DD said it right as much as everyone else doesn't like Kill. He recruited some great athletic talent (Lynch, Moore, Ashford, to name a few) and for that we thank him. He did leave the program in a good position for us to only get better and when we got Doeren that happened. DD has brought in some bigger (wisconsin type) O-Linemen, which we needed. IMO if Jerry was still here I don't think we would be 7-1 though, probably lose some of those closer games and Doeren has gotten us over that hump.

Back on the Laurence Holmes subject, it would be really nice if he gave us a good shout out on Sunday night when he hosts the sports show on channel 5. A few more wins and I see us getting some good TV time around the Chicagoland area, especially if NU starts losing.

(10-25-2012 12:52 PM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  

(10-25-2012 11:43 AM)thxjoenovak Wrote:  

(10-25-2012 11:01 AM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  

(10-25-2012 10:36 AM)niucyberdawg Wrote:  DD's replies to some interesting and different sorta Qs just cannot get much better.

I luv what he luvs about coaching.

This will annoy many of you. Props given to Kill for recruiting skill players. Take that all you detractors and whiners.

That changes none of the complaints we had about the guy.. if you can go back in a time machine and make him good at personnel decisions and time management, let me know. Otherwise nothing has changed.

Kill's a good guy, incredible work ethic, ran a clean program by all accounts, represented the school well, bad in game coach, struggles with clock mgmt., and terrible job judging his own personnel. These comments from DD don't change any of that.

If he and his assistants had themselves and the team properly prepared and not "wet the bed" in Detroit, we'd be gunning for our 3rd straight MACC and I would look at his tenure and departure in a much different light.

This revisionist history just isn't true. People were complaining about Kill the entire time he was here, on this very board. It's not hard to find evidence of this. He would have been winning in spite of himself, he had an obvious talent advantage. Winning when it mattered would have made it more palatable, sure, but it's not like people wouldn't have been bitching about his obvious mistakes as a coach.

You have to separate the result from the process.

Bitching on this board does not make the ***** legitimate. You were consistent and early with your criticisms of Kill. But, not everybody agree(s)(d) with you.

(10-25-2012 01:19 PM)sarasotahuskie Wrote:  

(10-25-2012 12:52 PM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  

(10-25-2012 11:43 AM)thxjoenovak Wrote:  

(10-25-2012 11:01 AM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  

(10-25-2012 10:36 AM)niucyberdawg Wrote:  DD's replies to some interesting and different sorta Qs just cannot get much better.

I luv what he luvs about coaching.

This will annoy many of you. Props given to Kill for recruiting skill players. Take that all you detractors and whiners.

That changes none of the complaints we had about the guy.. if you can go back in a time machine and make him good at personnel decisions and time management, let me know. Otherwise nothing has changed.

Kill's a good guy, incredible work ethic, ran a clean program by all accounts, represented the school well, bad in game coach, struggles with clock mgmt., and terrible job judging his own personnel. These comments from DD don't change any of that.

If he and his assistants had themselves and the team properly prepared and not "wet the bed" in Detroit, we'd be gunning for our 3rd straight MACC and I would look at his tenure and departure in a much different light.

This revisionist history just isn't true. People were complaining about Kill the entire time he was here, on this very board. It's not hard to find evidence of this. He would have been winning in spite of himself, he had an obvious talent advantage. Winning when it mattered would have made it more palatable, sure, but it's not like people wouldn't have been bitching about his obvious mistakes as a coach.

You have to separate the result from the process.

Bitching on this board does not make the ***** legitimate. You were consistent and early with your criticisms of Kill. But, not everybody agree(s)(d) with you.

I didn't say everybody agreed. Plenty of people apparently thought Me'Co Brown was good at football and that choosing Grady over Harnish was a rational decision, people who were satisfied with his clock management. Those people do exist, I understand that.

But I was not alone in my complaints, many people did have problems with Kill. I never said everyone did.

(10-25-2012 12:52 PM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  

(10-25-2012 11:43 AM)thxjoenovak Wrote:  

(10-25-2012 11:01 AM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  

(10-25-2012 10:36 AM)niucyberdawg Wrote:  DD's replies to some interesting and different sorta Qs just cannot get much better.

I luv what he luvs about coaching.

This will annoy many of you. Props given to Kill for recruiting skill players. Take that all you detractors and whiners.

That changes none of the complaints we had about the guy.. if you can go back in a time machine and make him good at personnel decisions and time management, let me know. Otherwise nothing has changed.

Kill's a good guy, incredible work ethic, ran a clean program by all accounts, represented the school well, bad in game coach, struggles with clock mgmt., and terrible job judging his own personnel. These comments from DD don't change any of that.

If he and his assistants had themselves and the team properly prepared and not "wet the bed" in Detroit, we'd be gunning for our 3rd straight MACC and I would look at his tenure and departure in a much different light.

This revisionist history just isn't true. People were complaining about Kill the entire time he was here, on this very board. It's not hard to find evidence of this. He would have been winning in spite of himself, he had an obvious talent advantage. Winning when it mattered would have made it more palatable, sure, but it's not like people wouldn't have been bitching about his obvious mistakes as a coach.

You have to separate the result from the process.

Did he make some bonehead in game decisions? Yes. And he was rightly criticized for them. But if you're saying that a different result on that night in Detroit wouldn't have made a difference in how NIU supporters will view him for all-time, then you're sadly mistaken.

Let's say, just for fun, that the 2010 Huskies beat Miami for the MAC Championship, the first for the program in 27 years. I guarantee you that Kill's legacy and his standing as a coach in the eyes and minds of every NIU fan would have been right up there with the best, such as Mallory and Novak. Regardless of the poor clock management, regardless of the questionable personnel decisions, regardless of everything else he did that annoyed people and garnered criticism, he would've been rembered as the man who led the greatest NIU team ever to a conference championship and a Top 25 ranking at the end of the season.

And had we beaten Miami, the reaction to his leaving for Minnesota 3 or 4 days later probably would've been something like, "I'm upset that he's leaving, but I understand, a coach like him wasn't going to stay around forever, and he deserves it because he won the MAC with a great team."

Unfortunately, that's not what happened. The team that stepped out onto the field in Detroit that night wasn't prepared to play despite being so much better than their opponents. Players have said that the atmosphere in the locker room was different going into and during the game. The loss ultimately came down to a dropped pass, a lucky bounce, and a terrible defensive call, but had the team been prepared as it had been the previous 3 games, Miami doesn't even come close to the Huskies.

That result forever destroyed any chance Kill had to coaching glory while he was here and THAT is the reason why everyone regards him as a lesser coach than Mallory, Pettibone, Novak, and Doeren.

I thought overall HWSNBN did a pretty good job but he mostly maintained the talent level. There were good players from both himself and Novak. That wouldn't be the case if he "rebuilt" the program, so I don't want to hear that anymore, it isn't true.

And I apologize for hijacking the thread again. Back to the topic, Holmes' show also strikes me as the perfect place for NIU people at the moment. Holmes is a laid back interviewer and asks considerate questions. You could tell that Doeren and Harnish both enjoyed talking with him.

(10-25-2012 01:29 PM)BarsemaBone2 Wrote:  

(10-25-2012 12:52 PM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  

(10-25-2012 11:43 AM)thxjoenovak Wrote:  

(10-25-2012 11:01 AM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  

(10-25-2012 10:36 AM)niucyberdawg Wrote:  DD's replies to some interesting and different sorta Qs just cannot get much better.

I luv what he luvs about coaching.

This will annoy many of you. Props given to Kill for recruiting skill players. Take that all you detractors and whiners.

That changes none of the complaints we had about the guy.. if you can go back in a time machine and make him good at personnel decisions and time management, let me know. Otherwise nothing has changed.

Kill's a good guy, incredible work ethic, ran a clean program by all accounts, represented the school well, bad in game coach, struggles with clock mgmt., and terrible job judging his own personnel. These comments from DD don't change any of that.

If he and his assistants had themselves and the team properly prepared and not "wet the bed" in Detroit, we'd be gunning for our 3rd straight MACC and I would look at his tenure and departure in a much different light.

This revisionist history just isn't true. People were complaining about Kill the entire time he was here, on this very board. It's not hard to find evidence of this. He would have been winning in spite of himself, he had an obvious talent advantage. Winning when it mattered would have made it more palatable, sure, but it's not like people wouldn't have been bitching about his obvious mistakes as a coach.

You have to separate the result from the process.

Did he make some bonehead in game decisions? Yes. And he was rightly criticized for them. But if you're saying that a different result on that night in Detroit wouldn't have made a difference in how NIU supporters will view him for all-time, then you're sadly mistaken.

Let's say, just for fun, that the 2010 Huskies beat Miami for the MAC Championship, the first for the program in 27 years. I guarantee you that Kill's legacy and his standing as a coach in the eyes and minds of every NIU fan would have been right up there with the best, such as Mallory and Novak. Regardless of the poor clock management, regardless of the questionable personnel decisions, regardless of everything else he did that annoyed people and garnered criticism, he would've been rembered as the man who led the greatest NIU team ever to a conference championship and a Top 25 ranking at the end of the season.

And had we beaten Miami, the reaction to his leaving for Minnesota 3 or 4 days later probably would've been something like, "I'm upset that he's leaving, but I understand, a coach like him wasn't going to stay around forever, and he deserves it because he won the MAC with a great team."

Unfortunately, that's not what happened. The team that stepped out onto the field in Detroit that night wasn't prepared to play despite being so much better than their opponents. Players have said that the atmosphere in the locker room was different going into and during the game. The loss ultimately came down to a dropped pass, a lucky bounce, and a terrible defensive call, but had the team been prepared as it had been the previous 3 games, Miami doesn't even come close to the Huskies.

That result forever destroyed any chance Kill had to coaching glory while he was here and THAT is the reason why everyone regards him as a lesser coach than Mallory, Pettibone, Novak, and Doeren.

Very well stated, and I could not agree more.

Of course, if he had won a MAC Championships people would care less about the negatives. But that wouldn't have changed the fact he had made plenty of mistakes in his time here, just as what Cybes said didn't change the issues he did have, which is the only point I was making here to begin with.

These What If's are silly though, if your'e going to go that route, you could say that about just about anyone.

(10-25-2012 02:02 PM)Dog Fan Wrote:  

(10-25-2012 01:29 PM)BarsemaBone2 Wrote:  Did he make some bonehead in game decisions? Yes. And he was rightly criticized for them. But if you're saying that a different result on that night in Detroit wouldn't have made a difference in how NIU supporters will view him for all-time, then you're sadly mistaken.

Let's say, just for fun, that the 2010 Huskies beat Miami for the MAC Championship, the first for the program in 27 years. I guarantee you that Kill's legacy and his standing as a coach in the eyes and minds of every NIU fan would have been right up there with the best, such as Mallory and Novak. Regardless of the poor clock management, regardless of the questionable personnel decisions, regardless of everything else he did that annoyed people and garnered criticism, he would've been rembered as the man who led the greatest NIU team ever to a conference championship and a Top 25 ranking at the end of the season.

And had we beaten Miami, the reaction to his leaving for Minnesota 3 or 4 days later probably would've been something like, "I'm upset that he's leaving, but I understand, a coach like him wasn't going to stay around forever, and he deserves it because he won the MAC with a great team."

Unfortunately, that's not what happened. The team that stepped out onto the field in Detroit that night wasn't prepared to play despite being so much better than their opponents. Players have said that the atmosphere in the locker room was different going into and during the game. The loss ultimately came down to a dropped pass, a lucky bounce, and a terrible defensive call, but had the team been prepared as it had been the previous 3 games, Miami doesn't even come close to the Huskies.

That result forever destroyed any chance Kill had to coaching glory while he was here and THAT is the reason why everyone regards him as a lesser coach than Mallory, Pettibone, Novak, and Doeren.

Very well stated, and I could not agree more.

Very well said.

(10-25-2012 02:22 PM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  Of course, if he had won a MAC Championships people would care less about the negatives. But that wouldn't have changed the fact he had made plenty of mistakes in his time here, just as what Cybes said didn't change the issues he did have, which is the only point I was making here to begin with.

These What If's are silly though, if your'e going to go that route, you could say that about just about anyone.

I agree on the first point. I also remember quite well the criticism of him on this board. Some of it was deserved. Some of it wasn't. I still would've thought he made some questionable coaching decisions during his time here even if we'd have won in Detroit.

But that one night, for most people, made THE difference in how they view Kill and his time here.

It also didn't help his legacy that Doeren won the MAC Championship last year with a team that wasn't as good as the 2010 team, and also beat an Ohio team that as far as I can tell was better than the Miami team Kill lost to the year before.

(10-25-2012 02:37 PM)BarsemaBone2 Wrote:  

(10-25-2012 02:22 PM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  Of course, if he had won a MAC Championships people would care less about the negatives. But that wouldn't have changed the fact he had made plenty of mistakes in his time here, just as what Cybes said didn't change the issues he did have, which is the only point I was making here to begin with.

These What If's are silly though, if your'e going to go that route, you could say that about just about anyone.

I agree on the first point. I also remember quite well the criticism of him on this board. Some of it was deserved. Some of it wasn't. I still would've thought he made some questionable coaching decisions during his time here even if we'd have won in Detroit.

But that one night, for most people, made THE difference in how they view Kill and his time here.

It also didn't help his legacy that Doeren won the MAC Championship last year with a team that wasn't as good as the 2010 team, and also beat an Ohio team that as far as I can tell was better than the Miami team Kill lost to the year before.

Again, absolutely correct. I have never experienced anything so devastating in sports as what happened that night. I have also never seen my wife so angry, saddened, and disgusted as that night. I have never been on a bus ride as quiet and morbid as the one back to the hotel. And, I still get nightmares from that game. Because of all that, it's very difficult for me to forget and forgive. Not when you've been so permanently scarred.

(10-25-2012 02:43 PM)Dog Fan Wrote:  I have never been on a bus ride as quiet and morbid as the one back to the hotel.

Yep. That was BRUTAL.

(10-25-2012 02:22 PM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  Of course, if he had won a MAC Championships people would care less about the negatives. But that wouldn't have changed the fact he had made plenty of mistakes in his time here, just as what Cybes said didn't change the issues he did have, which is the only point I was making here to begin with.

These What If's are silly though, if your'e going to go that route, you could say that about just about anyone.

Let me also say that I agree that one game normally should not affect how you view a coach or a player. Unfortunately, for that game, that result, and that it happened to team that good, will ultimately be Kill's legacy here.

And YET AGAIN, I've hijacked this thread. Apologies!!

Back to Laurence Holmes and how awesome he is!!

(10-25-2012 02:31 PM)huskiebob Wrote:  

(10-25-2012 02:02 PM)Dog Fan Wrote:  

(10-25-2012 01:29 PM)BarsemaBone2 Wrote:  Did he make some bonehead in game decisions? Yes. And he was rightly criticized for them. But if you're saying that a different result on that night in Detroit wouldn't have made a difference in how NIU supporters will view him for all-time, then you're sadly mistaken.

Let's say, just for fun, that the 2010 Huskies beat Miami for the MAC Championship, the first for the program in 27 years. I guarantee you that Kill's legacy and his standing as a coach in the eyes and minds of every NIU fan would have been right up there with the best, such as Mallory and Novak. Regardless of the poor clock management, regardless of the questionable personnel decisions, regardless of everything else he did that annoyed people and garnered criticism, he would've been rembered as the man who led the greatest NIU team ever to a conference championship and a Top 25 ranking at the end of the season.

And had we beaten Miami, the reaction to his leaving for Minnesota 3 or 4 days later probably would've been something like, "I'm upset that he's leaving, but I understand, a coach like him wasn't going to stay around forever, and he deserves it because he won the MAC with a great team."

Unfortunately, that's not what happened. The team that stepped out onto the field in Detroit that night wasn't prepared to play despite being so much better than their opponents. Players have said that the atmosphere in the locker room was different going into and during the game. The loss ultimately came down to a dropped pass, a lucky bounce, and a terrible defensive call, but had the team been prepared as it had been the previous 3 games, Miami doesn't even come close to the Huskies.

That result forever destroyed any chance Kill had to coaching glory while he was here and THAT is the reason why everyone regards him as a lesser coach than Mallory, Pettibone, Novak, and Doeren.

Very well stated, and I could not agree more.

Very well said.

Awww, what's one more....

(10-25-2012 02:56 PM)BarsemaBone2 Wrote:  And YET AGAIN, I've hijacked this thread. Apologies!!

Back to Laurence Holmes and how awesome he is!!

Props to Laurence.

(10-25-2012 02:43 PM)Dog Fan Wrote:  

(10-25-2012 02:37 PM)BarsemaBone2 Wrote:  

(10-25-2012 02:22 PM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  Of course, if he had won a MAC Championships people would care less about the negatives. But that wouldn't have changed the fact he had made plenty of mistakes in his time here, just as what Cybes said didn't change the issues he did have, which is the only point I was making here to begin with.

These What If's are silly though, if your'e going to go that route, you could say that about just about anyone.

I agree on the first point. I also remember quite well the criticism of him on this board. Some of it was deserved. Some of it wasn't. I still would've thought he made some questionable coaching decisions during his time here even if we'd have won in Detroit.

But that one night, for most people, made THE difference in how they view Kill and his time here.

It also didn't help his legacy that Doeren won the MAC Championship last year with a team that wasn't as good as the 2010 team, and also beat an Ohio team that as far as I can tell was better than the Miami team Kill lost to the year before.

Again, absolutely correct. I have never experienced anything so devastating in sports as what happened that night. I have also never seen my wife so angry, saddened, and disgusted as that night. I have never been on a bus ride as quiet and morbid as the one back to the hotel. And, I still get nightmares from that game. Because of all that, it's very difficult for me to forget and forgive. Not when you've been so permanently scarred.

I took the bus trip package and when we all got back to the bus we were all in shock, everyone said that wasn't the team we'd been watching all year long. A long bus ride back. I was glad I hadn't made the trip in 2005, I was mad enough watching that one unfold on TV.

Also, the way he left before the bowl game, how all that went down wasn't good. But the biggest thing was the MACC.

(10-25-2012 03:28 PM)thxjoenovak Wrote:  

(10-25-2012 02:31 PM)huskiebob Wrote:  

(10-25-2012 02:02 PM)Dog Fan Wrote:  

(10-25-2012 01:29 PM)BarsemaBone2 Wrote:  Did he make some bonehead in game decisions? Yes. And he was rightly criticized for them. But if you're saying that a different result on that night in Detroit wouldn't have made a difference in how NIU supporters will view him for all-time, then you're sadly mistaken.

Let's say, just for fun, that the 2010 Huskies beat Miami for the MAC Championship, the first for the program in 27 years. I guarantee you that Kill's legacy and his standing as a coach in the eyes and minds of every NIU fan would have been right up there with the best, such as Mallory and Novak. Regardless of the poor clock management, regardless of the questionable personnel decisions, regardless of everything else he did that annoyed people and garnered criticism, he would've been rembered as the man who led the greatest NIU team ever to a conference championship and a Top 25 ranking at the end of the season.

And had we beaten Miami, the reaction to his leaving for Minnesota 3 or 4 days later probably would've been something like, "I'm upset that he's leaving, but I understand, a coach like him wasn't going to stay around forever, and he deserves it because he won the MAC with a great team."

Unfortunately, that's not what happened. The team that stepped out onto the field in Detroit that night wasn't prepared to play despite being so much better than their opponents. Players have said that the atmosphere in the locker room was different going into and during the game. The loss ultimately came down to a dropped pass, a lucky bounce, and a terrible defensive call, but had the team been prepared as it had been the previous 3 games, Miami doesn't even come close to the Huskies.

That result forever destroyed any chance Kill had to coaching glory while he was here and THAT is the reason why everyone regards him as a lesser coach than Mallory, Pettibone, Novak, and Doeren.

Very well stated, and I could not agree more.

Very well said.

Awww, what's one more....

me too... +infinity

This is the kind of intelligent debate/discussion I appreciate on this board. If you know who (WD) was still here, this subject would have been turned into a name calling b!tch session a long time ago.

Thanks for all the great posts everyone!

(10-25-2012 04:18 PM)Huskie359 Wrote:  

(10-25-2012 03:28 PM)thxjoenovak Wrote:  

(10-25-2012 02:31 PM)huskiebob Wrote:  

(10-25-2012 02:02 PM)Dog Fan Wrote:  

(10-25-2012 01:29 PM)BarsemaBone2 Wrote:  Did he make some bonehead in game decisions? Yes. And he was rightly criticized for them. But if you're saying that a different result on that night in Detroit wouldn't have made a difference in how NIU supporters will view him for all-time, then you're sadly mistaken.

Let's say, just for fun, that the 2010 Huskies beat Miami for the MAC Championship, the first for the program in 27 years. I guarantee you that Kill's legacy and his standing as a coach in the eyes and minds of every NIU fan would have been right up there with the best, such as Mallory and Novak. Regardless of the poor clock management, regardless of the questionable personnel decisions, regardless of everything else he did that annoyed people and garnered criticism, he would've been rembered as the man who led the greatest NIU team ever to a conference championship and a Top 25 ranking at the end of the season.

And had we beaten Miami, the reaction to his leaving for Minnesota 3 or 4 days later probably would've been something like, "I'm upset that he's leaving, but I understand, a coach like him wasn't going to stay around forever, and he deserves it because he won the MAC with a great team."

Unfortunately, that's not what happened. The team that stepped out onto the field in Detroit that night wasn't prepared to play despite being so much better than their opponents. Players have said that the atmosphere in the locker room was different going into and during the game. The loss ultimately came down to a dropped pass, a lucky bounce, and a terrible defensive call, but had the team been prepared as it had been the previous 3 games, Miami doesn't even come close to the Huskies.

That result forever destroyed any chance Kill had to coaching glory while he was here and THAT is the reason why everyone regards him as a lesser coach than Mallory, Pettibone, Novak, and Doeren.

Very well stated, and I could not agree more.

Very well said.

Awww, what's one more....

me too... +infinity

plus me! Great post.