The unofficial online home for fans of the Kent State University Golden Flashes. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

Today in some downtime I was thinking about this game (oh, here I go on my soapbox). I know with our recent history against BCS conference teams, (sans Iowa State) combined with the fact that RU is 7-0 and ranked #15 in the nation, it's easy to understand why I would think we really don't have a chance to win this game (keeping in mind I try to be a realist). Then I started to believe otherwise. Sort of like our players believe. The mentality has changed around here. With all due respect to Rutgers, they haven't beaten anyone that is worth a crap. If this was the second game of our season and we were coming off a win against Towson and not exactly sure that we had turned the corner, I could envision us laying an egg. Now, 6 weeks later, I can't see it.

I am not saying we will win, and I am sure as hell not saying this will be an easy game. What I am saying is, I expect us to be competitive and have a chance down the stretch to make plays and win the game. We have the play makers on both sides of the ball, have excellent special teams, and have kickers and punters who are performing. I know the players and coaches sure as hell expect us to go out there and execute the game plan and come home winners. I am proud of this team and what Coach Hazell has built, and I am looking forward to seeing our program grow some more on Saturday......with a win or from the growing pains of a loss. The aforementioned would certainly be sweeter!

(10-23-2012 10:41 PM)dannyb73 Wrote:  Today in some downtime I was thinking about this game (oh, here I go on my soapbox). I know with our recent history against BCS conference teams, (sans Iowa State) combined with the fact that RU is 7-0 and ranked #15 in the nation, it's easy to understand why I would think we really don't have a chance to win this game (keeping in mind I try to be a realist). Then I started to believe otherwise. Sort of like our players believe. The mentality has changed around here. With all due respect to Rutgers, they haven't beaten anyone that is worth a crap. If this was the second game of our season and we were coming off a win against Towson and not exactly sure that we had turned the corner, I could envision us laying an egg. Now, 6 weeks later, I can't see it.

I am not saying we will win, and I am sure as hell not saying this will be an easy game. What I am saying is, I expect us to be competitive and have a chance down the stretch to make plays and win the game. We have the play makers on both sides of the ball, have excellent special teams, and have kickers and punters who are performing. I know the players and coaches sure as hell expect us to go out there and execute the game plan and come home winners. I am proud of this team and what Coach Hazell has built, and I am looking forward to seeing our program grow some more on Saturday......with a win or from the growing pains of a loss. The aforementioned would certainly be sweeter!

I understand where you're coming from, but that is the same thing every Rutgers' opponent has said so far this season until... Rutgers brought back 18 starters from a team that went 9-4 and that's part of the reason. Also, they have won 5 straight bowl games, so is that part of the problem? Rutgers can't help what other teams lack on the field. Rutgers has won every game by double digit and that's not by accident. A lot of people don't follow them, so it's easy to overlook, but the facts show Rutgers has had several recruiting classes ranked high compared to most in the nation. They are either just outside of the top 25 or in it over the last few years. What you see now is the results of this recruiting.

I saw another poster say the offense is nothing because it's ranked low, but a lot of that has to do with playing it close to the vest waiting for the opponent to make the mistake. In most cases that has happened and Rutgers hasn't been force to open up the offense. In the case of Arkansas and Temple, Rutgers offense exploded in a short time to put away the opponent, then went back into a shell. In both cases Rutgers' offense scored 35 points within 20 minutes during those games. They can score when pushed, but they prefer to let the defense, ranked nationally, control the game. Plus, Rutgers special teams are ranked nationally and known to block kicks on a regular.

Wow, this year's team and coach have won five straight bowl games. That's impressive! How old are your players anyway?

KSU on the other hand, has a second year coach and uses a bunch of different players this year than in previous years.

I'm should learn from Rutgers fans because I'm sure none of them would dismiss our record and whom we played.

Looking forward to seeing the Flashes and the Knights(?) play Saturday. (Just occurred to me that I don't know what their mascot is. I do know that it is somewhere in New Jersey, though! And while I lived in Maryland for a few years, about all I know about NJ is that it is mostly a suburb of Philadelphia and NYC with some farms and coast elsewhere.)

I posted this comment several years ago before one of the Boston College games and now it seems as good a time as any to bring it back up, that is,

"Sooner or later and as improbable as it might seem, we are going to win one these ranked OOC games".

The way I figure it might as well be this week.

Go Flashes

(10-22-2012 03:26 PM)goflashes04 Wrote:  From the star ledger (NJ.com)

http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/index....mic_o.html

Read through the comments at the end of the article and the general consensus from the RU folk is we're a one man show (Dri Archer) on offense. Looking forward to them meeting the bigger/stronger half of the two headed monster that lurks in our backfield in Mr. Durham lol

(10-24-2012 07:33 AM)axeme Wrote:  Just occurred to me that I don't know what their mascot is.

Rutgers mascot.

(10-24-2012 06:30 AM)cubuffsdoug Wrote:  

(10-23-2012 10:41 PM)dannyb73 Wrote:  Today in some downtime I was thinking about this game (oh, here I go on my soapbox). I know with our recent history against BCS conference teams, (sans Iowa State) combined with the fact that RU is 7-0 and ranked #15 in the nation, it's easy to understand why I would think we really don't have a chance to win this game (keeping in mind I try to be a realist). Then I started to believe otherwise. Sort of like our players believe. The mentality has changed around here. With all due respect to Rutgers, they haven't beaten anyone that is worth a crap. If this was the second game of our season and we were coming off a win against Towson and not exactly sure that we had turned the corner, I could envision us laying an egg. Now, 6 weeks later, I can't see it.

I am not saying we will win, and I am sure as hell not saying this will be an easy game. What I am saying is, I expect us to be competitive and have a chance down the stretch to make plays and win the game. We have the play makers on both sides of the ball, have excellent special teams, and have kickers and punters who are performing. I know the players and coaches sure as hell expect us to go out there and execute the game plan and come home winners. I am proud of this team and what Coach Hazell has built, and I am looking forward to seeing our program grow some more on Saturday......with a win or from the growing pains of a loss. The aforementioned would certainly be sweeter!

I understand where you're coming from, but that is the same thing every Rutgers' opponent has said so far this season until... Rutgers brought back 18 starters from a team that went 9-4 and that's part of the reason. Also, they have won 5 straight bowl games, so is that part of the problem? Rutgers can't help what other teams lack on the field. Rutgers has won every game by double digit and that's not by accident. A lot of people don't follow them, so it's easy to overlook, but the facts show Rutgers has had several recruiting classes ranked high compared to most in the nation. They are either just outside of the top 25 or in it over the last few years. What you see now is the results of this recruiting.

I saw another poster say the offense is nothing because it's ranked low, but a lot of that has to do with playing it close to the vest waiting for the opponent to make the mistake. In most cases that has happened and Rutgers hasn't been force to open up the offense. In the case of Arkansas and Temple, Rutgers offense exploded in a short time to put away the opponent, then went back into a shell. In both cases Rutgers' offense scored 35 points within 20 minutes during those games. They can score when pushed, but they prefer to let the defense, ranked nationally, control the game. Plus, Rutgers special teams are ranked nationally and known to block kicks on a regular.

I did use the phrase, "with all due respect."

Seriously though, I am not dissing RU by any means. There is no doubt your program is not the RU of old. We would love to have 5 straight bowl games under our belt, let alone 5 straight bowl wins. What I am saying however, is that I expect this game to be close. Your coaches philosophy of being in a shell as you call it, will only allow us to get some stops and get off the field. The same way you wait on your opponents to make mistakes, we could make the same argument. I think I read where RU has a high +/- in the turnover game and KSU is also doing well in that regard being tied for 2nd in the nation at +14.

Lastly, if your team believes like your fans that we are a one man show, good luck. Not only are we not a one man show, but nobody has come close to stopping that "one man."

Another Rutgers fan here: Good luck to you folk (though not TOO much luck, LOL!). For those coming to the game, we all hope you have a great expereince,except for the result on the scoreboard, of course.

See this link to a post I made on the Rutghers Rivals Message Board - a regular feature I write up: http://rutgers.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fi...88&style=2

Prodn this long post - and I hope you take in the spirit of fun analysis, even if from the Rutgers perspective.

Kent State is having a wonderful seaosn, so far. And I am certain Cincy fams did not think Toledo could beat them last week - nor did Penn State fams think Ohio could beat them. I will admit the same: I do not think Kent St WILL beat RU (not CANNOT, but WILL not).

I know some of you point out the quality of your big bruising running back, but frankly, seeing how RU has played defense (both last seaosn, and this seaosn), he does not worry me as much. Sure, he might get some yards. If a team tries hard enough, and forces things enough, it can often gain some yards. Temple had a terrific running back, who had been Boston College's career leader in trushing yards (3600 yards over 3 years), transferred to Temple, and though had been hurt earlier in the year, came into last week;s game against RU with back to back 130-yard rushing games (against USF and UConn). He rushed for 80 yards against RU.

I do not fear the bruiser, not with RU's defense. I DO fear the impact of Dri Archer. A real speed demon can make a defense pay for even the SLIGHTEST mistake, the slightest crease. RU's defense is MUCH faster than any defens Kent St. has played against this year - by a significant margin also. But even a fast defnens if it misses an assignment, can give up a big play ... IF the opposing team has a speedy enough guy to exploit that error. Kent State does have such a player.

Without a Dri Archer, I would be surprised if Kent State scored more than 10 points agianst RU - this despite your high scoring offense. Why? Look at the defenses Kent State has played against: The best defnese you have faced is Western Michigan, who has not given up fewer than 21 points to a full-fledged FBS program this season, and has given up 4 TD's or better 4 times.

But WITH a Dri Archer ... I could see a return for a TD, PLUS enough big plays even if RU's defense plays well, to at leats improve Kent St.'s field position enough so that Kent St. does not have to drive the length of the field in small chunks in order to score. I could easily see Kent St scoring 17 or 21 points against RU - which would be the most other than Arkansas.

But, how are you going to defend against RU's improving offense? RU's top 4 recievers, other than its running back, are 6'6" 220 (and probably faster than any player on Kent State other than Archer), 6'4" 220, 6'3" 220 (with 16 career TD recpetions) and 6'6"250 (TE who disdains tacklers). RU also has a very good possession reciever who is merely 6'0". RU's running back is a good reciever as well - and arguably the best or 2nd best running back in the Big East (only a sophomore - good quickness, great ability to cut, but also powerful running the ball). The QB is just a sophomore, but has not made mistakes, has not been pressured this year, and has just 3 interceptions while throwing for 15 TD's - and 1500 yards, this despite a focus in the running game.

Also, responding to one other comment, about how Rutgers has not beaten any team that is any good. It is true that RU's schedule is not that strong - luck of the draw (USF and UConn are usually better, and Arkansas WAS ranked #8 pre-seaosn, but has disappointed).

But RU's schedule is still better than Kent State's schedule, I believe. Understanding that scores are NOT, NOT, NOT transitive, please forgive me for using some transitive scores, as we look at comparative cases:

1) Arkansas: RU beat Arkansas 35-26, AT Arkansas. Arkansas beat Kentucky 49-7 - in 3 quarters (game called due to lightnening). Kentucky beat Kent St 41-14. RU played Arkansas WiTH Arkansas' NFL caliber QB ... who they lost in the 2nd quarter against Louisina-Monroe, leading 28-3 at the time he was hurt ... they ended up losing that game 34-31 in OT. And they did not have that starting QB when they got crushed by Alabama. My point is that Arkansas is a better team than their 3-4 record would indicate, though not a Top 25 team regardless.

2) Tulane (RU played) and Army (Kent St played): Figure equivalently bad teams.

3) Syracuse: RU beat 23-15, though the game was not really that close in the 2nd half. Syracuse is 3-4, not great ... but with losses to USC (by 13), a 6-2 Northwestern team (by 1 point), and a 4-3 Minnesota team on the road (by 7 points). And they beat Pitt (who beat Va. Tech) and UConn (who I will get to). Kent St has not played any team as good as Syracuse. Maybe, you would argue Ball St (5-3). But Ball St, though it beat USF (a Big East team), has not beaten anyone with a winning record. It did play a good Clemson team - but got crushed, whiel Syracuse, though it lost to good teams, lost all those games in close games - 2 of them at the end of the game.

4) UConn - an interesting game. UConn is 2-5 this year, and is struggling, and cannot be considered a good team. yet they beat Maryland on the road, and lost by 3 points ot NC State - solid ACC teams. UConn DID lose to Western Michigan, in a close game - to the MAC's credit. And they beat Buffalo - but not by as much as Kent St did. I would say Kent Sttae is DEFINITELY better than UConn ... but RU absolutely DOMINATED UConn, without even really trying to do anything offensively (much to the frustration of RU fans). RU only scored 19 points, but kept running the ball only between the tackles, and was pretty conservstivem especially once RU got the lead 13 to 3 - at that point, knowing UConn did not have a playmaker who could beat RU with one play (or even score on one play), RU basically stopped passing completely (and that was in the 3rd quarter).


I would say Kent St. is a fine team, having a fine year. I would add that Kent St. MIGHT be the 3rd best team RU has faced this season, behind Arkansas and Syracuse (though USF, despite its struggles onl lost to Florida State by 13, and Temple WAS a MAC team that went 9-4 last year in the MAC, including beating Kent State easily).

I would also say that UNLIKE Syracuse, UConn or Temple, Kent State has a major playmaker that could ascore RU more than once - but unlike Syracuse does not have the defense Syracuse has, or the high overall quality of offense Arkansas has.

I look forward to seeing Archer play - I think much of the fun of college football is seeing players like him perform well. But unless Rutgers makes a LOT of mistakes, I would expect RU to win the game.

I think Montel Harris is a 'major playmaker', but okay. Matt Brown is too, but he's hurt.

(10-24-2012 01:30 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  I think Montel Harris is a 'major playmaker', but okay. Matt Brown is too, but he's hurt.

Harris is a great RB, but he's not as dynamic as Archer is. Though I would be very happy if we contained Archer as well as we contained Harris.

While Kent St is certainly not a one man show, if Archer is removed from the equation they will have a much harder time putting points on the board. Archer and Cortez have accounted for 152 of the team's 236 points (64%). Rutgers needs to somehow manage to keep Archer off the scoreboard and limit his returns to keep Kent St out of FG range. Easier said than done, to be sure.

Rutgers defensive gameplan has been to stuff the run and force teams to pass, at which point our secondary starts hunting for INTs. The offensive gameplan is to run the ball and run the clock, avoiding mistakes and keeping the opponent's defense on the field so that it wears down as the game progresses. If behind, we open up the passing attack and use our bigger receivers to exploit defensive mismatches. On special teams, we gun for kick blocks and hope for returnable kickoffs.

It's fairly straightforward and not flashy. We've been very strong coming out of the half, outscoring opponents 69-3 in the third quarter.

For Kent St to win (or be competitive), you'll really need to find ways to get Archer in space - whether that's on kickoff returns, in the run game, or as a receiver. You'll also need to find ways to shut down our rushing attack and hope our passing game gets out of rhythm.

Looking forward to the game. We're really hoping for a sell out crowd for Homecoming.

^^^^^^^^
I suppose there's some irony in the fact we seem to have more Knights fans on our board than Flashes fans. Our football fans have often been outdrawn at our home games by visiting fans, making us one of the worst fan bases in college athletics.

(10-24-2012 03:35 PM)JimJoyce Wrote:  ^^^^^^^^
I suppose there's some irony in the fact we seem to have more Knights fans on our board than Flashes fans. Our football fans have often been outdrawn at our home games by visiting fans, making us one of the worst fan bases in college athletics.

Sad but true. Rutgers football didn't have many fans in their dark years, either. Hopefully, success will attract more followers for KSU.

If I want the Flashes to believe they can win Saturday, I have to believe they can win. Rutgers will be our toughest opponent by far. We have to play at our best and need some breaks. But, anything can happen and at some point in the life of a program, usually does. We are due.

(10-24-2012 09:00 AM)shakermaker05 Wrote:  

(10-22-2012 03:26 PM)goflashes04 Wrote:  From the star ledger (NJ.com)

http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/index....mic_o.html

Read through the comments at the end of the article and the general consensus from the RU folk is we're a one man show (Dri Archer) on offense. Looking forward to them meeting the bigger/stronger half of the two headed monster that lurks in our backfield in Mr. Durham lol

Don't take anything from nj.com as a true indicator of what RU fans think of Kent St. That site is a sewer.

Rank of Rutgers Opp. scoring Off.=120,113,81,68,83,88,FCS
Rank of Rutgers Opp. Rush Off.= 120,116,104,80,75,60,FCS (60 and 75 have running QBs, which help bump them up, and 60 is Temple, who didn't have Matt Brown)

Yes our schedule may be a bit weaker than some of the teams they have faced, but they have yet to face a top 68 scoring offense, or a top 75 run offense that has their top weapons. We have yet to face a rush defense higher than 55 though. We are 27th in running and 39th in scoring. Any defense that holds its opponents to 11 points and 70 rushing yards a game is obviously good, but I'm curious to see what and offense like this will do. They have yet to face a RB over 215, Trayion is listed at 260, or one with the speed of Dri. Both teams are top 5 in turnover margin. We are 1&2 in kickoff return average, and near the top in the country in nearly every special teams category. So what this will come down to is whether they can stop a much better offense and running attack, whether or not we can keep there weaker offense from scoring, and who wins the turnover and special teams battle.

I believe this will be a one score game, but couldn't even guess who will come out on top, although I know who I want to.

(10-24-2012 09:17 PM)naeskent77 Wrote:  Rank of Rutgers Opp. scoring Off.=120,113,81,68,83,88,FCS
Rank of Rutgers Opp. Rush Off.= 120,116,104,80,75,60,FCS (60 and 75 have running QBs, which help bump them up, and 60 is Temple, who didn't have Matt Brown)

Yes our schedule may be a bit weaker than some of the teams they have faced, but they have yet to face a top 68 scoring offense, or a top 75 run offense that has their top weapons. We have yet to face a rush defense higher than 55 though. We are 27th in running and 39th in scoring. Any defense that holds its opponents to 11 points and 70 rushing yards a game is obviously good, but I'm curious to see what and offense like this will do. They have yet to face a RB over 215, Trayion is listed at 260, or one with the speed of Dri. Both teams are top 5 in turnover margin. We are 1&2 in kickoff return average, and near the top in the country in nearly every special teams category. So what this will come down to is whether they can stop a much better offense and running attack, whether or not we can keep there weaker offense from scoring, and who wins the turnover and special teams battle.

I believe this will be a one score game, but couldn't even guess who will come out on top, although I know who I want to.

You make several good and fair points here. If I may, let me respond:

1) RU defense meets the "eye" test. You really need to see RU's defense play ... you can SEE the speed, the assignment/gap control, the swarming, the hard hits. Stats aside, you can SEE it when you watch them.

2) While it is true that the teams RU has played do not have high ranked offenses, you also need to look at how much RU has held these teams BELOW their rushing averages. So, look at this, each team';s average rushing versus what RU held them to:

a) Tulane avg = 27 y/g (amazingly low - I have never heard of a number so low); Vs RU = 8 ... 3rd worst rushing performance

b) Howard (FCS team) = 205; Vs RU = 74 ... worst rushing performance

c) USF avg = 155; Vs RU = 95 ... 2nd worst rushing performance (other 5 games all over 125 yards, 3 over 175 yards)

d) Arkansas avg = 115; Vs RU = 73 ... 2nd worst rushing performance (worst was against Alabama - 53 yards)

e) UConn avg = 87; vs RU = 53

f) Syracuse avg = 145; Vs RU = 62; worst rushing perfroamnce by FAR (next worse was 116 yards

g) Temple avg = 167 (but 200+ prior 2 games, with Harris back from injury); Vs RU = 118

3) RU's defense HAS allowed some passing yards this season - much to the chagrin of SOME RU fans, and to the chagrin of the RU secondary. BUT ... most of those yards came in the 2nd half, after RU had completely taken away the running game, and many of those 2nd half passing yards came in the 4th quarter, with the opponent down 2 scores, and being REQUIRED to pass. Also, though yards were gained, they were gained inefficiently, with low completion rates, and high interception rates ... RU has been VERY productive with interceptions, forcing their opponents into mistakes.

4) Regarding the size of your starting TB ... sure he is big, but Montel Harris of Temple, for one, is REALLY good: 3600 yards rushing in 3 years at Boston College, and though he was hurt early this year at Temple, the 2 games prior to the RU game he was healthy, and ran for 150 yards and 130 yards, respectively. It is more important how good Kent St.'s OL is, relative to RU's front 7. RU's front 7 has been really good, especially against the run.

We shall see.

"So what this will come down to is whether they can stop a much better offense and running attack, whether or not we can keep there weaker offense from scoring, and who wins the turnover and special teams battle."

Kent St is certainly the best rushing attack we have faced this year, and will be a good test of our rushing defense. While I'm confident that our swarming defense will be enough to slow down Durham, I am worried that a missed assignment or two could spring Archer for huge gains.

However, I don't know if I'd characterize our offense as "weaker" in the grand scheme of things. Rutgers' coaching philosophy has been to only score what is needed, and then to fall into a clock-killing base package. When the standard vanilla offense puts points on the board, it's unlikely that we'll ever look to stretch the field. The coaching staff sees no need to risk a turnover or to stop the clock on an incompletion by airing it out unnecessarily. However, when the basic vanilla offense has failed to secure a lead by halftime, the coaches turn the passing attack loose and Rutgers has scored in bunches. Because of this, our total offensive numbers have been lower - but our pass efficiency has been fairly high (32nd).

Rutgers is one of the slowest paced offenses you'll see. I ran some numbers before the Temple game, and Rutgers had been running fewer plays per minute of possession than all but just a handful of programs (such as Florida, Alabama, and Louisville). We like to take the air out of the ball whenever possible and shorten the game, limiting the time our opponents have the ball. That isn't to say that we can't crank up the pace and throw the ball down the field - we just haven't needed to against largely weaker opposition (we've done it twice, against Arkansas and Temple).

Kent St's defensive numbers haven't been great this year, ranking below 60th in most categories other than scoring defense (53rd) and 3rd down conversion defense (42nd). On top of that, it hasn't been against strong offenses. 79th in pass defense against an average of 79th in pass offense, 65th in pass efficiency defense against an average of 95th in pass efficiency offense, etc. Meanwhile, Rutgers' offensive numbers have been against teams whose defenses have ranked in the upper half of the nation on average in most categories.

If Rutgers can move the ball on the ground and eat up clock, we will - and it will be a low scoring game. If Rutgers struggles to move the ball on the ground (or if we fall behind), we'll turn to the passing attack - and it will likely be a higher scoring game. Either way, the coaches' goal is to get a two possession lead and then slow things down and force our opponents to beat our defense.

Archer has the potential to change the dynamic of the game single handedly. Getting loose for a couple of big runs, or long TDs, completely negates Rutgers' clock-killing methodology. It also allows Kent St to avoid passing the ball too much. Getting loose for some big kick returns would put Rutgers on a short field on defense and long fields for offense, which puts a lot more pressure on both offense and defense. If our gameplan manages to take him out of the game, Rutgers wins. If we aren't able to contain him, it could get very interesting.

I'm really happy that Kent St is having such a good year, though. Before the season, this game was mostly overlooked as just another blah home game - but with your success so far, it has become one of our more interesting home contests (at least for me).

If you don't mind my asking, what has Kent State's strategy been in most games, offensively and defensively? I know that Archer is the most productive player on the team, and that your kicker is pretty solid, but not a lot about what you do stylistically. From the numbers it seems like a fairly heavy rush offense (running about 60% of the time), with a thunder-and-lightning combo of Durham and Archer - but is that it? What are the sorts of things you feel the team is capable of, but hasn't really shown off this year? Any tendencies we should be looking for?

(10-25-2012 11:46 AM)RUChoppin Wrote:  If you don't mind my asking, what has Kent State's strategy been in most games, offensively and defensively? I know that Archer is the most productive player on the team, and that your kicker is pretty solid, but not a lot about what you do stylistically. From the numbers it seems like a fairly heavy rush offense (running about 60% of the time), with a thunder-and-lightning combo of Durham and Archer - but is that it? What are the sorts of things you feel the team is capable of, but hasn't really shown off this year? Any tendencies we should be looking for?

You really do not want to know. If I told you the answers you are looking for, I would have to have you wasted. Understand?

I shouldn't have said a weaker offense, I just meant you really don't rely on it much with your defense. It seems you try to control the ball more like you said with your clock killing. Fewer plays for both teams likely means the team with the best defense will win, and in your case, it will be very often.

No fan perspective at all on Kent St's usual offensive/defensive philosophy?