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More Romney DOUBLE talk
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Redwingtom Offline
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Post: #41
RE: More Romney DOUBLE talk
(10-15-2012 04:41 PM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  Your portrayal of his tax plan is painfully dishonest. Cutting rates and closing loopholes for the rich is what he wants to do. Their overall tax burden won't go down. He has said that hundreds of times.

And you believe him I presume? 03-lmfao
10-15-2012 04:47 PM
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Ninerfan1 Offline
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Post: #42
More Romney DOUBLE talk
(10-15-2012 04:45 PM)dcCid Wrote:  
(10-15-2012 04:41 PM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  Your portrayal of his tax plan is painfully dishonest. Cutting rates and closing loopholes for the rich is what he wants to do. Their overall tax burden won't go down. He has said that hundreds of times.

NO - he has just said that recently. Even his own campaign site doe snot say it.

He has said tons of times. It was talked about in both debates. That is his plan and it does not lower the burden for the wealthy.
10-15-2012 04:59 PM
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Ninerfan1 Offline
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Post: #43
More Romney DOUBLE talk
(10-15-2012 04:47 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(10-15-2012 04:41 PM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  Your portrayal of his tax plan is painfully dishonest. Cutting rates and closing loopholes for the rich is what he wants to do. Their overall tax burden won't go down. He has said that hundreds of times.

And you believe him I presume? 03-lmfao

Yes. Unlike your messiah Romney hasn't enacted policies that are direct opposites of what he said he would do. Being the Obama butt boy you are you just bend over and say thank you sire may I have another.
10-15-2012 05:01 PM
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I'mMoreAwesomeThanYou Offline
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Post: #44
RE: More Romney DOUBLE talk
(10-15-2012 05:01 PM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  
(10-15-2012 04:47 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(10-15-2012 04:41 PM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  Your portrayal of his tax plan is painfully dishonest. Cutting rates and closing loopholes for the rich is what he wants to do. Their overall tax burden won't go down. He has said that hundreds of times.

And you believe him I presume? 03-lmfao

Yes. Unlike your messiah Romney hasn't enacted policies that are direct opposites of what he said he would do. Being the Obama butt boy you are you just bend over and say thank you sire may I have another.

Tom, Max, and Robert are Obama fluffers. FACT.
10-15-2012 05:26 PM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #45
RE: More Romney DOUBLE talk
(10-15-2012 09:03 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  What's unfortunate to me is that nothing will happen to this. The 15% capital gains tax is written in stone. The stock market is too dependent upon it now. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Even if Obama wins you won't see it change. Yes it will work people up. The right does the same thing on their pet peeves. This line of attack will be successful but it's just part of the Potomac Two Step. Our leaders are choosen by 10% of the electorate that starts paying attention now.

You realize that Clinton lowered capital gains by more than Bush did, right? The point is that Capital Gains aren't really set by us at all. They're set by our relative "worth" vis a vis other countries. Our wages are generally higher as are our costs of compliance. We have a lot to offer, but we must be competitive on an AFTER tax basis to attract investment. I don't disagree that we might be able to adjust the rate up somewhat, but Clinton thought 20% was the right level... so we're not talking big changes.

(10-15-2012 10:21 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Honest question.

Were some accounting tricks utilized that kept the two wars out of the equation?

Sure, but so were tricks used by Clinton to make the "projected surplus" work. He cancelled issuance of the long bond and replaced it with t-bills out to 3 years. The surplus was based on being able to continually refinance some of that debt for 30 years without an appreciable decline in growth or rise in inflation. Bush inherited a virtually flat yield curve as a result, which created a disincentive to invest in long term assets... hence balloons and adjustable rate mortgages that contributed to the problems.

I'm not using this to outright blame Clinton for anything... I'm merely pointing out that there are often bad consequences of ideas that appear at the time to be good when you start playing with the numbers. It always fascinated me that the government REQUIRES pensions and banks to monitor their interest rate risk as valued by their asset/liability mismatch... and even municipalities... but the government itself has no such requirement. I mean, doesn't it make sense, if you want to borrow money to fund a war you expect to last 3 years, that you issue 3 year debt against it? If you expect it to be perpetual, that you issue 30 year debt against it? If you don't, you're subject to manipulation.
10-15-2012 05:49 PM
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firmbizzle Offline
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Post: #46
RE: More Romney DOUBLE talk
(10-15-2012 05:01 PM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  
(10-15-2012 04:47 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(10-15-2012 04:41 PM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  Your portrayal of his tax plan is painfully dishonest. Cutting rates and closing loopholes for the rich is what he wants to do. Their overall tax burden won't go down. He has said that hundreds of times.

And you believe him I presume? 03-lmfao

Yes. Unlike your messiah Romney hasn't enacted policies that are direct opposites of what he said he would do. Being the Obama butt boy you are you just bend over and say thank you sire may I have another.

Does Romney even remember what he said he'd do? MF'er has taken ever position under the sun.
10-15-2012 08:17 PM
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firmbizzle Offline
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Post: #47
RE: More Romney DOUBLE talk
(10-15-2012 01:32 PM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  
(10-15-2012 12:44 PM)firmbizzle Wrote:  
(10-15-2012 11:29 AM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  The financial crisis really isn't fair to include as none of the policies we're discussing had anything to do with it.

The financial crisis took a hit on revenue, but look at those expenditures.

Irrelevant to the discussion we are having. Those expenditures weren't constants. TARP wouldn't have happened had it not been for the financial crisis. So you can't include that. The huge increase in unemployment benefits wouldn't have happened but for the financial crisis, so you can't include that.

Obama still cut the deficit.

[Image: chart-budget-deficit-shrinks-4-year-low-...w-Blog.jpg]
10-15-2012 08:20 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #48
RE: More Romney DOUBLE talk
(10-15-2012 08:20 PM)firmbizzle Wrote:  Obama still cut the deficit.
[Image: chart-budget-deficit-shrinks-4-year-low-...w-Blog.jpg]

Not exactly. If by putting the 2009 line in red you (and/or the person who drew the graph) are attempting to show that Obama lowered the budget from what he inherited, remember one thing. The 2009 budget was not approved until after Obama took over, and the budget finally approved raised the deficit some $400 billion over anything ever proposed by Shrub or any republican. Therefore, to be honest, the red line for 2009 should be red down to about $1 trillion and blue for the last $400 billion. And when you portray it honestly, then no, Obama has not reduced the deficit.

I am posting this not to imply in any way that Shrub was good, but that Obama is worse.
10-15-2012 08:28 PM
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SumOfAllFears Offline
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Post: #49
RE: More Romney DOUBLE talk
(10-15-2012 04:32 PM)dcCid Wrote:  Mitt Romney, 10/3/12: I will not reduce the taxes paid by high income Americans.

Mitt Romney, 2/22/12: There were so many misrepresentations in there it's going to take me a little while. Number one, I said today that we're going to cut taxes on everyone across the country by twenty percent—including the top one percent.

Mitt Romney, 10/3/12: The key to great schools? Great teachers. So I reject the idea that I don't believe in great teachers or more teachers.

Mitt Romney, 6/8/12: He says we need more firemen, more policemen, more teachers. Did he not get the message of Wisconsin? The American people did. It's time for us to cut back on government.

Mitt Romney, 10/3/12: Actually, it's a lengthy description, but number one, pre-existing conditions are covered under my plan.

Mitt Romney, 3/27/12: If they're 45 years old and they show up and they say I want insurance because I've got heart disease, it's like: "Hey guys, we can't play the game like that." You've got to get insurance when you're well, and then if you get ill, then you're going to be covered.

The only thing you can trust about Mitt Romney is that he'll say whatever he thinks he needs to say to get what he wants.

The only thing you can trust about Obama is he will say and blame whomever and whatever he thinks necessary to get what he wants.
(This post was last modified: 10-15-2012 08:29 PM by SumOfAllFears.)
10-15-2012 08:28 PM
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firmbizzle Offline
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Post: #50
RE: More Romney DOUBLE talk
(10-15-2012 08:28 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(10-15-2012 08:20 PM)firmbizzle Wrote:  Obama still cut the deficit.
[Image: chart-budget-deficit-shrinks-4-year-low-...w-Blog.jpg]

Not exactly. If by putting the 2009 line in red you (and/or the person who drew the graph) are attempting to show that Obama lowered the budget from what he inherited, remember one thing. The 2009 budget was not approved until after Obama took over, and the budget finally approved raised the deficit some $400 billion over anything ever proposed by Shrub or any republican. Therefore, to be honest, the red line for 2009 should be red down to about $1 trillion and blue for the last $400 billion. And when you portray it honestly, then no, Obama has not reduced the deficit.

I am posting this not to imply in any way that Shrub was good, but that Obama is worse.

And by worse you mean sitting down at the table after everyone ordered, ate and left.
10-15-2012 08:41 PM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #51
RE: More Romney DOUBLE talk
First

Adding less to the deficit than the year before isn't cutting the deficit.

It's still increasing the deficit, just by less than the previous year.

Second

(10-15-2012 04:24 PM)dcCid Wrote:  There is already a 2 tier system on long term cap gains (stocks verses say appreciation in other assets like gold or coins).

At a certain point the return on investment expected/received is not impacted by the tax bite.
Not true at all. Please consult with your CPA. Gains is gains... Holding period is the differential... Unless it is your primary residence. There may be a few outliers, but gains on gold and gains on stocks are taxed the same for the same holding period.

I presented investment opportunities to the wealthy for 2+ decades, and taxes were ALWAYS part of the equation. Heck, a decent portion of the investments HAD no return were it not for favorable tax treatment. If you believe what you say above, then you aren't rich.

Finally...
The list of "double talk" by Romney is only that to people that don't understand what he is saying.

You can cut rates and still increase the amount of taxes paid. The math is actually simple

You can hire teachers and cut government

The last part is so convoluted I can't tell the context, but based on the obviousness of the preceding 2 , call me skeptical

I have to say, it doesn't help your sides argument that you can't tell the difference between rate and revenue
10-15-2012 10:05 PM
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Redwingtom Offline
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Post: #52
RE: More Romney DOUBLE talk
Don't you just love it when the cons piss on facts and say it is raining?

Can you say desperation? 03-lmfao
10-16-2012 12:00 AM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #53
RE: More Romney DOUBLE talk
who are you talking about, because it sure isn't me

(10-15-2012 04:32 PM)dcCid Wrote:  Mitt Romney, 10/3/12: I will not reduce the taxes paid by high income Americans.

Mitt Romney, 2/22/12: There were so many misrepresentations in there it's going to take me a little while. Number one, I said today that we're going to cut taxes on everyone across the country by twenty percent—including the top one percent.

Now to anyone but a fool, OU know he's talking about cutting rates... He's stated it numerous times. Not cutting the taxes paid, but cutting the rate. How does he do this? Well, given that he earned tens of millions of dollars and the top rate kicks in at about 200k, exactly how much of his income is being taxed at 36%?

Quote:
Mitt Romney, 10/3/12: The key to great schools? Great teachers. So I reject the idea that I don't believe in great teachers or more teachers.

Mitt Romney, 6/8/12: He says we need more firemen, more policemen, more teachers. Did he not get the message of Wisconsin? The American people did. It's time for us to cut back on government.
Few people consider firemen police and teachers government any more than the military is government.

Quote:Mitt Romney, 10/3/12: Actually, it's a lengthy description, but number one, pre-existing conditions are covered under my plan.

Mitt Romney, 3/27/12: If they're 45 years old and they show up and they say I want insurance because I've got heart disease, it's like: "Hey guys, we can't play the game like that." You've got to get insurance when you're well, and then if you get ill, then you're going to be covered.

Geez... so even when you have an actual working model of a plan that passed, you base your opinion of what he will do on this second quote? It's not even clear who "we" are in the statement, or that he's advocating any policy. Seems to me he's saying, this is what the insurance companies will say...

Bottom line... the first statement is quite clear. The second statement is a story and not a statement.

HARDLY facts in your favor

(10-15-2012 08:20 PM)firmbizzle Wrote:  Obama still cut the deficit.

THIS is an even bigger lie than the old politicians, a cut in the projected increase is a spending cut argument... This is increasing the deficit by an amount less than we increased it LAST year is a cut in the deficit.

Your chart isn't measuring the deficit, which is a cumulative number, but the annual contribution to that deficit. All of those numbers are increases in the deficit.

Talk about confusion with facts
(This post was last modified: 10-16-2012 12:23 AM by Hambone10.)
10-16-2012 12:23 AM
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