Churches to challenge IRS with Pulpit Freedom Sunday

I honestly want to know what the opinions on the right are of this? Not a flame-starting thread or making any accusations of anyone on the right in general, but I want to know what the general feeling is about this?

I'm one of these people that say the 1st amendment is "freedom of Religion"... not "freedom FROM religion".

The 1st amendment says what the GOVT cannot do, not what the Churches cannot do.

When too many people out there want to legislate what I consider "anti-Christian" or "anti-Religious" messages. And Churches are not allowed to "respond" without fear of being attacked by the same govt. That's WAY TOO much of govt'al overreach.

(10-08-2012 10:41 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  I'm one of these people that say the 1st amendment is "freedom of Religion"... not "freedom FROM religion".

The 1st amendment says what the GOVT cannot do, not what the Churches cannot do.

When too many people out there want to legislate what I consider "anti-Christian" or "anti-Religious" messages. And Churches are not allowed to "respond" without fear of being attacked by the same govt. That's WAY TOO much of govt'al overreach.

But is losing a tax benefit a punishment? Do we really want to give tax breaks to political parties masquerading as religions?

Personally, I'm in favor of doing away with the tax-exempt status for Churches.. but then you have to do away with the "political speech limitations" that the govt. forces on Churches

(10-08-2012 10:54 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  Personally, I'm in favor of doing away with the tax-exempt status for Churches.. but then you have to do away with the "political speech limitations" that the govt. forces on Churches

That's the only thing they're threatening, to take away the tax-exempt status. They're not able to stop them from taking political stances but if they want to be run as a tax-exempt non-profit, they can't do so.

(10-08-2012 10:21 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  Churches to challenge IRS with Pulpit Freedom Sunday

I honestly want to know what the opinions on the right are of this? Not a flame-starting thread or making any accusations of anyone on the right in general, but I want to know what the general feeling is about this?

Telling any group of people, in any circumstance, that they can not discuss politics spits in the face of the first amendment.

(10-08-2012 10:44 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(10-08-2012 10:41 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  I'm one of these people that say the 1st amendment is "freedom of Religion"... not "freedom FROM religion".

The 1st amendment says what the GOVT cannot do, not what the Churches cannot do.

When too many people out there want to legislate what I consider "anti-Christian" or "anti-Religious" messages. And Churches are not allowed to "respond" without fear of being attacked by the same govt. That's WAY TOO much of govt'al overreach.

But is losing a tax benefit a punishment? Do we really want to give tax breaks to political parties masquerading as religions?

First of all a Church that happens to endorse a candidate in an election year is not "A political party masquerading as religion" any more than any other non profit, you know like planed parenthood or NOW, endorsing a candidate makes them a political party.

Secondly yes taking away tax exempt status is a punishment.

(10-08-2012 11:40 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(10-08-2012 10:21 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  Churches to challenge IRS with Pulpit Freedom Sunday

I honestly want to know what the opinions on the right are of this? Not a flame-starting thread or making any accusations of anyone on the right in general, but I want to know what the general feeling is about this?

Telling any group of people, in any circumstance, that they can not discuss politics spits in the face of the first amendment.

Bingo. The government should take a hike.

(10-08-2012 11:53 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(10-08-2012 11:40 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(10-08-2012 10:21 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  Churches to challenge IRS with Pulpit Freedom Sunday

I honestly want to know what the opinions on the right are of this? Not a flame-starting thread or making any accusations of anyone on the right in general, but I want to know what the general feeling is about this?

Telling any group of people, in any circumstance, that they can not discuss politics spits in the face of the first amendment.

Bingo. The government should take a hike.

So then should be give tax exempt status to political parties?

This past Sunday Jerry Falwell Jr. Delivered a sermon about leadership with a backdrop of the Oval Office. He was very careful in his wording, but he made a clear point tgat leadership is vacant in Obama. Great sermon.

If my church participates...I will walk out and not come back. I have made my opinion of mixing religion and politics very clear to my pastor. I am not alone in this sentiment.

I am totally in favor of removing the tax exempt status of churches and all other organizations. Repeal the system. Replace it with a consumption tax. Problem solved.

(10-09-2012 05:41 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I am totally in favor of removing the tax exempt status of churches and all other organizations. Repeal the system. Replace it with a consumption tax. Problem solved.

Good point. Often one difficult issue is a result of a bad decision earlier down the line.

(10-08-2012 11:40 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  Telling any group of people, in any circumstance, that they can not discuss politics spits in the face of the first amendment.

And that's a HR. Excellent point.

(10-08-2012 10:59 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(10-08-2012 10:54 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  Personally, I'm in favor of doing away with the tax-exempt status for Churches.. but then you have to do away with the "political speech limitations" that the govt. forces on Churches

That's the only thing they're threatening, to take away the tax-exempt status. They're not able to stop them from taking political stances but if they want to be run as a tax-exempt non-profit, they can't do so.

It seems like the 47% who don't pay federal taxes have tax exempt status and still have political speech. They get to vote and everything. Religious bigots like you make me sick. You and other far lefties have made attacking Christianity more than a passing hobby and have tried to legislate it out of existence. I hope every church attacks the left and it changes the turn out of the election. Then I sincerely hope the left tries to make removing their tax status part of their platform. That will destroy your dear Democrat party for generations.

Now you go back on ignore. You little punk bi7ch.

It will be great for the country when God has to pay the taxman.

I was reading Jim Tressel's book over the summer. It's called the Winner's Manual and it was published by a Christian Publisher. If any of you run a business it's a worthwhile read. He talks about the role of the church and how it's losing it's influence amongst the youth of America. I believe the church or some churches have become too political to attract people. It's a split message and I think it's easy to point out the hypocrisy. I'll look up the survey he quotes in the book. It would be an excellent thread starter actually. Get politics out of the church!

(10-09-2012 07:39 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I was reading Jim Tressel's book over the summer. It's called the Winner's Manual and it was published by a Christian Publisher. If any of you run a business it's a worthwhile read. He talks about the role of the church and how it's losing it's influence amongst the youth of America. I believe the church or some churches have become too political to attract people. It's a split message and I think it's easy to point out the hypocrisy. I'll look up the survey he quotes in the book. It would be an excellent thread starter actually. Get politics out of the church!

I see whats going on as the Church fighting back. I agree that if politicians stayed out of the church the church would stay out of politics. I don't see the church as the one who started this quarrel.

It's one of those things where both lose in my opinion. It's like that War Games movie when I was a kid. The computer figures out that the only way to win is "not to play". This is a direct provocation though aimed at getting a response.

I think it's important to define what one views as "political" speech.

Militants like Kurciff think if a preacher does a sermon about how abortion is wrong, or gay marriage is wrong, he's engaging in political speech. That's in no way political speech.

I personally don't think pastors should endorse candidates from the pulpit. They should preach God's word and tend to the spiritual well being of their congregations. Let those lessons, if they are embraced, guide their voting decisions.

(10-09-2012 05:41 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  If my church participates...I will walk out and not come back. I have made my opinion of mixing religion and politics very clear to my pastor. I am not alone in this sentiment.

I left a church when I couldn't take the political noise any more.

Voting, to me, is as personal a decision as any a person makes, and I don't want to be hectered to about it from the pulpit. He didn't see it that way.

Pastor told me it was his Christian duty. I told him, "Knock yourself out, pal."

(10-09-2012 07:39 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I was reading Jim Tressel's book over the summer. It's called the Winner's Manual and it was published by a Christian Publisher. If any of you run a business it's a worthwhile read. He talks about the role of the church and how it's losing it's influence amongst the youth of America. I believe the church or some churches have become too political to attract people. It's a split message and I think it's easy to point out the hypocrisy. I'll look up the survey he quotes in the book. It would be an excellent thread starter actually. Get politics out of the church!

Which chapter covered cheating?