Read it and weep

Quote:A flood of top-end properties are hitting the market as businessmen seek to leave France before stiff tax hikes hit, real estate agents and financial advisors say.

"It's nearly a general panic. Some 400 to 500 residences worth more than one million euros ($1.3 million) have come onto the Paris market," said managers at Daniel Feau, a real-estate broker that specialises in high-end property.

While it is not yet on the scale of the exodus of rich French after the election of Socialist president Francois Mitterrand in 1981, real estate agents said, the tax plans of France's new Socialist President Francois Hollande are having a noticeable effect.

Quote:Daniel Feau agreed that the profile of those who are leaving has changed, from the idle rich to "managers of major international corporations, entrepreneurs and investors much younger than previously who are scared of the marginal tax rate of 62.21 percent on sales of stock."

I remember a few libs on here claiming that Owl was nuts when he said this is the result when you outrageously tax the people who create jobs. What say you now?

Obviously the cure here is to have the United Nations administer the tax so they couldn't simply move away from it.

This was predictable but what I'm really curious about is what the librals on this board think about this.

The libs will say:

1) The people leaving France are greedy & selfish.

2) More laws need to be passed to keep those fleeing in France, or have the French tax follow them to their new residence.

Oh, and those rich French folks are RACIST, too!!

They should be PROUD to accept the tax hike and engage in ECONOMIC PATRIOTISM, as COTUS has deemed tax increases.

(10-07-2012 08:17 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  The libs will say:

1) The people leaving France are greedy & selfish.

2) More laws need to be passed to keep those fleeing in France, or have the French tax follow them to their new residence.

Sounds like a good start.

Tax rates? they don't influence behavior. That is the trickle down... No difference between 28% - 39% - 75%.

(10-07-2012 09:42 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(10-07-2012 08:17 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  The libs will say:

1) The people leaving France are greedy & selfish.

2) More laws need to be passed to keep those fleeing in France, or have the French tax follow them to their new residence.

Sounds like a good start.

The fact that the irony was completely lost on you, while not surprising, is disturbing.

This is why we have to have some sort of national sales tax. Make it hybrid. Increase the social safety net but there is something fundamentally wrong with taxing income. I still can't fathom how we tax capital gains different from income, but that seems to fall on deaf ears amongst the GOP crowd. We put a plan together that balances the budget. We freeze spending and increase revenue through a sales tax. If I had my way I would put a surcharge tax on carbon based fuels until we pay off the debt. We freeze spending. Until we pay off the debt. We don't start any wars. Until we pay off the debt. We don't launch one drone, until we pay off the debt. We surcharge a penny on every stock transaction, until we pay off the debt. We institute internet poker and reform marijuana laws and tax it to pay off the debt. You get the picture.....................


2nd thought I had with this. Where are those French going to go?

How much wealth is there in the US? Could we do a one-time wealth tax? If the debt and deficit threaten our very existence. Then that at least should be on the table.

(10-08-2012 08:17 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  2nd thought I had with this. Where are those French going to go?

Per the article:

Quote:The preferred destinations of those leaving are London, New York and Geneva, as well as Canada, Israel and Singapore, said Laurent Demeure, head of Coldwell Banker France.

He also noted that Brussels remains a favourite of those older, who have already sold their business interests, and are looking to benefit from Belgium's lighter taxation of trusts to pass on inheritances to their children.

(10-08-2012 08:17 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  This is why we have to have some sort of national sales tax. Make it hybrid. Increase the social safety net but there is something fundamentally wrong with taxing income. I still can't fathom how we tax capital gains different from income, but that seems to fall on deaf ears amongst the GOP crowd. We put a plan together that balances the budget. We freeze spending and increase revenue through a sales tax. If I had my way I would put a surcharge tax on carbon based fuels until we pay off the debt. We freeze spending. Until we pay off the debt. We don't start any wars. Until we pay off the debt. We don't launch one drone, until we pay off the debt. We surcharge a penny on every stock transaction, until we pay off the debt. We institute internet poker and reform marijuana laws and tax it to pay off the debt. You get the picture.....................

Mach, you must have faith in our politicians that simply handing them more of our money means they'll spend it wisely.

Which goes back to my original hypothesis of the fiscal train wreck W created. The right wants to starve the beast to limit govt. They are carrying out their mission by bankrupting the United States. Entering two wars and cutting taxes and the prescription drug benefit for seniors did the trick. We play politics with tax rates and taxes. We print more money as a viable alternative. If either party did right by the American people they wouldn't stand a chance at being elected.

(10-08-2012 08:17 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  . If I had my way I would put a surcharge tax on carbon based fuels until we pay off the debt.

So basically in a weak economy you would raise the cost of basically every good and service produced in the country which would effect every person rich or poor. With grain prices soaring right now this would send them even higher which hits every one who goes to the grocery store.

Quote:French entrepreneurs have complained vociferously against a proposal in the Socialist's 2013 budget to increase the capital gains tax on sales of company stakes, which they argue will kill the market for innovative start-up companies in France.

Entrepreneurs in the high-tech sector in particular often invest their own money and take low salaries in the hope they can later sell the company for a large sum.

They say a stiff increase in capital gains tax would remove incentives to do this in France. They also argue that capital has already been taxed several times in the making.

The government has since backtracked, and Budget Minister Jerome Cahuzac pledged Friday to return to the status quo when someone who has created a company seeks to sell it later.

And I must have missed this, but who exactly in the US is suggesting a 75% top rate and a 62.21% marginal rate?

(10-08-2012 11:32 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  And I must have missed this, but who exactly in the US is suggesting a 75% top rate and a 62.21% marginal rate?

Oh FFS. Fine, what's the number? If 75% is too high, what isn't, in your mind? Tell me what income and cap gains tax increases you have in mind that WON'T disincentivize growth and expansion.

(10-08-2012 08:17 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  This is why we have to have some sort of national sales tax. Make it hybrid. Increase the social safety net but there is something fundamentally wrong with taxing income. I still can't fathom how we tax capital gains different from income, but that seems to fall on deaf ears amongst the GOP crowd. We put a plan together that balances the budget. We freeze spending and increase revenue through a sales tax. If I had my way I would put a surcharge tax on carbon based fuels until we pay off the debt. We freeze spending. Until we pay off the debt. We don't start any wars. Until we pay off the debt. We don't launch one drone, until we pay off the debt. We surcharge a penny on every stock transaction, until we pay off the debt. We institute internet poker and reform marijuana laws and tax it to pay off the debt. You get the picture.....................


2nd thought I had with this. Where are those French going to go?

I wish...I can get behind most of this except the carbon surcharge.

(10-08-2012 11:48 AM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  

(10-08-2012 11:32 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  And I must have missed this, but who exactly in the US is suggesting a 75% top rate and a 62.21% marginal rate?

Oh FFS. Fine, what's the number? If 75% is too high, what isn't, in your mind? Tell me what income and cap gains tax increases you have in mind that WON'T disincentivize growth and expansion.

39.6% or thereabouts for income. But I'm not really a big proponent of any huge increase in the CG rates.

(10-08-2012 08:17 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I still can't fathom how we tax capital gains different from income, but that seems to fall on deaf ears amongst the GOP crowd.

A big part of the reason is that the rest of the world does, too. In fact, much of the rest of the world provides even bigger breaks. Germany had zero CG tax until a couple of years ago; their economy did quite well when they did not tax CGs, and has not done quite so well since. I think it's too pat an answer to say that's the reason, but I also think it's unrealistic to deny any impact either.

The reason CG's are taxed differently is because you have to take capital risks to generate them, risks that you don't have to take to go to your job. You go to school, teach, and get paid. You don't have to write a check to invest in the school before you can start working there. Those on the left typically do not understand the importance of risk capital to econmic growth and prosperity, but those who are growing and prospering do.

(10-08-2012 11:48 AM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  

(10-08-2012 11:32 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  And I must have missed this, but who exactly in the US is suggesting a 75% top rate and a 62.21% marginal rate?

Oh FFS. Fine, what's the number? If 75% is too high, what isn't, in your mind? Tell me what income and cap gains tax increases you have in mind that WON'T disincentivize growth and expansion.

If you want any government you have to pay for it somehow. What number do you believe we should have.. zero? Where's your maximum? What magic number do you have in mind? Are you suggesting we completely get rid of government all together? There's a huge difference between what American's have suggested, what they're actually paying and what they're talking about in France. What tax number do you have in mind that will help growth? Now show me anywhere that isn't funded by the Koch brothers that agrees with you.

Frankly, it's pretty hard to take you seriously with such absolute talk. You sound like a child having a temper tamptrum, unable to have a serious discussion.

Lowering the taxes past a certain point clearly has diminishing returns. It seems pretty obvious we've reached that point with the Bush tax cuts. We no longer benefit from huge tax cuts for the wealthy in a service based industry, this money doesn't find it's way back into the economy, that much is clear to anyone in finance. Particularly when we aren't funding infastructure like we used to.

It's fine to suggest the wealthy should keep their money if you feel that way, and don't support having a military or government services, but it's comical to suggest it's helping the country as a whole. It's simply not true in any way.