Mike Decourcey was on the radio this morning.

He said that the Catholic schools were quietly upset about the current arrangement of teams. He said he had talked to several officials of these schools, and they were worried that having so many teams in the league would hurt their program in the long run.

Villanova is the example he used. He said that this year, Villanova would compete with the top tier teams. Next year, however, they lose key players and would get killed in league play even though they would still be an above average team. In a smaller league, they would be more competitive and have a much better shot at the NCAAs.

I don't know much about Villanova's situation or the other Catholic school's situations, but I thought you might find his comments interesting.

It will likely be very difficult for some of the bb schools to compete financially.The most likely ones are Seton Hall and Providence.It is also possible that Marquette and DePaul may use the BE as good place to be for a while after leaving the old CUSA.Then there is the 12 team play that has cicirculated around 8BE football plus ND,plus Villanova(who might consider a move to 1A football) plus StJohns and Georgetown.

OK, let me get this straight.

They (basketball-only or Catholic schools) prevent a split and demand the inclusion of two more basketball-only schools (Marquette and Depaul) into an already bloated Big East basketball league. Now they are concerned about the size and competitiveness of the league hurting their long-term interests?

What a joke.

It's time for a split.

The small Catholic schools should be concerned...under no cicumstances can I imagine Providence or Seton Hall competing with UConn, SU or UL in bball on a yr to yr basis....more teams makes it less likely they are going to sneak into the tourney

-- something like 5 out of the last 6 BE tourney championship games have been football school vs football school...I think that is more then a trend


Jackson

WacoBearcat Wrote:OK, let me get this straight.

They (basketball-only or Catholic schools) prevent a split and demand the inclusion of two more basketball-only schools (Marquette and Depaul) into an already bloated Big East basketball league. Now they are concerned about the size and competitiveness of the league hurting their long-term interests?

What a joke.

It's time for a split.

Exactly. I don't want this to come across as ripping the non-Division I-A football schools but it makes NO sense to have this conference configured about this. And it definitely doesn't make sense to have the parties who wanted this configuration to start griping about it. Work out the agreement with the Big East name, split the money equally, and split off into a Catholic conference and an All-Sports conference.

Quote:Exactly. I don't want this to come across as ripping the non-Division I-A football schools but it makes NO sense to have this conference configured about this. And it definitely doesn't make sense to have the parties who wanted this configuration to start griping about it. Work out the agreement with the Big East name, split the money equally, and split off into a Catholic conference and an All-Sports conference

-- I think wouldn't say the Catholic schools wanted this confugeration...but this was the only way that they could get there 8 members together and have an auto birth waiting on them when they are finally rid of the football schools...this was also the only way to avoid lawsuites over every little detail includeing: who get's the name, NCAA units, MSG etc...

-- Personally I think it is great news that they are not happy with the current setup either...that means both sides can mutually agree to part without all the legal battles etc


Jackson

Jackson1011 Wrote:

Quote:Exactly. I don't want this to come across as ripping the non-Division I-A football schools but it makes NO sense to have this conference configured about this. And it definitely doesn't make sense to have the parties who wanted this configuration to start griping about it. Work out the agreement with the Big East name, split the money equally, and split off into a Catholic conference and an All-Sports conference

-- I think wouldn't say the Catholic schools wanted this confugeration...but this was the only way that they could get there 8 members together and have an auto birth waiting on them when they are finally rid of the football schools...this was also the only way to avoid lawsuites over every little detail includeing: who get's the name, NCAA units, MSG etc...

-- Personally I think it is great news that they are not happy with the current setup either...that means both sides can mutually agree to part without all the legal battles etc


Jackson

I think the reason they stick together was for basketball credits only. If they stick together for 5 years or more, then they can keep the credits and have an auto bid for the new basketball conference. Its good they dont want to stick together either cause BE FB schools will go their own way. I wonder what will happen to ND, will they get the current deal they have or will FB schools have some sort of alliance with them again.

you only need six teams to be eligible for an automatic bid, but there is a three year probation period. i think that would mean very little because chances are whoever wins that conference wouldn't need an automatic bid (at least not in basketball), but i still can see why they'd want to keep it.

i thought the non football schools wanted out, or at least they wanted to disband the big east. notre dame was the only one that didn't, and none of the football programs wanted to either because the conference disbanding could have meant them losing their bcs tie in. the only reason they pushed for two more basketball schools was to balance the power so to speak.

i can see why the basketball schools are not happy with the arrangement. in fact i think the only people who are satisfied with this arrangement are the football coaches at each school. in general, a sixteen team league is too big. i think most basketball, soccer, baseball, etc would prefer an eight or nine team league to a sixteen team league.

in saying that, the basketball schools had far less to lose than the football schools did had the big east disbanded. all the bowl contracts, including the bcs, would have been null and void and they would have had to do some real intense negotiating to get them back. in addition to that, they'd be on probation for three years because the conference would be new. as i said earlier though, that wouldn't matter much because chances are the automatic qualifiers wouldn't need the automatic bids.

Just like in 2003 the BE football 8 are not going anywhere without ND.

The facts are those eight could split and give ND the same deal they have now and the Irish wouldnt blink in accepting.
Look at basketball final polls last year.
Louisville #3
West Virginia #12
UConn #17
Syracuse #21
Cincy #25
Find anything in common? They are part of the EIGHT all sports teams.
I think youll see that split in 2010 or even earlier.

Not the same deal for ND.ND does not want to play its other sports against anything but the best.The reason for the bowl games and the regular season football games is because ND gets other sports in a major conference.

and thats exactly the same deal they would get on a split. i never said they would join the league in FB but they would gladly tie themselves to the FB school with the same deal.

He is a good solution-

Big East 2010

Northeast Division
Georgetown
Providence
Saint John's
Saint Joseph's
Seton Hall
Villanova

Midwest Division
Dayton
DePaul
Marquette
Notre Dame
Saint Louis
Xavier


Eastern Athletic Conference 2010
Cincinnati
Connecticut
Louisville
Pittsburgh
Rutgers
South Florida
Syracuse
West Virginia
????other members????

Eastern Athletic Conference 2010

Cincinnati
Connecticut
Louisville
Pittsburgh
Rutgers
South Florida
Syracuse
West Virginia
Memphis
Notre Dame (guaranty 4 football games per yer against EAC members and full member in other sports.

I could live with this!!

JMSTiger Wrote:He is a good solution-

Big East 2010

Northeast Division
Georgetown
Providence
Saint John's
Saint Joseph's
Seton Hall
Villanova

Midwest Division
Dayton
DePaul
Marquette
Notre Dame
Saint Louis
Xavier


Eastern Athletic Conference 2010
Cincinnati
Connecticut
Louisville
Pittsburgh
Rutgers
South Florida
Syracuse
West Virginia
????other members????

as a xavier fan, i must agree that that is an upgrade from what we have now and i'm sure we'd jump at the chance.

personally, i would like to be in a conference with just eight or nine teams. we have 14 now in the atlantic ten (and i find it funny that we're still the atlantic TEN), but that's too many for basketball imho. i don't see what is so beneficial of being in a conference with a team that you only play once a year anyway. i love saint joseph's. they are a great asset to the league. however, in previous years we only played them once a year. we could do that anyway even if they weren't in our conference and it would still have basically the same impact on our strength of schedule.

i'd be even happier if we just made those two divisions two different conferences. give me creighton and maybe one or two other teams in addition to the six that are already there (possibly butler, southern illinois or someone like that) and that's our conference. everyone plays a balanced schedule. home and homes with EVERYONE, not just half the teams (or in the case we have now, three teams). if you want to still play teams like saint joseph's or temple from the east we can still do that, but it would be an ooc game.


not to hijack the thread or anything, but you're conference is even more bloated than ours. what are your thoughts on having so many teams??

xubrew Wrote:

JMSTiger Wrote:He is a good solution-

Big East 2010

Northeast Division
Georgetown
Providence
Saint John's
Saint Joseph's
Seton Hall
Villanova

Midwest Division
Dayton
DePaul
Marquette
Notre Dame
Saint Louis
Xavier


Eastern Athletic Conference 2010
Cincinnati
Connecticut
Louisville
Pittsburgh
Rutgers
South Florida
Syracuse
West Virginia
????other members????

as a xavier fan, i must agree that that is an upgrade from what we have now and i'm sure we'd jump at the chance.

personally, i would like to be in a conference with just eight or nine teams. we have 14 now in the atlantic ten (and i find it funny that we're still the atlantic TEN), but that's too many for basketball imho. i don't see what is so beneficial of being in a conference with a team that you only play once a year anyway. i love saint joseph's. they are a great asset to the league. however, in previous years we only played them once a year. we could do that anyway even if they weren't in our conference and it would still have basically the same impact on our strength of schedule.

i'd be happy if the atlantic ten split up into two groups of seven. give me saint louis and creighton in addition to our group of seven and that's our conference. everyone plays a balanced schedule. home and homes with EVERYONE, not just half the teams (or in the case we have now, three teams). if you want to still play teams like saint joseph's or temple from the east we can still do that, but it would be an ooc game.


not to hijack the thread or anything, but you're conference is even more bloated than ours. what are your thoughts on having so many teams??

With a 12-team "Catholic" Big East with two divisions, Xavier would still play Dayton, DePaul, Marquette, Notre Dame and Saint Louis twice and then get everyone in the other division once. Seems like it would work well for everyone involved and it would be a very, very good basketball league. If you don't like the divisions, just have 12 teams, play everyone once (11 games) and then have two permanent home and homes and three that rotate (16 games).

Quote:Cincinnati
Connecticut
Louisville
Pittsburgh
Rutgers
South Florida
Syracuse
West Virginia
Memphis
Notre Dame (guaranty 4 football games per yer against EAC members and full member in other sports.

-- as for expanion...all bets are off now that Army and Navy have said no....Memphis, UCF and ECU have to be #1 on the radar now.....

-- Still not buying the idea of ND coming with the football schools...just can't see them leaving Marqutte and Depual

Jackson

ND, the I-AA (Villanova, Georgetown) and the five non-FB schools have no interest or intention or going anywhere. They are committed to the Big East. Period. And given that these schools control 50% of the votes, there is no means to vote them out, either.

I would argue, however, that ND, Georgetown and Villanova have no interest in some sort of quasi-Catholic league with XU, Dayton, or St. Joe's. There is nothing to be gained by a 12 team league if there is not a football playoff attached to it.

My opinion has been that the eight I-A FB schools won't stick together for a new conference, just as they weren't when BC proposed the idea in 2003. The ACC vultures still have one more swoop left.

The 2003 deal 8BE football schools(at that time BC was in and USF was not in) plus ND turned into 16 team league(BC was replaced by USF).Now this 9 team group is given here.However,this deal loses much of the bb strength of the 16 league in terms of market).Losing NYC,Philadelphia and DC.It would seem that keeping the great tv package announced today for 100 games is worth keeping the 12 team package which started in 2003 and seems to have ND support.

Quote:With a 12-team "Catholic" Big East with two divisions, Xavier would still play Dayton, DePaul, Marquette, Notre Dame and Saint Louis twice and then get everyone in the other division once. Seems like it would work well for everyone involved and it would be a very, very good basketball league. If you don't like the divisions, just have 12 teams, play everyone once (11 games) and then have two permanent home and homes and three that rotate (16 games).

i think it would work out well for everyone involved. it's a hypothetical situation, but hypothetically speaking i think that would be a great conference. i honestly wouldn't complain. it's certainly a big upgrade from what we have now. personally though, i'd like to see two conferences instead of one. the reason being i just think that conferences don't need to be any bigger than eight or nine teams. if we wanted to schedule the teams from the other division in out of conference games, then great. i just like the idea of one division where everyone plays everyone home and home. playing a team in your conference once isn't really all that different than just playing them in an out of conference game.