Just for the record, conservatives and libertarians believe government belongs to us. If there are still any questions about the differences between the different ideologies, please, stay home on election day.
I don't doubt that most democratic (and republican) politicians feel that way, but if you really believe that clip even implies we are subservient to the government, perhaps it is you who should stay home. And you have the quote wrong in your title. It shouldn't be that hard to correct, seeing as how it's the title of the video and all.
(09-05-2012 08:13 AM)jh Wrote: I don't doubt that most democratic (and republican) politicians feel that way, but if you really believe that clip even implies we are subservient to the government, perhaps it is you who should stay home. And you have the quote wrong in your title. It shouldn't be that hard to correct, seeing as how it's the title of the video and all.
The entire party platform of the DNC has been about how we are essentially owned by the government and how government should take an active parental role into every aspect of our daily lives. If you're too obtuse to understand that, YOU stay home.
(09-05-2012 08:13 AM)jh Wrote: I don't doubt that most democratic (and republican) politicians feel that way, but if you really believe that clip even implies we are subservient to the government, perhaps it is you who should stay home. And you have the quote wrong in your title. It shouldn't be that hard to correct, seeing as how it's the title of the video and all.
The entire party platform of the DNC has been about how we are essentially owned by the government and how government should take an active parental role into every aspect of our daily lives. If you're too obtuse to understand that, YOU stay home.
Oh wow. You capitalized YOU. That sure told me.
The video talks about belonging to the government in the same way that people belong to clubs, churches, and other organizations. I belong to many organizations. I even belong to organizations which work at cross-purposes on some thing. I can do that because I am in no way shape or form owned by these organizations, just as I am not owned by any of the governments that I do belong to.
There is plenty to object to in the DNC platform without resorting to transparent strawmen. If you are so sure of your position you should be able to argue against what they actually say rather than against what you wish they would have said.
(09-05-2012 07:46 AM)DaSaintFan Wrote: that one is going to be coming back to haunt all sort of Democrat elections this year, I do believe..
The day the last Democrat, Progressive, Communist, and/or Socialist dies off will be a very joyous occasion for America.
Demographic trends would suggest otherwise, however, and if any ideology sector is in danger of "dying" in upcoming generations, it's likely the social conservative wing of the GOP. People like Akin, Huckabee, Bachmann, Santorum, etc.
Most Republican and Democrat neighborhood joes are generally decent people. It's certain activist types and, of course, the career politicians that tend to make one's skin crawl.
This video is nothing more than a "gotcha" moment that will pass by quickly. I watched this video and it's pretty clear that they did not mean to say that the gov't is in possession of us. The clip was trying to portray how everyone has voluntary associations in various social clubs, churches, and other social events. When you say you belong to a church it doesn't mean that the pastor of the church owns you. They were trying to make this a feeling of community amongst all of us. We all participate in our government by the fact that we vote our officials into office, and we make choices for who we want in based on their beliefs, etc., etc.
I'm not a democrat. I'm a registered republican, but think of myself more as having a libertarian spirit. Even I can see that this video was trying to convey a very different meaning to the idea that the government possesses us as property.
(09-05-2012 08:45 AM)jh Wrote: Oh wow. You capitalized YOU. That sure told me.
The video talks about belonging to the government in the same way that people belong to clubs, churches, and other organizations. I belong to many organizations. I even belong to organizations which work at cross-purposes on some thing. I can do that because I am in no way shape or form owned by these organizations, just as I am not owned by any of the governments that I do belong to.
The difference between the "clubs" you mentioned and the government is that you are forced to interact with the government and contribute to its finances. Other than some idiotic union rules, nobody is forced to participate in 'clubs' and organizations. In that case, participation is voluntary. In the government, you are "voluntold".
09-05-2012 09:17 AM
Machiavelli
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(09-05-2012 09:12 AM)miko33 Wrote: This video is nothing more than a "gotcha" moment that will pass by quickly. I watched this video and it's pretty clear that they did not mean to say that the gov't is in possession of us. The clip was trying to portray how everyone has voluntary associations in various social clubs, churches, and other social events. When you say you belong to a church it doesn't mean that the pastor of the church owns you. They were trying to make this a feeling of community amongst all of us. We all participate in our government by the fact that we vote our officials into office, and we make choices for who we want in based on their beliefs, etc., etc.
I'm not a democrat. I'm a registered republican, but think of myself more as having a libertarian spirit. Even I can see that this video was trying to convey a very different meaning to the idea that the government possesses us as property.
I find it all to be a Freudian revelation. Kinda like using the word "Forward" for your party slogan when that term has been associated with Socialist and Communist movements for the past 150 years.
(09-05-2012 09:28 AM)Machiavelli Wrote: Government would be a hell of alot better if a certain set of people wouldn't be such active participants in it's demise.
Someone needs to do the job of bringing it under control. It would happen quicker if we didn't have a certain set of people that don't think there's anything wrong with it, other than it's not big enough.
(09-05-2012 08:45 AM)jh Wrote: The video talks about belonging to the government in the same way that people belong to clubs, churches, and other organizations. I belong to many organizations. I even belong to organizations which work at cross-purposes on some thing. I can do that because I am in no way shape or form owned by these organizations, just as I am not owned by any of the governments that I do belong to.
The difference between the "clubs" you mentioned and the government is that you are forced to interact with the government and contribute to its finances. Other than some idiotic union rules, nobody is forced to participate in 'clubs' and organizations. In that case, participation is voluntary. In the government, you are "voluntold".
Ok. So? How does that affect the message of the video? How is that different depending on which party is in power?
Even if Gary Johnson somehow wins the election and establishes a Libertarian paradise (no, that would not look like Somalia), and few things would make me happier, people would still be forced to interact with and fund the government. Unless you want to go full on anarchy there will always be cumpulsory interactions with the government. Government is force. That's why some argue that no government can ever be legitimate.
I don't find the video at all compelling. But I'm not going to pretend that it's indicitive of some kind of boogeyman lurking in the background. Democrats are usually quite open about wanting to expand the government (it's the Republicans you have to watch out for).
(09-05-2012 09:28 AM)Rebel Wrote: I find it all to be a Freudian revelation. Kinda like using the word "Forward" for your party slogan when that term has been associated with Socialist and Communist movements for the past 150 years.
And using "Lean Forward" as the slogan for your news network that cheers the most for said party.
(09-05-2012 07:46 AM)DaSaintFan Wrote: that one is going to be coming back to haunt all sort of Democrat elections this year, I do believe..
The day the last Democrat, Progressive, Communist, and/or Socialist dies off will be a very joyous occasion for America.
Yeah because America is becoming less progressive. Keep fighting the losing fight.
Glad you finally admitted you're a Communist. Progressivism is an offshoot of Communism. Actually, it was the term that was created to be more aesthetic than Communism, a word that wasn't popular here.
(09-05-2012 09:12 AM)miko33 Wrote: This video is nothing more than a "gotcha" moment that will pass by quickly. I watched this video and it's pretty clear that they did not mean to say that the gov't is in possession of us. The clip was trying to portray how everyone has voluntary associations in various social clubs, churches, and other social events. When you say you belong to a church it doesn't mean that the pastor of the church owns you. They were trying to make this a feeling of community amongst all of us. We all participate in our government by the fact that we vote our officials into office, and we make choices for who we want in based on their beliefs, etc., etc.
I'm not a democrat. I'm a registered republican, but think of myself more as having a libertarian spirit. Even I can see that this video was trying to convey a very different meaning to the idea that the government possesses us as property.
I find it all to be a Freudian revelation. Kinda like using the word "Forward" for your party slogan when that term has been associated with Socialist and Communist movements for the past 150 years.
Did you really make it this far in life by being so stupid?
By your logic, my favorite college teams fight song is communist because it is called 'Forward Falcons'
(09-05-2012 09:12 AM)miko33 Wrote: This video is nothing more than a "gotcha" moment that will pass by quickly. I watched this video and it's pretty clear that they did not mean to say that the gov't is in possession of us. The clip was trying to portray how everyone has voluntary associations in various social clubs, churches, and other social events. When you say you belong to a church it doesn't mean that the pastor of the church owns you. They were trying to make this a feeling of community amongst all of us. We all participate in our government by the fact that we vote our officials into office, and we make choices for who we want in based on their beliefs, etc., etc.
I'm not a democrat. I'm a registered republican, but think of myself more as having a libertarian spirit. Even I can see that this video was trying to convey a very different meaning to the idea that the government possesses us as property.
(09-05-2012 09:12 AM)miko33 Wrote: This video is nothing more than a "gotcha" moment that will pass by quickly. I watched this video and it's pretty clear that they did not mean to say that the gov't is in possession of us. The clip was trying to portray how everyone has voluntary associations in various social clubs, churches, and other social events. When you say you belong to a church it doesn't mean that the pastor of the church owns you. They were trying to make this a feeling of community amongst all of us. We all participate in our government by the fact that we vote our officials into office, and we make choices for who we want in based on their beliefs, etc., etc.
I'm not a democrat. I'm a registered republican, but think of myself more as having a libertarian spirit. Even I can see that this video was trying to convey a very different meaning to the idea that the government possesses us as property.
I find it all to be a Freudian revelation. Kinda like using the word "Forward" for your party slogan when that term has been associated with Socialist and Communist movements for the past 150 years.
Did you really make it this far in life by being so stupid?
By your logic, my favorite college teams fight song is communist because it is called 'Forward Falcons'
Words mean something, dick. So does a platform, avowed Communist mentors, printed words in books, and everything else.
(09-05-2012 09:28 AM)Rebel Wrote: I find it all to be a Freudian revelation. Kinda like using the word "Forward" for your party slogan when that term has been associated with Socialist and Communist movements for the past 150 years.
And using "Lean Forward" as the slogan for your news network that cheers the most for said party.
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Democrats: "We all belong to government"
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