someone took one of Ryan's better lines from last night and made this:

College graduates

Couldn't get the photo to post for some reason...

(08-30-2012 03:51 PM)Max Power Wrote:  Christ dude.

It's still deceiving w/r/t the plant. It closed under Bush. If Ryan wanted to criticize Obama for not using government money to RE-OPEN the plant, he should have said so. But he didn't, because that doesn't have the same ring.

That wasn't what his complaint was. He chastised CANDIDATE Obama for speaking at the specific plant and saying "I believe government is here to support you... this plant will be here for another hundred years." and it wasn't... so while certainly not the most heinous of crimes, you are making up what he said, and then accusing him of being wrong about what you said he said. Obama promised the workers at the Janesville plant that they would be winners if he was elected. They weren't. This is perhaps the closest thing you actually have to a lie. Its true, but Obama wasn't responsible for shutting the plant. Merely speaking to peopla worried about their jobs and implying that electing him would make any difference.

Quote:Yes Obamacare cut Medicare reimbursements to the private sector (insurance companies and hospitals). But Ryan misrepresents it in several ways. One, he included it in his own budget proposal that the House passed, so he's a hypocrite. Two, he's selling this "cut Medicare" notion to an audience of beneficiaries to convince them that their benefits might be impacted, even though they aren't. Three, the beneficiaries are actually helped by Obamacare because it closes the prescription drug donut hole. Fourth, it's not "removed" from anything (I assume you and Ryan mean the Medicare trust fund). It's a slowing of the growth of expenses. Money isn't being removed from the trust fund to pay for Obamacare. The trust fund's expenses over the next ten years is decreased by $700b. That's all, and you know it and he knows it.

He's removing it from the budget. It's money that was supposed to go into the trust fund and now isn't. You're telling AT LEAST as big a lie so that you can say he is lying. If your employer told you that you were going to earn 50k this year with 5k bincreases for each of the next 5 years, and then announced that your salary was going to stay the same, how would you respond when he said that he wasn't taking $75,000 away from you over the next 5 years?

If you knew anything about hospitals, you'd know that they contract with doctors based on their expected reimbursement... and if their reimbursements for doctors services go down, they will cut the contracts with doctors. Again, just as big a lie to claim he is lying.

Are you SURE you meant to say he cut medicare reimbursements to insurers, or ar you talking about insurers who provide services to medicare recipients in areas where medicare cant? You think paying less for service in an area where Medicare has already decided they can't pay enough to do it themselves WON'T result in fewer/less services? Where does THAT work for you?

Quote:The "You didn't build that" line clearly referred to roads and bridges. It was in the instantly preceding sentence. So we know what "that" was referring to (ie, the infrastructure and public goods that make success possible). If you can't admit that get over yourself.

But not in the sentences AFTER that. AFTER that he talked about all the people who work for you... how smart they were etc etc etc. and how THEY built it. It's posturing and semantics on both sides... but VERY far from a lie.

Quote:And the kicker is that the business Romney featured in his ad took out government loans to start their business.

So we're moving the bar again away from Ryan and the speech... okay...

I LOVE how you guys think that people should avoid taking opportunities that clearly serve a purpose of the government if they're going to argue that the purpose of the government isn't served. You realize that, right? A business deciding that a government program is an advantage is not the same as the government deciding that the business doesn't need the advantage... or that another one needs it more

Quote:Any of you who so much as claimed a mortgage interest tax deduction benefited from a government welfare program.

So NOT taking money away from the people who earned it because they spent it on things that the government wants to encourage is a welfare program??

So when Romney gave $2.4mm dollars to various charities, he was the recipient of a government welfare program?

Your logic is priceless.

(08-30-2012 11:30 AM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  Hell, I'm a Republican and I've pointed out more legitimate issues with Ryan than you've ever brought up and defended, other than ad-hominid attacks. Because that's all you have.

Are you sure Rob is a hominid?

Just like so many in the liberal press were commanded to print that Ryan's speech was full of lies, yet pretty much avoided pointing out the lies or outright lied themselves while trying to paint Ryan as a liar, Rob can't name anything. His critique consists mainly of the "he's a big doo doo head" and I don't like him.

Lies to liberal dem journalists are truths that are very inconvenient to their cause.

My favorite line last night (and I didn't watch but maybe 30 minutes total) was not from Ryan but Gov. Martinez.

In context, here is the quote.

Quote:I fear some of our leaders today have lost the courage to stand up. What we have now are politicians. They won’t offer real plans, and only stand up when they want to blame someone else.

And I don’t say that just because a Democrat is in the White House, I was a Democrat for many years, so were my parents.

Before I ran for district attorney, two Republicans invited my husband and me to lunch, and I knew a party switch was exactly what they wanted. So, I told Chuck, “We’ll be polite, enjoy a free lunch, and then say good-bye.” But we talked about issues — they never used the words Republican or Democrat, conservative or liberal. We talked about many issues, like welfare, is it the way of life or hand up? Talked about size of government, how much should it tax families and small businesses? And when we left that lunch, we got in the car and I looked over at Chuck and said, “I’ll be damned. We’re Republicans.”

(08-30-2012 01:42 PM)Max Power Wrote:  Fact: While Ryan blamed President Obama for the shut down of a GM plant in Janesville, Wisconsin, the plant was actually closed under President George W. Bush. Ryan actually asked for federal spending to save the plant, while Romney has criticized the auto industry bailout that President Obama ultimately enacted to prevent other plants from closing.

Actually the plant made two vehicles an SUV and a pick up truck. The SUV line was idled (note not closed) under Bush. The other line idled and factory closed uner Obama

April 23, 2009: The plant's medium-duty assembly line, which produced an Isuzu line, closes, ending vehicle production at the plant and resulting in the loss of 57 production jobs, according to the Gazette.

And the plant was not officially closed for some time after that. When Obama bought GM with tax payer money he could have save this plant.

"Mine starts with AC-DC and ends with Zepplin"- Paul Ryan

This guy is more like me than any canidate on a presidential ticket ever. He graduated from Miami in 1992 and I from Ohio in 1994. He grew up in 1980's playing atari and watching MTV.

(08-30-2012 03:51 PM)Max Power Wrote:  It's still deceiving w/r/t the plant. It closed under Bush. If Ryan wanted to criticize Obama for not using government money to RE-OPEN the plant, he should have said so. But he didn't, because that doesn't have the same ring.

Dear Max, April of 2009 left you a message...

It Reads as follows:

Obama is in office and 57 people at this factory are still making pickup trucks...

...young college graduates living in their parents house, looking up at faded Obama posters, wondering when their future will start...

(08-30-2012 07:20 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  

(08-30-2012 11:30 AM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  Hell, I'm a Republican and I've pointed out more legitimate issues with Ryan than you've ever brought up and defended, other than ad-hominid attacks. Because that's all you have.

Are you sure Rob is a hominid?

Just like so many in the liberal press were commanded to print that Ryan's speech was full of lies, yet pretty much avoided pointing out the lies or outright lied themselves while trying to paint Ryan as a liar, Rob can't name anything. His critique consists mainly of the "he's a big doo doo head" and I don't like him.

Lies to liberal dem journalists are truths that are very inconvenient to their cause.

My favorite line last night (and I didn't watch but maybe 30 minutes total) was not from Ryan but Gov. Martinez.

In context, here is the quote.

Quote:I fear some of our leaders today have lost the courage to stand up. What we have now are politicians. They won’t offer real plans, and only stand up when they want to blame someone else.

And I don’t say that just because a Democrat is in the White House, I was a Democrat for many years, so were my parents.

Before I ran for district attorney, two Republicans invited my husband and me to lunch, and I knew a party switch was exactly what they wanted. So, I told Chuck, “We’ll be polite, enjoy a free lunch, and then say good-bye.” But we talked about issues — they never used the words Republican or Democrat, conservative or liberal. We talked about many issues, like welfare, is it the way of life or hand up? Talked about size of government, how much should it tax families and small businesses? And when we left that lunch, we got in the car and I looked over at Chuck and said, “I’ll be damned. We’re Republicans.”

Says the moron that wears a tin foil hat and thinks Obama is a from Kenya and is a comunist Muslim. I know marijuana is popular in Colorado but have you thought about laying off for a while?

(08-31-2012 04:43 AM)OhioBobcatJohn Wrote:  "Mine starts with AC-DC and ends with Zepplin"- Paul Ryan

This guy is more like me than any canidate on a presidential ticket ever. He graduated from Miami in 1992 and I from Ohio in 1994. He grew up in 1980's playing atari and watching MTV.

I think this is the first time you have not said anything bad about Miami.

Btw, he was a fratboy so it will be interesting to hear the stories that come out from that time.