What the Colorado shootings painfully remind
us is the delicate truth that allows for civilized society to exist. This simple truth is that society can only exist
when the citizens agree to make morally correct decisions. When morality breaks down, no law will prevent people
from making immoral decisions. The Colorado shootings, while tragic, remind us that without the grace of God we
cannot hope to make morally correct decisions. All of us, because of our fallen nature, are capable of the same horrific
evil. The only thing that keeps us from succumbing to that is our desire to do good and avoid evil which is the
grace of God. When morality fails, when the supports of religion are knocked out, then civilized society cannot long
exist. As a Christian people, we pray for the victims and their families of all those involved in the shootings for healing
and peace. But we need to be concerned. The increasing violence of our society is a symptom not of a lack of
legal protection, but a symptom of a creeping moral decay that can only be remedied by a religious reawakening
and an instilling of a sense of right and wrong, a rightly formed conscience, and the grace to do what is right and
avoid doing evil.

But the "tolerant" left seeks none of that. They are kicking the stool out from under our society. To what end? What is the endgame they wish to accomplish?

Anarchy?

Look up Oikophobe. Might find some answers there.

(08-10-2012 12:13 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Father Dennis Paul is at St Joseph's Catholic Church over in Downers Grove, right? Or is he at St. Isadore's?

Why do you wish to know? Lived there? Know him personally? Trolling?

(08-10-2012 03:16 PM)NIUAlum90 Wrote:  

(08-10-2012 12:13 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Father Dennis Paul is at St Joseph's Catholic Church over in Downers Grove, right? Or is he at St. Isadore's?

Why do you wish to know? Lived there? Know him personally? Trolling?

Read the thread...he said in your copied post

We do not “hate” those who are proposing gay marriage—we simply see them as being erroneous in their opinion.
For those who disagree with our position, it is unfair to label the Church as “bigoted” or “homophobic”. Such terms
betray the very tolerance they preach others to have.

I then posted two very public examples by two Bishops and an Archbishop that contradict that statement and that appear to be in direct violation of Catechism 2358. Examples where the Roman Catholic Church, in full view of the worlds media, is directly advocating JAILING persons, simply because they are Gay or they support Gay persons.

I then said that I'd like to contact Father Dennis Paul and call on him to condemn, publically, Archbishop Job and Bishop Wright and to institute canonical charges against both of them for extreme, public, violations of Catechism 2358.

EVERY time a an anti-Gay catholic, speaking on a political issue, seeks to rationalize that the Catholic Church isn't bigoted against Gays, I'm going to bring up that the Roman Catholic Church, at its highest levels, is involved in direct, public, and ongoing advocacy of extreme human rights abuses against Gays. With no correction or clarification by a Vatican that micromanages all of its priests and nuns, especially on political issues that touch on dignity for openly Gay persons.

I wouldn't have asked you for which church I need to contact to simply ask Father Dennis Paul for his comments on the situation with the Roman Catholic Church's involvement in politics in Nigeria and Belize, but they're appears to be two churches that have Father Dennis Pauls in Chicagoland. But I guess I can just call of the churches and ask to speak to them (or if, most likely, he simply has duties at both churches) . And to ask him this...if the Roman Catholic Church can advocate legislation to throw all Gay persons in prison in other nations.....what's the cannonical proscription, if any, from the American Roman Catholic Church from doing the same. Especially since they are so involved in politics.

What's funny is the queers had Civil Unions in the bag if they just STFU. They tasted special treatment, and wanted more.

In the last 2 decades the Catholic church, some 20% of the US population, has been leaning more and more left (I can provide proof if you'd like). Obama, knowing absolutely knowing of Christianity though proclaiming to be a Christian, is attacking the Catholics by pushing things like forcing Catholics to buy birth control and to endorse homosexual marriage.

When you stop and consider how most people are followers, you'll see that as the Catholic church begins to turn so will the power. 20% of the population is a huge voting block... especially when you add in the Black Prosetant Churches who are slowly getting the whif of crap on their shoes.

Thanks for the post, it makes me smile.

(08-10-2012 04:17 PM)OLD DIRTY Wrote:  What's funny is the queers had Civil Unions in the bag if they just STFU. They tasted special treatment, and wanted more.

In the last 2 decades the Catholic church, some 20% of the US population, has been leaning more and more left (I can provide proof if you'd like). Obama, knowing absolutely knowing of Christianity though proclaiming to be a Christian, is attacking the Catholics by pushing things like forcing Catholics to buy birth control and to endorse homosexual marriage.

When you stop and consider how most people are followers, you'll see that as the Catholic church begins to turn so will the power. 20% of the population is a huge voting block... especially when you add in the Black Prosetant Churches who are slowly getting the whif of crap on their shoes.

Thanks for the post, it makes me smile.

Oh, the Catholic Church supports civil unions? Where? Link?

But the good news is that American Catholic laypeople increasingly are ignoring the politicians currently running their church on this issue.

Civil Unions would never be supported by anyone unless Gay people were going for EQUAL rights under the law (marriage). Its a temporary, Plessy v Fergusonesque, placeholder for people who see the injustice of the current situation but who cannot seem to understand that under American law, marriage is a SECULAR institution, with rights and benefits. Rights and benefits currently denied to Gay persons.

If we were demanding civil unions, there would be the same level of pushback, from exactly the same people. We're just going to skip that interim step and go directly for equal rights under the law.

If the GOP's elected politicians actually SUPPORTED civil unions, which they don't (with a few exceptions in the northeast and west coast) , and had made civil unions equal to marriage from a legal standpoint (e.g., rights and benefits) then you might have an argument. But they don't, so you don't.

Nobody is forcing the Catholic Church to do squat. Except for NOT take taxpayer benefits if they discriminate.

If "the right" abandoned "these social issues", it would lose 10 of its existing supporters for every 1 new supporter it might gain.

Where are they going to go?

(08-10-2012 04:55 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  If "the right" abandoned "these social issues", it would lose 10 of its existing supporters for every 1 new supporter it might gain.

Where are they going to go?

Well I'm voting 3rd party this year..

If nothing has a right or wrong, moral or immoral, where is the standard? Liberals cannot be held to a standard as they have NONE.

I noticed not one liberal counter argued this assertion.

Tom in lazybrook, instead of questioning a low level priest about his view on issues outside of his parish, question the Pope about the abuses in those places.

I was a theatre major in college and many of my friends are gay and lesbians. There is no clear cut black and white answer to this issue. I was merely pointing out the hypocracy on the left where "you need to believe my values or your a bigot." I have a different opinion than you. This country used to behave in a "I might not agree with your opinion, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. "

(08-10-2012 04:22 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Oh, the Catholic Church supports civil unions? Where? Link?

Nobody is forcing the Catholic Church to do squat. Except for NOT take taxpayer benefits if they discriminate.

Seems like I found the nerve ending not in your anus.

You missed the point completely here. I can reiterate it for you - certain lines have been drawn in the sand by the Catholics (including queer distortion of marriage), and Obama is too stupid to see them.

It's probably better that you don't understand.

*Bump*

Still no reply on this assertion.


If nothing has a right or wrong, moral or immoral, where is the standard? Liberals cannot be held to a standard as they have NONE.

Left: "We won't tolerate your intolerance!"
Right: "Oh yeah? We won't tolerate your intolerance of our intolerance!"

... and so forth.

Again...afraid to answer and have a solid defense to the question?

*Bump*

Still no reply on this assertion.


If nothing has a right or wrong, moral or immoral, where is the standard? Liberals cannot be held to a standard as they have NONE.

(08-18-2012 10:15 AM)NIUAlum90 Wrote:  Again...afraid to answer and have a solid defense to the question?

*Bump*

Still no reply on this assertion.


If nothing has a right or wrong, moral or immoral, where is the standard? Liberals cannot be held to a standard as they have NONE.

That's where you get wrong. Liberals do have standards. They are

1) In areas of personal morality, so long as the others action does not impact others, it is a personal choice, and should not be punished by society.

2) Society has a responsibility to help those less fortunate.

3) Government isn't perfect, but is the most effective way to ensure basic social needs... such as minimum living standards, healthcare access etc.

4) Economies and Markets aren't perfect. There are constraints within economies, such as monopolies, industries with inelastic price demand, oligopolies, etc., that sometimes require regulation to prevent abuse or to ensure that the markets operate as if that constraint wasnt there.

5) People are greedy. We ALL are to a certain extent. Sometimes people will endanger the public or the environment in order to make extra money. Thats why we need regulation and effective penalties for those that abuse the public or the environment.

6) The environment is a public good, that should not be damaged by private actors for private profit. As always, there are tradeoffs, but in the event that a tradeoff occurs, that private entity should be paying a premium to damage a good that it cannot own, the we cannot sell, and is owned by all of the public.

7) Taxes are unfortunate. Nobody enjoys paying them. But government must be paid somehow. And progressive taxation, which concentrates on disposable income, is the best way to raise revenue, without destroying our consumer driven economy.

8) Religion is fine. So long is it isn't subsidized by the state, promoted by the state, etc. The rights of those who have no religion should be accounted for in public policy regarding religion.

9) It is insanity to allow everyone to pack heat everywhere. The insane, criminals, etc. can go to a gun show and pick up what they want - no questions asked. That should end.

10) Firing, not hiring, or refusing to provide public accomodations on the basis of race, RELIGION, sexual orientation, sex, age, etc. is wrong and should be illegal. Discrimination exists. Its, sadly, a part of human nature and should be combatted.

11) If someone takes taxpayer subsidies, then the taxpayers have an interest in the output of that entity/person taking public subsidies. For example, doctors, who go to school at taxpayer funded medical schools, practice at taxpayer funded hospitals, and enjoy subsidized debt, have a debt to pay back to the society that provided those subsidies.