I Thought I remember him singing the praises of the BE after he came to WV from KSU, talking about how tough it is in the BE and how its going to be a war every night, or something to that affect.


"The thing about the Big East was it was a great conference, maybe the best in history,'' Huggins said. "But top to bottom I think the Big 12 is better.''

Indeed, while the Big East was brutal at the top - and that top sometimes stretched as far as 10 or 12 teams in the 16-team league - there were also softer spots. West Virginia seldom, if ever, lost to DePaul, Providence, Rutgers or South Florida."



Huggins Coach Speak Link

LOL. When the world gives you lemons, you make lemonade. What do you expect him to say? He has to recruit and coach there so he must sell it as the best. thing in the world. I couldnt careless they have moved on and so has the Big East

(08-10-2012 07:13 AM)Cubanbull Wrote:  LOL. When the world gives you lemons, you make lemonade. What do you expect him to say? He has to recruit and coach there so he must sell it as the best. thing in the world. I couldnt careless they have moved on and so has the Big East

Im so glad we blew them out in our last game. My bro went to WVU and bought tickets for the two of us for x-mas. He was talking so much chit and from the tip off to the final buzzer was just an unmitigated beat down. So great.

"...that top sometimes stretched as far as 10 or 12 teams in the 16-team league...

Uh, let's see, our top sometimes stretches 10-12 teams, and the B12 has TEN teams total, including TCU, Texas Tech and Iowa State.

(08-10-2012 07:33 AM)TripleA Wrote:  "...that top sometimes stretched as far as 10 or 12 teams in the 16-team league...

Uh, let's see, our top sometimes stretches 10-12 teams, and the B12 has TEN teams total, including TCU, Texas Tech and Iowa State.

Iowa State is not that bad actually. There were pretty solid last year with that big forward they had and they've been good in the past as well.

All this being said, I do agree with the points about the numbers. I hear it all the time from B1G fans here in Ohio. They'll point to the fact the Big East has 4 week teams at the bottom and argue the B1G goes 9-10 deep. They don't take into consideration 10-12 really good teams in the BE still is more than what they have in their league.

"Grey Goose is better top to bottom than Belvedere."
-Bob Huggins

Reminds me of when Calapari was at Memphis trying to put lipstick on the C-USA basketball pig. Can't blame em for trying.

(08-10-2012 07:52 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(08-10-2012 07:33 AM)TripleA Wrote:  "...that top sometimes stretched as far as 10 or 12 teams in the 16-team league...

Uh, let's see, our top sometimes stretches 10-12 teams, and the B12 has TEN teams total, including TCU, Texas Tech and Iowa State.

Iowa State is not that bad actually. There were pretty solid last year with that big forward they had and they've been good in the past as well.

All this being said, I do agree with the points about the numbers. I hear it all the time from B1G fans here in Ohio. They'll point to the fact the Big East has 4 week teams at the bottom and argue the B1G goes 9-10 deep. They don't take into consideration 10-12 really good teams in the BE still is more than what they have in their league.

I figured somebody would say that, but, still, if you list the top 75 or so best BB schools in the country, do you think of Iowa State? I don't. They don't really move the needle with most folks' perception nationwide.

This topic got me curious, so I went through the 2013 roster of each major BB conference, and I ranked teams (off the top of my head, w/o research) as Excellent, Good, Fair and Bad BB programs, based on overall performance, over a fairly long period of time. I'm not going to debate any of this, b/c everybody has their own impressions, but here are mine:

Big East

Excellent: Louisville, UConn, Memphis, Georgetown
Good: Marquette, Temple, Cincy, Villanova, Notre Dame
Fair: St. John's, USF, UCF, Houston, Rutgers
Poor: DePaul, Providence, Seton Hall, SMU

Big 12

Excellent: Kansas
Good: West Virginia, Texas, Baylor, Kansas State
Fair: Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Iowa State
Poor: Texas Tech, TCU

ACC

Excellent: UNC, Duke, Syracuse
Good: Florida State, Pitt, Clemson, NC State, Maryland
Fair: Georgia Tech, Virginia Tech, Virginia, Wake Forest, BC, Miami
Poor: None

SEC

Excellent: Kentucky
Good: Florida, Missouri, Tennessee, Vandy, Mississippi State
Fair: Arkansas, Alabama, South Carolina, Ole Miss, Texas A&M, Georgia
Poor: Auburn, LSU

Big Ten

Excellent: Ohio Sate, Indiana, Michigan State
Good: Wisconsin, Michigan, Purdue, Illinois, Minnesota
Fair: Iowa, Northwestern
Poor: Penn State, Nebraska

PAC 12

Excellent: UCLA, Arizona
Good: Stanford, Washington, Arizona State, Cal
Fair: Oregon, USC, Washington State, Oregon State
Poor: Colorado, Utah

My conclusions:

The BE still has the highest number of excellent teams.

The BE is deeper than any other conference (9 excellent or good teams, vs. 8 for the ACC and Big Ten). The other 3 conferences only have 5 or 6.

Top to bottom, I assigned a 4, 3, 2, 1 scale, corresponding to Excellent, Good, Fair and Poor. Results:

Total Points:
BE = 45
ACC = 39
Big Ten = 33
SEC = 33
PAC 12 = 30
B12 = 24

Average Score per Team:
ACC = 2.8
Big Ten = 2.75
BE = 2.5
PAC 12 = 2.5
B12 = 2.4
SEC = 2.4

So, top to bottom, taking averages, the ACC and the Big Ten are arguably more balanced. The B12 certainly has no argument for being the best, top to bottom, even being the smallest conference. In fact, they are closer to the worst in the top 6, rather than the best.

If you take everything in total, I'd say it's an argument between the BE and ACC for best BB conference, with the Big Ten third. The other three are essentially a tossup in any given year.

Sounds like Huggs may be tipping the sauce again.

(08-10-2012 08:55 AM)TripleA Wrote:  This topic got me curious, so I went through the 2013 roster of each major BB conference, and I ranked teams (off the top of my head, w/o research) as Excellent, Good, Fair and Bad BB programs, based on overall performance, over a fairly long period of time. I'm not going to debate any of this, b/c everybody has their own impressions, but here are mine:

Big East

Excellent: Louisville, UConn, Memphis, Georgetown
Good: Marquette, Temple, Cincy, Villanova, Notre Dame
Fair: St. John's, USF, UCF, Houston, Rutgers
Poor: DePaul, Providence, Seton Hall, SMU

Big 12

Excellent: Kansas
Good: West Virginia, Texas, Baylor, Kansas State
Fair: Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Iowa State
Poor: Texas Tech, TCU

ACC

Excellent: UNC, Duke, Syracuse
Good: Florida State, Pitt, Clemson, NC State, Maryland
Fair: Georgia Tech, Virginia Tech, Virginia, Wake Forest, BC, Miami
Poor: None

SEC

Excellent: Kentucky
Good: Florida, Missouri, Tennessee, Vandy, Mississippi State
Fair: Arkansas, Alabama, South Carolina, Ole Miss, Texas A&M, Georgia
Poor: Auburn, LSU

Big Ten

Excellent: Ohio Sate, Indiana, Michigan State
Good: Wisconsin, Michigan, Purdue, Illinois, Minnesota
Fair: Iowa, Northwestern
Poor: Penn State, Nebraska

PAC 12

Excellent: UCLA, Arizona
Good: Stanford, Washington, Arizona State, Cal
Fair: Oregon, USC, Washington State, Oregon State
Poor: Colorado, Utah

My conclusions:

The BE still has the highest number of excellent teams.

The BE is deeper than any other conference (9 excellent or good teams, vs. 8 for the ACC and Big Ten). The other 3 conferences only have 5 or 6.

Top to bottom, I assigned a 4, 3, 2, 1 scale, corresponding to Excellent, Good, Fair and Poor. Results:

Total Points:
BE = 45
ACC = 39
Big Ten = 33
SEC = 33
PAC 12 = 30
B12 = 24

Average Score per Team:
ACC = 2.8
Big Ten = 2.75
BE = 2.5
PAC 12 = 2.5
B12 = 2.4
SEC = 2.4

So, top to bottom, taking averages, the ACC and the Big Ten are arguably more balanced. The B12 certainly has no argument for being the best, top to bottom, even being the smallest conference. In fact, they are closer to the worst in the top 6, rather than the best.

If you take everything in total, I'd say it's an argument between the BE and ACC for best BB conference, with the Big Ten third. The other three are essentially a tossup in any given year.

Excellent post, I think the norm is BE or ACC as the best every year.

Uh...Huggins has to say what he has to say...but the fact is even going forward it is the BIG EAST, B1G & ACC as the "Big Dogs" of College Basketball.

(08-10-2012 08:55 AM)TripleA Wrote:  This topic got me curious, so I went through the 2013 roster of each major BB conference, and I ranked teams (off the top of my head, w/o research) as Excellent, Good, Fair and Bad BB programs, based on overall performance, over a fairly long period of time. I'm not going to debate any of this, b/c everybody has their own impressions, but here are mine:

Big East

Excellent: Louisville, UConn, Memphis, Georgetown
Good: Marquette, Temple, Cincy, Villanova, Notre Dame
Fair: St. John's, USF, UCF, Houston, Rutgers
Poor: DePaul, Providence, Seton Hall, SMU

Big 12

Excellent: Kansas
Good: West Virginia, Texas, Baylor, Kansas State
Fair: Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Iowa State
Poor: Texas Tech, TCU

ACC

Excellent: UNC, Duke, Syracuse
Good: Florida State, Pitt, Clemson, NC State, Maryland
Fair: Georgia Tech, Virginia Tech, Virginia, Wake Forest, BC, Miami
Poor: None

SEC

Excellent: Kentucky
Good: Florida, Missouri, Tennessee, Vandy, Mississippi State
Fair: Arkansas, Alabama, South Carolina, Ole Miss, Texas A&M, Georgia
Poor: Auburn, LSU

Big Ten

Excellent: Ohio Sate, Indiana, Michigan State
Good: Wisconsin, Michigan, Purdue, Illinois, Minnesota
Fair: Iowa, Northwestern
Poor: Penn State, Nebraska

PAC 12

Excellent: UCLA, Arizona
Good: Stanford, Washington, Arizona State, Cal
Fair: Oregon, USC, Washington State, Oregon State
Poor: Colorado, Utah

My conclusions:

The BE still has the highest number of excellent teams.

The BE is deeper than any other conference (9 excellent or good teams, vs. 8 for the ACC and Big Ten). The other 3 conferences only have 5 or 6.

Top to bottom, I assigned a 4, 3, 2, 1 scale, corresponding to Excellent, Good, Fair and Poor. Results:

Total Points:
BE = 45
ACC = 39
Big Ten = 33
SEC = 33
PAC 12 = 30
B12 = 24

Average Score per Team:
ACC = 2.8
Big Ten = 2.75
BE = 2.5
PAC 12 = 2.5
B12 = 2.4
SEC = 2.4

So, top to bottom, taking averages, the ACC and the Big Ten are arguably more balanced. The B12 certainly has no argument for being the best, top to bottom, even being the smallest conference. In fact, they are closer to the worst in the top 6, rather than the best.

If you take everything in total, I'd say it's an argument between the BE and ACC for best BB conference, with the Big Ten third. The other three are essentially a tossup in any given year.

Big East: move Memphis and Georgetown down to good and Providence and Seton Hall up to fair.

Big 12: move Okie State to good and Tech up to fair.

ACC: looks good.

SEC: I would move LSU up to fair

Big Ten: IU should drop down to good for now

PAC 12: Colorado and Utah should be bumped up while Oregon State should be dropped a notch.

Good overall post.

(08-10-2012 09:26 AM)bearcatlawjd Wrote:  

(08-10-2012 08:55 AM)TripleA Wrote:  This topic got me curious, so I went through the 2013 roster of each major BB conference, and I ranked teams (off the top of my head, w/o research) as Excellent, Good, Fair and Bad BB programs, based on overall performance, over a fairly long period of time. I'm not going to debate any of this, b/c everybody has their own impressions, but here are mine:

Big East

Excellent: Louisville, UConn, Memphis, Georgetown
Good: Marquette, Temple, Cincy, Villanova, Notre Dame
Fair: St. John's, USF, UCF, Houston, Rutgers
Poor: DePaul, Providence, Seton Hall, SMU

Big 12

Excellent: Kansas
Good: West Virginia, Texas, Baylor, Kansas State
Fair: Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Iowa State
Poor: Texas Tech, TCU

ACC

Excellent: UNC, Duke, Syracuse
Good: Florida State, Pitt, Clemson, NC State, Maryland
Fair: Georgia Tech, Virginia Tech, Virginia, Wake Forest, BC, Miami
Poor: None

SEC

Excellent: Kentucky
Good: Florida, Missouri, Tennessee, Vandy, Mississippi State
Fair: Arkansas, Alabama, South Carolina, Ole Miss, Texas A&M, Georgia
Poor: Auburn, LSU

Big Ten

Excellent: Ohio Sate, Indiana, Michigan State
Good: Wisconsin, Michigan, Purdue, Illinois, Minnesota
Fair: Iowa, Northwestern
Poor: Penn State, Nebraska

PAC 12

Excellent: UCLA, Arizona
Good: Stanford, Washington, Arizona State, Cal
Fair: Oregon, USC, Washington State, Oregon State
Poor: Colorado, Utah

My conclusions:

The BE still has the highest number of excellent teams.

The BE is deeper than any other conference (9 excellent or good teams, vs. 8 for the ACC and Big Ten). The other 3 conferences only have 5 or 6.

Top to bottom, I assigned a 4, 3, 2, 1 scale, corresponding to Excellent, Good, Fair and Poor. Results:

Total Points:
BE = 45
ACC = 39
Big Ten = 33
SEC = 33
PAC 12 = 30
B12 = 24

Average Score per Team:
ACC = 2.8
Big Ten = 2.75
BE = 2.5
PAC 12 = 2.5
B12 = 2.4
SEC = 2.4

So, top to bottom, taking averages, the ACC and the Big Ten are arguably more balanced. The B12 certainly has no argument for being the best, top to bottom, even being the smallest conference. In fact, they are closer to the worst in the top 6, rather than the best.

If you take everything in total, I'd say it's an argument between the BE and ACC for best BB conference, with the Big Ten third. The other three are essentially a tossup in any given year.

Big East: move Memphis and Georgetown down to good and Providence and Seton Hall up to fair.

Big 12: move Okie State to good and Tech up to fair.

ACC: looks good.

SEC: I would move LSU up to fair

Big Ten: IU should drop down to good for now

PAC 12: Colorado and Utah should be bumped up while Oregon State should be dropped a notch.

Good overall post.

I really didn't look at your other rankings Bearcat, but I agree with your assessment of the BE teams. I am almost tempted to move Marquette up. They have been damn good for a while now and were great in the past during the MacGuire days.

(08-10-2012 08:55 AM)TripleA Wrote:  This topic got me curious, so I went through the 2013 roster of each major BB conference, and I ranked teams (off the top of my head, w/o research) as Excellent, Good, Fair and Bad BB programs, based on overall performance, over a fairly long period of time. I'm not going to debate any of this, b/c everybody has their own impressions, but here are mine:

Big East

Excellent: Louisville, UConn, Memphis, Georgetown
Good: Marquette, Temple, Cincy, Villanova, Notre Dame
Fair: St. John's, USF, UCF, Houston, Rutgers
Poor: DePaul, Providence, Seton Hall, SMU

Big 12

Excellent: Kansas
Good: West Virginia, Texas, Baylor, Kansas State
Fair: Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Iowa State
Poor: Texas Tech, TCU

ACC

Excellent: UNC, Duke, Syracuse
Good: Florida State, Pitt, Clemson, NC State, Maryland
Fair: Georgia Tech, Virginia Tech, Virginia, Wake Forest, BC, Miami
Poor: None

SEC

Excellent: Kentucky
Good: Florida, Missouri, Tennessee, Vandy, Mississippi State
Fair: Arkansas, Alabama, South Carolina, Ole Miss, Texas A&M, Georgia
Poor: Auburn, LSU

Big Ten

Excellent: Ohio Sate, Indiana, Michigan State
Good: Wisconsin, Michigan, Purdue, Illinois, Minnesota
Fair: Iowa, Northwestern
Poor: Penn State, Nebraska

PAC 12

Excellent: UCLA, Arizona
Good: Stanford, Washington, Arizona State, Cal
Fair: Oregon, USC, Washington State, Oregon State
Poor: Colorado, Utah

My conclusions:

The BE still has the highest number of excellent teams.

The BE is deeper than any other conference (9 excellent or good teams, vs. 8 for the ACC and Big Ten). The other 3 conferences only have 5 or 6.

Top to bottom, I assigned a 4, 3, 2, 1 scale, corresponding to Excellent, Good, Fair and Poor. Results:

Total Points:
BE = 45
ACC = 39
Big Ten = 33
SEC = 33
PAC 12 = 30
B12 = 24

Average Score per Team:
ACC = 2.8
Big Ten = 2.75
BE = 2.5
PAC 12 = 2.5
B12 = 2.4
SEC = 2.4

So, top to bottom, taking averages, the ACC and the Big Ten are arguably more balanced. The B12 certainly has no argument for being the best, top to bottom, even being the smallest conference. In fact, they are closer to the worst in the top 6, rather than the best.

If you take everything in total, I'd say it's an argument between the BE and ACC for best BB conference, with the Big Ten third. The other three are essentially a tossup in any given year.

Interesting that in your BE list, 3 of 4 of the non-FB schools are poor in BB.

(08-10-2012 09:26 AM)bearcatlawjd Wrote:  

(08-10-2012 08:55 AM)TripleA Wrote:  This topic got me curious, so I went through the 2013 roster of each major BB conference, and I ranked teams (off the top of my head, w/o research) as Excellent, Good, Fair and Bad BB programs, based on overall performance, over a fairly long period of time. I'm not going to debate any of this, b/c everybody has their own impressions, but here are mine:

Big East

Excellent: Louisville, UConn, Memphis, Georgetown
Good: Marquette, Temple, Cincy, Villanova, Notre Dame
Fair: St. John's, USF, UCF, Houston, Rutgers
Poor: DePaul, Providence, Seton Hall, SMU

Big 12

Excellent: Kansas
Good: West Virginia, Texas, Baylor, Kansas State
Fair: Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Iowa State
Poor: Texas Tech, TCU

ACC

Excellent: UNC, Duke, Syracuse
Good: Florida State, Pitt, Clemson, NC State, Maryland
Fair: Georgia Tech, Virginia Tech, Virginia, Wake Forest, BC, Miami
Poor: None

SEC

Excellent: Kentucky
Good: Florida, Missouri, Tennessee, Vandy, Mississippi State
Fair: Arkansas, Alabama, South Carolina, Ole Miss, Texas A&M, Georgia
Poor: Auburn, LSU

Big Ten

Excellent: Ohio Sate, Indiana, Michigan State
Good: Wisconsin, Michigan, Purdue, Illinois, Minnesota
Fair: Iowa, Northwestern
Poor: Penn State, Nebraska

PAC 12

Excellent: UCLA, Arizona
Good: Stanford, Washington, Arizona State, Cal
Fair: Oregon, USC, Washington State, Oregon State
Poor: Colorado, Utah

My conclusions:

The BE still has the highest number of excellent teams.

The BE is deeper than any other conference (9 excellent or good teams, vs. 8 for the ACC and Big Ten). The other 3 conferences only have 5 or 6.

Top to bottom, I assigned a 4, 3, 2, 1 scale, corresponding to Excellent, Good, Fair and Poor. Results:

Total Points:
BE = 45
ACC = 39
Big Ten = 33
SEC = 33
PAC 12 = 30
B12 = 24

Average Score per Team:
ACC = 2.8
Big Ten = 2.75
BE = 2.5
PAC 12 = 2.5
B12 = 2.4
SEC = 2.4

So, top to bottom, taking averages, the ACC and the Big Ten are arguably more balanced. The B12 certainly has no argument for being the best, top to bottom, even being the smallest conference. In fact, they are closer to the worst in the top 6, rather than the best.

If you take everything in total, I'd say it's an argument between the BE and ACC for best BB conference, with the Big Ten third. The other three are essentially a tossup in any given year.

Big East: move Memphis and Georgetown down to good and Providence and Seton Hall up to fair.

Big 12: move Okie State to good and Tech up to fair.

ACC: looks good.

SEC: I would move LSU up to fair

Big Ten: IU should drop down to good for now

PAC 12: Colorado and Utah should be bumped up while Oregon State should be dropped a notch.

Good overall post.

Thanks. I said I wouldn't debate this, b/c it's pure opinion, but with the reasonable tenor of your post, I'll respond.

We probably vary some b/c I'm 65, and I've been following BB and FB for 60 years, that I can recall. In my mind, I went back to about 1985, the year the NCAA went to 64 teams. That's 27 years, so a lot of younger people will have a much different perspective about some teams. And I'm sure I let even older memories seep into my perspective, back to the early 1950s.

To specifics, as for Memphis, I listed 14 teams as "excellent." In 2007, BEFORE Memphis played the NCG with Kansas, ESPN did a mathematical analysis of CBB performance from 1985 to 2007, and Memphis came in 14th. And Memphis has had a number of ranked (roughly equivalent to excellent) teams in every decade since the 1950s. Plus, I'm a die-hard Memphis fan. If it's a toss-up between good and excellent, which way did you expect me to fall?

Georgetown, I think of them as a power, going back to Ewing. Providence and Seton Hall, I think your BE bias is showing. I think the majority of the country would agree with me, even though I do still recall Ernie D, lol.

Okie State, longer term (25-30 years), I disagree with you. Same with Texas Tech and Indiana. Long term perspective on my part.

LSU, yeah, I agree, looking longer term. I could move them up one, but doesn't really change the overall conclusions.

PAC 12? I don't follow them, and didn't look up their records, so that's the best I could do. Just my first impression. I'm not that interested in them, and I did this w/o research.

From that whole list., though, that's pretty close between us, considering there were no criteria, and only opinions.

(08-10-2012 09:57 AM)Bull Wrote:  Interesting that in your BE list, 3 of 4 of the non-FB schools are poor in BB.

I can say with 100% certainty I had no agenda, b/c I didn't realize that until you posted it.

So, who would you move where?

(08-10-2012 10:24 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-10-2012 09:57 AM)Bull Wrote:  Interesting that in your BE list, 3 of 4 of the non-FB schools are poor in BB.

I can say with 100% certainty I had no agenda, b/c I didn't realize that until you posted it.

So, who would you move where?

Seton Hall has made the NCAA tournament two times since 2004 and had a pretty good run with P. J. Carlesimo going to the NCAA championship game in 1989. Virginia Tech and Miami both would drop to poor, both have gone to the NCAA tournament once in the past decade. Outside of that one year for Miami they have not really done much in the NCAA tournament.

(08-10-2012 10:19 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-10-2012 09:26 AM)bearcatlawjd Wrote:  

(08-10-2012 08:55 AM)TripleA Wrote:  This topic got me curious, so I went through the 2013 roster of each major BB conference, and I ranked teams (off the top of my head, w/o research) as Excellent, Good, Fair and Bad BB programs, based on overall performance, over a fairly long period of time. I'm not going to debate any of this, b/c everybody has their own impressions, but here are mine:

Big East

Excellent: Louisville, UConn, Memphis, Georgetown
Good: Marquette, Temple, Cincy, Villanova, Notre Dame
Fair: St. John's, USF, UCF, Houston, Rutgers
Poor: DePaul, Providence, Seton Hall, SMU

Big 12

Excellent: Kansas
Good: West Virginia, Texas, Baylor, Kansas State
Fair: Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Iowa State
Poor: Texas Tech, TCU

ACC

Excellent: UNC, Duke, Syracuse
Good: Florida State, Pitt, Clemson, NC State, Maryland
Fair: Georgia Tech, Virginia Tech, Virginia, Wake Forest, BC, Miami
Poor: None

SEC

Excellent: Kentucky
Good: Florida, Missouri, Tennessee, Vandy, Mississippi State
Fair: Arkansas, Alabama, South Carolina, Ole Miss, Texas A&M, Georgia
Poor: Auburn, LSU

Big Ten

Excellent: Ohio Sate, Indiana, Michigan State
Good: Wisconsin, Michigan, Purdue, Illinois, Minnesota
Fair: Iowa, Northwestern
Poor: Penn State, Nebraska

PAC 12

Excellent: UCLA, Arizona
Good: Stanford, Washington, Arizona State, Cal
Fair: Oregon, USC, Washington State, Oregon State
Poor: Colorado, Utah

My conclusions:

The BE still has the highest number of excellent teams.

The BE is deeper than any other conference (9 excellent or good teams, vs. 8 for the ACC and Big Ten). The other 3 conferences only have 5 or 6.

Top to bottom, I assigned a 4, 3, 2, 1 scale, corresponding to Excellent, Good, Fair and Poor. Results:

Total Points:
BE = 45
ACC = 39
Big Ten = 33
SEC = 33
PAC 12 = 30
B12 = 24

Average Score per Team:
ACC = 2.8
Big Ten = 2.75
BE = 2.5
PAC 12 = 2.5
B12 = 2.4
SEC = 2.4

So, top to bottom, taking averages, the ACC and the Big Ten are arguably more balanced. The B12 certainly has no argument for being the best, top to bottom, even being the smallest conference. In fact, they are closer to the worst in the top 6, rather than the best.

If you take everything in total, I'd say it's an argument between the BE and ACC for best BB conference, with the Big Ten third. The other three are essentially a tossup in any given year.

Big East: move Memphis and Georgetown down to good and Providence and Seton Hall up to fair.

Big 12: move Okie State to good and Tech up to fair.

ACC: looks good.

SEC: I would move LSU up to fair

Big Ten: IU should drop down to good for now

PAC 12: Colorado and Utah should be bumped up while Oregon State should be dropped a notch.

Good overall post.

Thanks. I said I wouldn't debate this, b/c it's pure opinion, but with the reasonable tenor of your post, I'll respond.

We probably vary some b/c I'm 65, and I've been following BB and FB for 60 years, that I can recall. In my mind, I went back to about 1985, the year the NCAA went to 64 teams. That's 27 years, so a lot of younger people will have a much different perspective about some teams. And I'm sure I let even older memories seep into my perspective, back to the early 1950s.

To specifics, as for Memphis, I listed 14 teams as "excellent." In 2007, BEFORE Memphis played the NCG with Kansas, ESPN did a mathematical analysis of CBB performance from 1985 to 2007, and Memphis came in 14th. And Memphis has had a number of ranked (roughly equivalent to excellent) teams in every decade since the 1950s. Plus, I'm a die-hard Memphis fan. If it's a toss-up between good and excellent, which way did you expect me to fall?

Georgetown, I think of them as a power, going back to Ewing. Providence and Seton Hall, I think your BE bias is showing. I think the majority of the country would agree with me, even though I do still recall Ernie D, lol.

Okie State, longer term (25-30 years), I disagree with you. Same with Texas Tech and Indiana. Long term perspective on my part.

LSU, yeah, I agree, looking longer term. I could move them up one, but doesn't really change the overall conclusions.

PAC 12? I don't follow them, and didn't look up their records, so that's the best I could do. Just my first impression. I'm not that interested in them, and I did this w/o research.

From that whole list., though, that's pretty close between us, considering there were no criteria, and only opinions.

I understand your thought process and as an older fan as well, recognize the history of the game. However, players with the skills of Patrick Ewing, Alonzo Mourning, Allen Iverson and co. are no longer walking the halls at Georgetown. JTIII is not as good a coach as his father. They are good enough to be in the good category, but they have not been "excellent" for awhile.

My thing with WVU hoops is ... how will recruiting go for them being so isolated from the rest of the league? To be pre-emptive. indeed the Big East is more spread out, but for every Houston, there is an SMU not too far away. Same with UCF and USF. And the Big East is known to be a tough league with parity and depth. Listening to the ESPN Radio folks, Big 12 hoops is often viewed as Kansas & Nine Others.

The Big East was infinitely a better geographic fit. Though I doubt it will hurt their football talent, but I can see their isolation as a problem in attracting top hoops talent. But maybe I'm wrong?