(08-06-2012 10:14 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  Since the dawn of man, governments have killed far more people than religions have.

Hitler ... 8 million
Stalin ... 30 million
Mao ... 60 million

Religion was and is a tool of the government.

(08-07-2012 12:09 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(08-06-2012 10:14 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  Since the dawn of man, governments have killed far more people than religions have.

Hitler ... 8 million
Stalin ... 30 million
Mao ... 60 million

Religion was and is a tool of the government.

Stalin and Mao were both Atheist, Atheism is a tool of the government as well. You can't see the forest from the trees.

(08-06-2012 08:53 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(08-06-2012 07:26 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-06-2012 07:19 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(08-06-2012 05:59 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-06-2012 03:40 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  To the person putting together that image. - You wasted your time, you would have better spent that time if you, let's say, went fishing. Why, because it's irrelevant.

I disagree. It shows the negative side of organized *MAN*. There is nothing wrong with pointing that out and it is very relevant. We should all be aware of this faction of *MANKIND* and oppose it. Where I have a problem is that is shows none of the positive sides of the issue. Just yesterday *A GROUP OF PEOPLE* held a fund raiser for a member recently diagnosed with liver cancer. We raised enough to cover here medical deductible. I don't consider myself a staunch *HUMAN*...but...I understand the validity of faith.

Attacking people of faith in the manner he did omits that fact that people of no faith have no better of a history. The 20th century is as littered with Athiest who commit awful act as theist.

I, and most honest Christians, know that as individuals and groups of people churchgoers and people who are not church goers suck. Many Athiest get up on this high horse and pretend that if only they ran the show there would be no atrocities, no singling out and persecution of this or that group.

It's just not so.

I won't quibble over the semantics. The point still remains valid.

WHAT!!!! All you do is quibble. Man up.

I already did. Do I need to explain it clearer to you?..or maybe you need to just go up and read what I posted originally sans edit.

(08-07-2012 12:40 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(08-07-2012 12:09 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(08-06-2012 10:14 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  Since the dawn of man, governments have killed far more people than religions have.

Hitler ... 8 million
Stalin ... 30 million
Mao ... 60 million

Religion was and is a tool of the government.

Stalin and Mao were both Atheist, Atheism is a tool of the government as well. You can't see the forest from the trees.

Yes, it's definitely a tool of the government. That's why it's been persecuted, subjugated, terrorized, taboo'd, and attempted to be eradicated from human culture for millenia.

Atheism had nothing to do with the motivations of Stalin or Mao. Simply because they happened to claim no god proves nothing of their intent, and is an attempt to distract from the documented atrocities committed in the name of a religion over thousands of generations.

If you think atheism is a religion, then everyone is a polytheist: One religion for your god, and thousands upon thousands of religions for not believing in any other god.

(08-07-2012 11:47 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  Atheism had nothing to do with the motivations of Stalin or Mao.

You lose.

Seems you claim to be an atheist simply b/c you're too lazy to learn about the theology and philosophy of theism.

(08-07-2012 12:16 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(08-07-2012 11:47 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  Atheism had nothing to do with the motivations of Stalin or Mao.

You lose.

Seems you claim to be an atheist simply b/c you're too lazy to learn about the theology and philosophy of theism.

His ah-ha moment came when mommy and daddy did not give him enough attention.

(08-07-2012 12:16 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(08-07-2012 11:47 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  Atheism had nothing to do with the motivations of Stalin or Mao.

You lose.

Seems you claim to be an atheist simply b/c you're too lazy to learn about the theology and philosophy of theism.

When are you going to learn about theology and theism?

(08-07-2012 11:47 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  Atheism had nothing to do with the motivations of Stalin or Mao.

Is making up your own history fun?

(08-07-2012 12:46 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(08-07-2012 11:47 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  Atheism had nothing to do with the motivations of Stalin or Mao.

Is making up your own history fun?

I'm sure you can find many quotes where Stalin goes "Because there is no god, i'm going to kill you now."

or "In the name of all that is not holy, I condemn thee to death!" - Mao

you are trying to say that if A = B, then C MUST equal D, if only because I don't know of any E,F, and G's

Stalin combated religion (minorly, in comparison) order to further communism, as he thought it was incoherent with any sense of government progress under the communist regime.

Mao Zedong was irreligious to the extent that the rest of china is irreligious. Somewhere between 60-80% of china follows an ancestral honoring rather than deistic worship. Religion is completely irrelevant to his rule, despite declaring a strict equivalent of separation of church and state in government.

All this aside, it does not matter that you falsely believe that atheism is to blame for some mass genocides (disregarding the millions killed in the crusades, the spanish inquisition, and catholic dogma in general. Hell, if you decide to lump stalin and mao at the feet of atheism let's throw in the Black plague in there at the feet of religion [which killed 2/3 of the population of Europe], because if man hadn't descended into the dark ages governed by religion and spurning science, research, and medicine, the black plague very well may not have happened). It does not excuse what goes on REGULARLY in religion today. It's all an attempt to distract what apologist muslim / christians / Jews / mormons allow to happen in their culture. The worst you can blame at the hands of an atheist is someone, somewhere got their feelings hurt because he made fun of a notion that would have been laughed at if it hand't been taught for generations and written down in a 2000 year old book of campfire stories.

(08-07-2012 01:07 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(08-07-2012 12:46 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(08-07-2012 11:47 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  Atheism had nothing to do with the motivations of Stalin or Mao.

Is making up your own history fun?

I'm sure you can find many quotes where Stalin goes "Because there is no god, i'm going to kill you now.

or "In the name of all that is not holy, I condemn thee to death!" - Mao

Well neither spoke english so no direct quotes..

But if an atheist leader calls religion poison, outlaws it and then rounds up religious people and puts them in death camps you do the math.

(08-07-2012 01:07 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  let's throw in the Black plague in there at the feet of religion [which killed 2/3 of the population of Europe], because if man hadn't descended into the dark ages governed by religion and spurning science, research, and medicine, the black plague very well may not have happened).

You actually believe there was a "Dark Ages"? Seriously?

I am repeatedly stunned at the lack of general education by the libs on this board, but it's telling that it's connected to contention and strife. You pretend to have an opinion about religion, yet it's nothing more than bigotry and prejudice, the very bogeymen that libs love to cite in others. It's not that you know nothing of the subjects of history, philosophy and theology, but that what you think you know is almost all completely wrong.

You wrote:

Quote:Stalin combated religion (minorly, in comparison) order to further communism, as he thought it was incoherent with any sense of government progress under the communist regime.

And

Quote:Atheism had nothing to do with the motivations of Stalin or Mao.

Wow, Holy Cognitive Dissonance, Batman. I knew atheists had lower IQs, but still, wow.

When are we going to come to the conclusion that we all have lower IQ's then the omnipotent Dr. Torch?

Talk about a Superiority Complex...GEEZ, what a fool!

(08-07-2012 04:24 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  When are we going to come to the conclusion that we all have lower IQ's then the omnipotent Dr. Torch?

Talk about a Superiority Complex...GEEZ, what a fool!

Eh, he's been on ignore for a while. Making baseless, evidenceless claims and resorting to mockery every time will do that.

(08-07-2012 04:24 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  When are we going to come to the conclusion that we all have lower IQ's then the omnipotent Dr. Torch?

Talk about a Superiority Complex...GEEZ, what a fool!

I suppose they rank up there with the myths you post too.

Sorry that some of us deal in reality. Reality is what you call foolishness.

If ACTUAL reality is anything close to yours, then yeah...that's foolishness!

(08-08-2012 09:10 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  If ACTUAL reality is anything close to yours, then yeah...that's foolishness!

It is. So why do you hate reality so much? Why do you dislike science, historical research and empirical observation?

And you who are so critical of perceived minor errors in others, are more than willing to let pass the myth of the "Dark Ages", and many others that Kruciff posted in this thread alone? Why do you hold such a double standard?

Ummmm....sorry to burst your bubble, but I haven't even really read this thread since the initial post gave me a whopping headache! So I have no idea what your talking about. I only scanned the thread out of curiousity and found it quite amusing that every one of your responses espoused how great you are in comparison to others.

I seriously don't even think you realize how you sound

Just in case you weren't aware...here's a sample...

Quote:Wrong again.

Oh wait, you're wrong again.

You really aren't good at this whole "thinking" thing.

You lose.

You're too lazy to learn.

I am repeatedly stunned at the lack of general education.

It's not that you know nothing of the subjects of history, philosophy and theology, but that what you think you know is almost all completely wrong.

I knew atheists had lower IQs, but still, wow.

(08-07-2012 01:48 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(08-07-2012 01:07 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  let's throw in the Black plague in there at the feet of religion [which killed 2/3 of the population of Europe], because if man hadn't descended into the dark ages governed by religion and spurning science, research, and medicine, the black plague very well may not have happened).

You actually believe there was a "Dark Ages"? Seriously?

I am repeatedly stunned at the lack of general education by the libs on this board, but it's telling that it's connected to contention and strife. You pretend to have an opinion about religion, yet it's nothing more than bigotry and prejudice, the very bogeymen that libs love to cite in others. It's not that you know nothing of the subjects of history, philosophy and theology, but that what you think you know is almost all completely wrong.

You wrote:

Quote:Stalin combated religion (minorly, in comparison) order to further communism, as he thought it was incoherent with any sense of government progress under the communist regime.

And

Quote:Atheism had nothing to do with the motivations of Stalin or Mao.

Wow, Holy Cognitive Dissonance, Batman. I knew atheists had lower IQs, but still, wow.

You are still living in them.