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Palestinians outraged at reality
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Max Power Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Palestinians outraged at reality
(07-31-2012 07:06 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  You can't buy brains. Just take a look at what happens to a moron when he wins the lottery.

But you can buy education, or at least you can if you're not a Palestinian struggling to survive in war torn, blockaded Gaza.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_War#Effects
Quote:Along with a high casualty rate, there were multiple economic, industrial and medical effects of the Gaza War. The United Nations Development Programme warned that there will be long-term consequences of the attacks on Gaza because the livelihoods and assets of tens of thousands of Gaza civilians have been affected.[353]

Early estimates by independent contractors in Gaza say that Gaza lost nearly $2 billion in assets, including 4,000 homes destroyed.[354] The IDF destroyed 600–700 factories, small industries, workshops and business enterprises throughout the Gaza Strip,[355] 24 mosques, 31 security compounds, and 10 water or sewage lines.[356] The World Health Organization said that 34 health facilities (8 hospitals and 26 primary health care clinics) were damaged over the course of the offensive and the UNOCHA said that over 50 United Nations facilities sustained damage, of which 28 reported damage in the first three days of the operation.[357] On 22 January 2010, Israel paid $10.5 million in compensation to the United Nations for damages to UN property incurred during the Israeli offensive.[358]

A satellite-based damage assessment of the Gaza Strip by the United Nations revealed 2,692 destroyed and severely damaged buildings, 220 impact craters on roads and bridges with an estimated length of 167 km (104 mi) of paved and unpaved roads damaged, 714 impact craters on open ground or cultivated land with an estimated land area of 2,100 hectares (21 km²), 187 greenhouses completely destroyed or severely damaged with an estimated area of 28 hectares (0.28 km²), and 2,232 hectares (22.32 km²) of demolished zones targeted by IDF bulldozers, tanks and phosphorus shelling.[359]

The Emergency Relief Coordinator of the United Nations has stated that after the end of the Israeli operation, at best, only 120 truckloads get into Gaza, instead of the normal daily requirement, including commercial traffic, of 500 trucks at minimum. It is also reported in his statement and other UN humanitarian office reports that essential items such as construction materials, water pipes, electrical wires, and transformers continue to be effectively banned, or only allowed infrequently.[391][395][396][397] He also stated that commercial goods must be allowed in and out, since Gaza Palestinians "do not want or deserve to be dependent on humanitarian aid" and that the "limited trickle" of items into Gaza continue the effective collective punishment of the civilian population and force the counter-productive reliance on tunnels for daily essentials.[395][398]

An initial survey conducted by the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) estimates that 14,000 homes, 68 government buildings, and 31 non-governmental organization offices (NGOs) were either totally or partially damaged, creating about 600,000 tonnes of concrete rubble needing to be removed.[397] Since 2007, Israel has not permitted the entry of construction material into Gaza, adversely affecting UN projects, in particular UNRWA and UNDP, which were forced to suspend more than $100 million in construction projects due to lack of materials.[396]

The United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs reported that the Gaza humanitarian crisis is significant and should not be understated. It also states that the situation is a "human dignity crisis" in the Gaza strip, entailing "a massive destruction of livelihoods and a significant deterioration of infrastructure and basic services". Fear and panic are widespread; 80% of the population could not support themselves and were dependent on humanitarian assistance.[6] The International Red Cross said the situation was "intolerable" and a "full blown humanitarian crisis".[387] The importation of necessary food and supplies continues to be blocked even after the respective ceasefires.[388] According to the World Food Programme, the UN's Food and Agriculture Organization and Palestinian officials, between 35% and 60% of the agriculture industry was wrecked. With extensive damage occurring to water sources, greenhouses, and farmland. It is estimated that 60% of the agricultural land in the north of the Strip may no longer be arable.[389][390] More than 50,800 Gazans were left homeless.[354] Extensive destruction was caused to commercial enterprises and to public infrastructure. According to Palestinian industrialists, 219 factories were destroyed or severely damaged during the Israeli military operation. They accounted as part of the 3% of industrial capacity that was operating after the Israeli blockade was imposed, which was mostly destroyed during the operation.[391]

Quote:Please enlighten us. What is it now? That they drink the blood of babies? Or is it that they actually have the gall to defend themselves?

Every oppressor in history argues they're "just defending themselves."

Operation Cast Lead was an atrocious massacre of Palestinians. Is this your idea of "defending themselves?"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_War#Co...ng_tactics
Quote:Israel was widely criticised by human rights groups for using heavy firepower and causing hundreds of civilian casualties.[305] A group of soldiers who took part in the conflict echoed the criticism through both the Israeli NGO Breaking the Silence and a special report by Israeli filmmaker Nurit Kedar that was shown on Britain's Channel 4 in January 2011.[306][307] The United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict concluded that the Israeli military operation was directed at the people of Gaza as a whole, in furtherance of an overall and continuing policy aimed at punishing the Gaza population, and in a deliberate policy of disproportionate force aimed at the civilian population.[308]

Quote:On March 24, a report from the UN team responsible for the protection of children in war zones was released, it found "hundreds" of violations of the rights of children and accused Israeli soldiers of using children as human shields, bulldozing a home with a woman and child still inside, and shelling a building they had ordered civilians into a day earlier.[310] One case involved using an 11-year-old boy as a human shield, by forcing him to enter suspected buildings first and also inspect bags. The report also mentioned the boy was used as a shield when Israeli soldiers came under fire.[310][311] The Guardian has also received testimony from three Palestinian brothers aged 14, 15, and 16, who all claimed to have been used as human shields.[312]

The UK newspaper The Guardian conducted an investigation of its own, which, according to the paper, uncovered evidence of war crimes including the use of Palestinian children as human shields.[313]

The UN fact-finding mission investigated four incidents in which Palestinian civilians were coerced, blindfolded, handcuffed and at gunpoint to enter houses ahead of Israeli soldiers during military operations. The mission confirmed the continued use of this practice with published testimonies of Israeli soldiers who had taken part in the military operations. The mission concluded that these practices amounted to using civilians as human shields in breach of international law. Civilians were also questioned under threat of death or injury to extract information about Palestinian combatants and tunnels, constituting a further violation of international humanitarian law.[47]

Israel was built by its armies who were "defending themselves" from Palestinians living in their homes--

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benny_Morris
Quote:In his first The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem, 1947-1949 (1988), Morris argues that the 700,000 Palestinians who fled their homes in 1947 left mostly due to Israeli military attacks; fear of impending attacks; and expulsions. He argues that there was no centralized expulsion policy as such, but expulsions were ordered by the Israeli high command as needed. This was a controversial position when Morris first wrote of it; the official position in Israel was that the Palestinians had left voluntarily, or under pressure from Palestinian or other Arab leaders. At the same time, Morris documents atrocities by the Israelis, including cases of rape and torture. The book shows a map of 228 empty Palestinian villages, and attempts to explain why the villagers left. In 41 villages, he writes, the inhabitants were expelled by the IDF; in another 90, residents fled because of attacks on other villages; and in six, they left under instructions from local Palestinian authorities. He was unable to find out why another 46 villages were abandoned.

When will we see evidence of this "education" you keep bragging about?
(This post was last modified: 08-01-2012 11:06 AM by Max Power.)
08-01-2012 11:04 AM
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Paul M Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Palestinians outraged at reality
Cross outside the Israeli border. What's it like on the other side?
08-01-2012 11:23 AM
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Fo Shizzle Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Palestinians outraged at reality
The victor always gets to write the history. I understand the Israeli's stance and support their sovereignty. They are not however without their own moments of unmitigated violence.
08-01-2012 11:23 AM
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I'mMoreAwesomeThanYou Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Palestinians outraged at reality
I don't think everyone on this board knows how Israel became an independent state. I'm sure I'm leaving something out so feel free to comment.

Circa 1947, post holocaust(the Axis's failed attempt to exterminate the Jews), the League of Nations voted to award Israel the land it now holds. The land was under British control, not Palestinian. Before that I think it was under French control and someone else before that(back to the Ottomans). The point is the Palestinians haven't had their own state for centuries. The land was given to Israel from the British. The day Israel raised their flag they were attacked by the Palestine's and several neighboring countries. As a result of the "war" Israel now occupies part of the Gaza strip, West Bank, Sinai Peninsula, and more importantly the Golan Heights. The Golan Heights is a strategic area that overlooks Syria and Israel so its importance from a strategic standpoint can't be understated. If they didn't want to risk losing land they shouldn't have attacked. Ask the British how the revolutionary war turned out.

The idea that the land belongs to the Palestine's is crazy. It hasn't been theirs for CENTURIES.

Can someone name the capital city of Palestine? How about their currency? Any leadership recognized globally? Exactly.

Maybe we should give Texas back to Mexico or America back to the Native Americans.

Can we please stop with all the "Zionist Occupiers" BS. America didn't give them the land and we haven't given financial assistance for years. Israel is our ally and the closest thing to a republic in that backwards part of the world. We should help those who share our values and IMO Israel and the USA share some of the same values. As closely as any two nations can these days.
08-01-2012 12:24 PM
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RobertN Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Palestinians outraged at reality
(08-01-2012 12:24 PM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  I don't think everyone on this board knows how Israel became an independent state. I'm sure I'm leaving something out so feel free to comment.

Circa 1947, post holocaust(the Axis's failed attempt to exterminate the Jews), the League of Nations voted to award Israel the land it now holds. The land was under British control, not Palestinian. Before that I think it was under French control and someone else before that(back to the Ottomans). The point is the Palestinians haven't had their own state for centuries. The land was given to Israel from the British. The day Israel raised their flag they were attacked by the Palestine's and several neighboring countries. As a result of the "war" Israel now occupies part of the Gaza strip, West Bank, Sinai Peninsula, and more importantly the Golan Heights. The Golan Heights is a strategic area that overlooks Syria and Israel so its importance from a strategic standpoint can't be understated. If they didn't want to risk losing land they shouldn't have attacked. Ask the British how the revolutionary war turned out.

The idea that the land belongs to the Palestine's is crazy. It hasn't been theirs for CENTURIES.

Can someone name the capital city of Palestine? How about their currency? Any leadership recognized globally? Exactly.

Maybe we should give Texas back to Mexico or America back to the Native Americans.

Can we please stop with all the "Zionist Occupiers" BS. America didn't give them the land and we haven't given financial assistance for years. Israel is our ally and the closest thing to a republic in that backwards part of the world. We should help those who share our values and IMO Israel and the USA share some of the same values. As closely as any two nations can these days.
You seemed to have left out the truth.
08-01-2012 12:34 PM
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BleedsHuskieRed Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Palestinians outraged at reality
(08-01-2012 12:34 PM)RobertN Wrote:  
(08-01-2012 12:24 PM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  I don't think everyone on this board knows how Israel became an independent state. I'm sure I'm leaving something out so feel free to comment.

Circa 1947, post holocaust(the Axis's failed attempt to exterminate the Jews), the League of Nations voted to award Israel the land it now holds. The land was under British control, not Palestinian. Before that I think it was under French control and someone else before that(back to the Ottomans). The point is the Palestinians haven't had their own state for centuries. The land was given to Israel from the British. The day Israel raised their flag they were attacked by the Palestine's and several neighboring countries. As a result of the "war" Israel now occupies part of the Gaza strip, West Bank, Sinai Peninsula, and more importantly the Golan Heights. The Golan Heights is a strategic area that overlooks Syria and Israel so its importance from a strategic standpoint can't be understated. If they didn't want to risk losing land they shouldn't have attacked. Ask the British how the revolutionary war turned out.

The idea that the land belongs to the Palestine's is crazy. It hasn't been theirs for CENTURIES.

Can someone name the capital city of Palestine? How about their currency? Any leadership recognized globally? Exactly.

Maybe we should give Texas back to Mexico or America back to the Native Americans.

Can we please stop with all the "Zionist Occupiers" BS. America didn't give them the land and we haven't given financial assistance for years. Israel is our ally and the closest thing to a republic in that backwards part of the world. We should help those who share our values and IMO Israel and the USA share some of the same values. As closely as any two nations can these days.
You seemed to have left out the truth.
Give us a history lesson then! As someone who minored in history with a focus on 20th century United States I would love to hear what happened. It is fascinating!
(This post was last modified: 08-01-2012 12:38 PM by BleedsHuskieRed.)
08-01-2012 12:37 PM
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I'mMoreAwesomeThanYou Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Palestinians outraged at reality
(08-01-2012 12:37 PM)BleedsHuskieRed Wrote:  
(08-01-2012 12:34 PM)RobertN Wrote:  
(08-01-2012 12:24 PM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  I don't think everyone on this board knows how Israel became an independent state. I'm sure I'm leaving something out so feel free to comment.

Circa 1947, post holocaust(the Axis's failed attempt to exterminate the Jews), the League of Nations voted to award Israel the land it now holds. The land was under British control, not Palestinian. Before that I think it was under French control and someone else before that(back to the Ottomans). The point is the Palestinians haven't had their own state for centuries. The land was given to Israel from the British. The day Israel raised their flag they were attacked by the Palestine's and several neighboring countries. As a result of the "war" Israel now occupies part of the Gaza strip, West Bank, Sinai Peninsula, and more importantly the Golan Heights. The Golan Heights is a strategic area that overlooks Syria and Israel so its importance from a strategic standpoint can't be understated. If they didn't want to risk losing land they shouldn't have attacked. Ask the British how the revolutionary war turned out.

The idea that the land belongs to the Palestine's is crazy. It hasn't been theirs for CENTURIES.

Can someone name the capital city of Palestine? How about their currency? Any leadership recognized globally? Exactly.

Maybe we should give Texas back to Mexico or America back to the Native Americans.

Can we please stop with all the "Zionist Occupiers" BS. America didn't give them the land and we haven't given financial assistance for years. Israel is our ally and the closest thing to a republic in that backwards part of the world. We should help those who share our values and IMO Israel and the USA share some of the same values. As closely as any two nations can these days.
You seemed to have left out the truth.
Give us a history lesson then! As someone who minored in history with a focus on 20th century United States I would love to hear what happened. It is fascinating!

Does my memory serve me well? I would look it up but I'm not in the office right now.
08-01-2012 01:39 PM
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RobertN Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Palestinians outraged at reality
(08-01-2012 12:37 PM)BleedsHuskieRed Wrote:  
(08-01-2012 12:34 PM)RobertN Wrote:  
(08-01-2012 12:24 PM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  I don't think everyone on this board knows how Israel became an independent state. I'm sure I'm leaving something out so feel free to comment.

Circa 1947, post holocaust(the Axis's failed attempt to exterminate the Jews), the League of Nations voted to award Israel the land it now holds. The land was under British control, not Palestinian. Before that I think it was under French control and someone else before that(back to the Ottomans). The point is the Palestinians haven't had their own state for centuries. The land was given to Israel from the British. The day Israel raised their flag they were attacked by the Palestine's and several neighboring countries. As a result of the "war" Israel now occupies part of the Gaza strip, West Bank, Sinai Peninsula, and more importantly the Golan Heights. The Golan Heights is a strategic area that overlooks Syria and Israel so its importance from a strategic standpoint can't be understated. If they didn't want to risk losing land they shouldn't have attacked. Ask the British how the revolutionary war turned out.

The idea that the land belongs to the Palestine's is crazy. It hasn't been theirs for CENTURIES.

Can someone name the capital city of Palestine? How about their currency? Any leadership recognized globally? Exactly.

Maybe we should give Texas back to Mexico or America back to the Native Americans.

Can we please stop with all the "Zionist Occupiers" BS. America didn't give them the land and we haven't given financial assistance for years. Israel is our ally and the closest thing to a republic in that backwards part of the world. We should help those who share our values and IMO Israel and the USA share some of the same values. As closely as any two nations can these days.
You seemed to have left out the truth.
Give us a history lesson then! As someone who minored in history with a focus on 20th century United States I would love to hear what happened. It is fascinating!
You majored in 04-cheers so I have my doubts you remember a damn thing in your minor.
(This post was last modified: 08-01-2012 01:48 PM by RobertN.)
08-01-2012 01:47 PM
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BleedsHuskieRed Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Palestinians outraged at reality
(08-01-2012 01:47 PM)RobertN Wrote:  
(08-01-2012 12:37 PM)BleedsHuskieRed Wrote:  
(08-01-2012 12:34 PM)RobertN Wrote:  
(08-01-2012 12:24 PM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  I don't think everyone on this board knows how Israel became an independent state. I'm sure I'm leaving something out so feel free to comment.

Circa 1947, post holocaust(the Axis's failed attempt to exterminate the Jews), the League of Nations voted to award Israel the land it now holds. The land was under British control, not Palestinian. Before that I think it was under French control and someone else before that(back to the Ottomans). The point is the Palestinians haven't had their own state for centuries. The land was given to Israel from the British. The day Israel raised their flag they were attacked by the Palestine's and several neighboring countries. As a result of the "war" Israel now occupies part of the Gaza strip, West Bank, Sinai Peninsula, and more importantly the Golan Heights. The Golan Heights is a strategic area that overlooks Syria and Israel so its importance from a strategic standpoint can't be understated. If they didn't want to risk losing land they shouldn't have attacked. Ask the British how the revolutionary war turned out.

The idea that the land belongs to the Palestine's is crazy. It hasn't been theirs for CENTURIES.

Can someone name the capital city of Palestine? How about their currency? Any leadership recognized globally? Exactly.

Maybe we should give Texas back to Mexico or America back to the Native Americans.

Can we please stop with all the "Zionist Occupiers" BS. America didn't give them the land and we haven't given financial assistance for years. Israel is our ally and the closest thing to a republic in that backwards part of the world. We should help those who share our values and IMO Israel and the USA share some of the same values. As closely as any two nations can these days.
You seemed to have left out the truth.
Give us a history lesson then! As someone who minored in history with a focus on 20th century United States I would love to hear what happened. It is fascinating!
You majored in 04-cheers so I have my doubts you remember a damn thing in your minor.
So you sideswipe the question with a comment on what I did in my spare time during college. How about you give us a history lesson on the middle east, with a focus on Israel, how they came to be, and the reasons for the cold relations between them and their neighbors.
08-01-2012 01:52 PM
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I'mMoreAwesomeThanYou Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Palestinians outraged at reality
(08-01-2012 12:37 PM)BleedsHuskieRed Wrote:  
(08-01-2012 12:34 PM)RobertN Wrote:  
(08-01-2012 12:24 PM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  I don't think everyone on this board knows how Israel became an independent state. I'm sure I'm leaving something out so feel free to comment.

Circa 1947, post holocaust(the Axis's failed attempt to exterminate the Jews), the League of Nations voted to award Israel the land it now holds. The land was under British control, not Palestinian. Before that I think it was under French control and someone else before that(back to the Ottomans). The point is the Palestinians haven't had their own state for centuries. The land was given to Israel from the British. The day Israel raised their flag they were attacked by the Palestine's and several neighboring countries. As a result of the "war" Israel now occupies part of the Gaza strip, West Bank, Sinai Peninsula, and more importantly the Golan Heights. The Golan Heights is a strategic area that overlooks Syria and Israel so its importance from a strategic standpoint can't be understated. If they didn't want to risk losing land they shouldn't have attacked. Ask the British how the revolutionary war turned out.

The idea that the land belongs to the Palestine's is crazy. It hasn't been theirs for CENTURIES.

Can someone name the capital city of Palestine? How about their currency? Any leadership recognized globally? Exactly.

Maybe we should give Texas back to Mexico or America back to the Native Americans.

Can we please stop with all the "Zionist Occupiers" BS. America didn't give them the land and we haven't given financial assistance for years. Israel is our ally and the closest thing to a republic in that backwards part of the world. We should help those who share our values and IMO Israel and the USA share some of the same values. As closely as any two nations can these days.
You seemed to have left out the truth.
Give us a history lesson then! As someone who minored in history with a focus on 20th century United States I would love to hear what happened. It is fascinating!

I have Robert blocked but since you quoted him in your post I'm going to reply. I like how Robert try's to insult me then uses a word incorrectly in his post. In that context its not "seemed" Robert. It's "seem". Do the world a favor and stop posting.
08-01-2012 02:05 PM
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MileHighBronco Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Palestinians outraged at reality
(07-31-2012 02:09 PM)Max Power Wrote:  Yeah, Israel's success has nothing to do with the billions in free money and interest free loans we give them every year, and the occupied territories' problems have nothing to do with the fact they're occupied (meaning they aren't free to travel or import/export, have their homes bulldozed and have Israelies building settlements on their land etc).

Your moronic talking points are easily refuted. Palestinians were given the option of their own state during peace talks in the past and they refused it. They have a single minded focus - destroy Israel. They don't care about creating a successful society. They spend money, time and energy indoctrinating their kids with anti-Israel cartoons.

The unspoken fact is that the Palestinians serve several useful purposes for the hostile Arab countries surrounding Israel - they are a convenient "reason" for hating Israel. They keep things stirred up in the region and, other than Iran's proxies, Hamas and Hezbollah, help to keep tensions high.

What you won't hear is the truth that the Palestinians are the unwanted refugees and instigators that no other Arab country wants in their territory.
(This post was last modified: 08-01-2012 02:48 PM by MileHighBronco.)
08-01-2012 02:47 PM
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Post: #32
RE: Palestinians outraged at reality
(08-01-2012 02:47 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  
(07-31-2012 02:09 PM)Max Power Wrote:  Yeah, Israel's success has nothing to do with the billions in free money and interest free loans we give them every year, and the occupied territories' problems have nothing to do with the fact they're occupied (meaning they aren't free to travel or import/export, have their homes bulldozed and have Israelies building settlements on their land etc).

Your moronic talking points are easily refuted. Palestinians were given the option of their own state during peace talks in the past and they refused it. They have a single minded focus - destroy Israel. They don't care about creating a successful society. They spend money, time and energy indoctrinating their kids with anti-Israel cartoons.

The unspoken fact is that the Palestinians serve several useful purposes for the hostile Arab countries surrounding Israel - they are a convenient "reason" for hating Israel. They keep things stirred up in the region and, other than Iran's proxies, Hamas and Hezbollah, help to keep tensions high.

What you won't hear is the truth that the Palestinians are the unwanted refugees and instigators that no other Arab country wants in their territory.

I actually hear that truth quite a bit, not sure why you'd say that it's unspoken or unheard?

EDIT: But you're being pretty simplistic in your comparison of palestinian and israeli societies. There are horrible people who live in palestine, yes, and who deserve nothing more than the way Israel treats them, but there are also just large numbers of refugees with absolutely nowhere to go but to suffer in lifelong purgatory of being the pawn between two regional powers.
(This post was last modified: 08-01-2012 11:21 PM by UCF08.)
08-01-2012 11:19 PM
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nomad2u2001 Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Palestinians outraged at reality
I don't care much at all for Israel but they do treat their Muslim population better than some other Muslim countries. I'm just not so in love with them as others are.
08-01-2012 11:45 PM
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Max Power Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Palestinians outraged at reality
The Daily Show had a hilarious takedown of Romney's comments on Tuesday (pretty much what I was saying), with Al Madrigal standing in front of the West Bank Wall and ignoring the reality of checkpoints and bulldozed homes (saying Americans would make rubble-aid out of rubble) in defending Romney's claim about culture, and Jon Stewart trying to correct him--

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-ju...ney-abroad
08-02-2012 10:50 AM
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Post: #35
RE: Palestinians outraged at reality
(08-02-2012 10:50 AM)Max Power Wrote:  The Daily Show had a hilarious takedown of Romney's comments on Tuesday (pretty much what I was saying),

Much of what you say is hilarious. That is true.
08-02-2012 11:03 AM
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RobertN Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Palestinians outraged at reality
(08-02-2012 10:50 AM)Max Power Wrote:  The Daily Show had a hilarious takedown of Romney's comments on Tuesday (pretty much what I was saying), with Al Madrigal standing in front of the West Bank Wall and ignoring the reality of checkpoints and bulldozed homes (saying Americans would make rubble-aid out of rubble) in defending Romney's claim about culture, and Jon Stewart trying to correct him--

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-ju...ney-abroad
03-lmfao Good stuff.
08-02-2012 11:27 AM
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Post: #37
RE: Palestinians outraged at reality
The Palestinian Culture vs. Israeli Government Occupation argument is not mutually exclusive, but rather a cause-and-effect.

Sure, the Israeli government's control, red tape and countless roadblocks will certainly impact labor and business logistics systems. It's essentially the antithesis to economic freedom.

But the million dollar question is how would Israel loosen the economic clamps while not sacrificing its own security? If too many kids are growing up into adults rejecting the idea of living side-by-side with "the Zionists", all the while receiving a steady diet of Jew-hate indoctrination and perpetual victimhood, then little good will come from it. And the stifling occupation and roadside shakedowns will continue. It's really a never-ending cycle.

As an aside: Jordan treated the Palestinians worse back in the 70s than Israel does now.
08-02-2012 11:46 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Palestinians outraged at reality
Further aside: Pretty much all Arab countries have treated the Palestinians worse for 3000 years than Israel does now.

Bottom line: There simply isn't enough of Israel to divide between Jews and Palestinians in any way that preserves Israel's ability to survive while giving the Palestinians a decent shot at a viable nation and economy. It simply cannot be done. The proposal on the table--the 1949-1967 borders--does neither. Doesn't even come remotely close to doing either.
(This post was last modified: 08-02-2012 11:52 AM by Owl 69/70/75.)
08-02-2012 11:51 AM
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DrTorch Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Palestinians outraged at reality
(08-02-2012 11:51 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Further aside: Pretty much all Arab countries have treated the Palestinians worse for 3000 years than Israel does now.

This!

Quote:Bottom line: There simply isn't enough of Israel to divide between Jews and Palestinians in any way that preserves Israel's ability to survive while giving the Palestinians a decent shot at a viable nation and economy. It simply cannot be done. The proposal on the table--the 1949-1967 borders--does neither. Doesn't even come remotely close to doing either.

And this.
08-02-2012 12:46 PM
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MileHighBronco Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Palestinians outraged at reality
(08-01-2012 11:45 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I don't care much at all for Israel but they do treat their Muslim population better than some other Muslim countries. I'm just not so in love with them as others are.

I'm not in love with Israel at all but have little patience for those who throw stones at them all the time with little to no facts to back them up. Your comment about how Israel treats their Muslims is true and was about to be my next comment until I saw yours.

Exit Q. - Had Israel not turned a desert into a thriving commercial society, would Palestinians still want the land that Israel occupies?
08-02-2012 02:34 PM
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