http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/opinio...wanted=all

This is hilarious.

Now the left is overt in its desire to keep the masses ignorant. Yes, don't want people actually to be educated...they might start thinking for themselves! And then where would the tyrants be? History is replete with examples of how educated people struggled against their despots. And anyway, Mao's way is just too gauche. This is far more...enlightened.

The problem with mathematics education is we don't do algebra early enough. Push that work down three or four years, and those kids will eat it like candy.

War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength. O'Bama has improved the unemployment rate from 5.5% to 8.2%. And no one will know the difference.

(07-30-2012 04:02 PM)Claw Wrote:  The problem with mathematics education is we don't do algebra early enough.

I'll disagree. The problem is we don't spend enough time mastering arithmetic, in appropriate stages. (We also spend far too much time on New Math principles and techniques in elementary schools).

Get any kid to master addition, and he'll soon be asking questions like, "What plus seven equals ten?"

Guess what, he just did subtraction, AND algebra. (I call it arithmetic exploration).

A little kid just begins to get the whole "4+3" thing, and suddenly it's "4-3", and he's lost again. The school's response is they'll review it next year and he'll get it then...but he wont. He'll just be frustrated and embarrassed by math, and give up on it.

Spend a few more weeks on addition and you'll find that subtraction and multiplication (What is 3+3+3?) become easier...almost intuitive.

Arithmetic is fine, but it isn't the reason kids don't understand algebra. Kids today solve much more difficult problems on their video game consoles than they see in algebra class.

I don't know why we make kids study history, it's all in the past. And is geography really that important, nothing is going to move or go any place so why study it? And what about spelling? We now spell out stuff like OMG, LOL, WTF, etc. The free market has found a new way for us to spell. And talk about a waste of time, why do we need science courses when we have Asians willing to do all the hard stuff for us? And math, you say? We all have computers and calculators, we don't need no stinking math courses.

(07-30-2012 04:59 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  I don't know why we make kids study history, it's all in the past. And is geography really that important, nothing is going to move or go any place so why study it? And what about spelling? We now spell out stuff like OMG, LOL, WTF, etc. The free market has found a new way for us to spell. And talk about a waste of time, why do we need science courses when we have Asians willing to do all the hard stuff for us? And math, you say? We all have computers and calculators, we don't need no stinking math courses.

Actually, we could teach kids how to use statistics and regression and a number of more powerful techniques rather than wasting time solving for X a thousands times.

(07-30-2012 04:59 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  I don't know why we make kids study history, it's all in the past. And is geography really that important, nothing is going to move or go any place so why study it? And what about spelling? We now spell out stuff like OMG, LOL, WTF, etc. The free market has found a new way for us to spell. And talk about a waste of time, why do we need science courses when we have Asians willing to do all the hard stuff for us? And math, you say? We all have computers and calculators, we don't need no stinking math courses.

Schools are just useless. Liberals just want to fund the teachers union, teachers just want to teach bupkis.

(07-30-2012 05:21 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 04:59 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  I don't know why we make kids study history, it's all in the past. And is geography really that important, nothing is going to move or go any place so why study it? And what about spelling? We now spell out stuff like OMG, LOL, WTF, etc. The free market has found a new way for us to spell. And talk about a waste of time, why do we need science courses when we have Asians willing to do all the hard stuff for us? And math, you say? We all have computers and calculators, we don't need no stinking math courses.

Schools are just useless. Liberals just want to fund the teachers union, teachers just want to teach bupkis.

So your solution? No schools?

(07-30-2012 05:32 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 05:21 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 04:59 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  I don't know why we make kids study history, it's all in the past. And is geography really that important, nothing is going to move or go any place so why study it? And what about spelling? We now spell out stuff like OMG, LOL, WTF, etc. The free market has found a new way for us to spell. And talk about a waste of time, why do we need science courses when we have Asians willing to do all the hard stuff for us? And math, you say? We all have computers and calculators, we don't need no stinking math courses.

Schools are just useless. Liberals just want to fund the teachers union, teachers just want to teach bupkis.

So your solution? No schools?

No public schools. Worked ok for quite some time.

(07-30-2012 05:03 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 04:59 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  I don't know why we make kids study history, it's all in the past. And is geography really that important, nothing is going to move or go any place so why study it? And what about spelling? We now spell out stuff like OMG, LOL, WTF, etc. The free market has found a new way for us to spell. And talk about a waste of time, why do we need science courses when we have Asians willing to do all the hard stuff for us? And math, you say? We all have computers and calculators, we don't need no stinking math courses.

Actually, we could teach kids how to use statistics and regression and a number of more powerful techniques rather than wasting time solving for X a thousands times.

(07-30-2012 06:07 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 05:03 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 04:59 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  I don't know why we make kids study history, it's all in the past. And is geography really that important, nothing is going to move or go any place so why study it? And what about spelling? We now spell out stuff like OMG, LOL, WTF, etc. The free market has found a new way for us to spell. And talk about a waste of time, why do we need science courses when we have Asians willing to do all the hard stuff for us? And math, you say? We all have computers and calculators, we don't need no stinking math courses.

Actually, we could teach kids how to use statistics and regression and a number of more powerful techniques rather than wasting time solving for X a thousands times.

I'm not kidding. Applied mathematics is a different thing and its where we need to be going.

(07-30-2012 06:09 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 06:07 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 05:03 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 04:59 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  I don't know why we make kids study history, it's all in the past. And is geography really that important, nothing is going to move or go any place so why study it? And what about spelling? We now spell out stuff like OMG, LOL, WTF, etc. The free market has found a new way for us to spell. And talk about a waste of time, why do we need science courses when we have Asians willing to do all the hard stuff for us? And math, you say? We all have computers and calculators, we don't need no stinking math courses.

Actually, we could teach kids how to use statistics and regression and a number of more powerful techniques rather than wasting time solving for X a thousands times.

I'm not kidding. Applied mathematics is a different thing and its where we need to be going.

1. Who says?

2. Who says you can effectively teach it w/o the fundamentals?

3. Who says algebra, trig and calculus aren't applied?

(07-30-2012 06:15 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 06:09 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 06:07 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 05:03 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 04:59 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  I don't know why we make kids study history, it's all in the past. And is geography really that important, nothing is going to move or go any place so why study it? And what about spelling? We now spell out stuff like OMG, LOL, WTF, etc. The free market has found a new way for us to spell. And talk about a waste of time, why do we need science courses when we have Asians willing to do all the hard stuff for us? And math, you say? We all have computers and calculators, we don't need no stinking math courses.

Actually, we could teach kids how to use statistics and regression and a number of more powerful techniques rather than wasting time solving for X a thousands times.

I'm not kidding. Applied mathematics is a different thing and its where we need to be going.

1. Who says?

2. Who says you can effectively teach it w/o the fundamentals?

3. Who says algebra, trig and calculus aren't applied?

1. I do. Why not?

2. Of course you can. You can drive a car without being able to build one.

3. Yes, those things are applied, but teach how to use them in Excel.

We don't live in 1900. We need to teach differently.

(07-30-2012 06:07 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 05:32 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 05:21 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 04:59 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  I don't know why we make kids study history, it's all in the past. And is geography really that important, nothing is going to move or go any place so why study it? And what about spelling? We now spell out stuff like OMG, LOL, WTF, etc. The free market has found a new way for us to spell. And talk about a waste of time, why do we need science courses when we have Asians willing to do all the hard stuff for us? And math, you say? We all have computers and calculators, we don't need no stinking math courses.

Schools are just useless. Liberals just want to fund the teachers union, teachers just want to teach bupkis.

So your solution? No schools?

No public schools. Worked ok for quite some time.

That was a completely different time. It was probably around the time when you could still become a surgeon by reading up on it.

(07-30-2012 06:54 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 06:07 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 05:32 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 05:21 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 04:59 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  I don't know why we make kids study history, it's all in the past. And is geography really that important, nothing is going to move or go any place so why study it? And what about spelling? We now spell out stuff like OMG, LOL, WTF, etc. The free market has found a new way for us to spell. And talk about a waste of time, why do we need science courses when we have Asians willing to do all the hard stuff for us? And math, you say? We all have computers and calculators, we don't need no stinking math courses.

Schools are just useless. Liberals just want to fund the teachers union, teachers just want to teach bupkis.

So your solution? No schools?

No public schools. Worked ok for quite some time.

That was a completely different time.

Irrelevant. The point is that system worked better than the current one works now. Why do people defend such a staunch failure as our current public schools?

(07-30-2012 08:01 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 06:54 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 06:07 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 05:32 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 05:21 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Schools are just useless. Liberals just want to fund the teachers union, teachers just want to teach bupkis.

So your solution? No schools?

No public schools. Worked ok for quite some time.

That was a completely different time.

Irrelevant. The point is that system worked better than the current one works now. Why do people defend such a staunch failure as our current public schools?

Just because I'm disagreeing with you doesn't mean that I'm defending what you're going against. But, just because that system worked then doesn't mean that it will work now. The industries, demographics, and just about everything about America are totally different. That education system today would have a 6th grade education as a luxury.

I've been an advocate for Canadian style, strong local governance, provincially managed education with a smattering of specialty schools. Also a German/Swiss/Austrian-styled choice to opt out of traditional school at 15 or 16 in order to attend an early apprenticeship/co-op with licensed corporations/businesses. At 18 they'll have qualifications and experience.

That's better than choosing not to educate in the first place.

The biggest thing that needs to happen is to get the federal government out of the curriculum and evaluation business.

Why?

We need a diversity of approaches across the nation. In the long run, letting states and localities teach what they need to teach will produce a stronger, more diversely educated populace that is better able to meet the challenges of the future.

(07-30-2012 08:56 PM)Claw Wrote:  The biggest thing that needs to happen is to get the federal government out of the curriculum and evaluation business.

Why?

We need a diversity of approaches across the nation. In the long run, letting states and localities teach what they need to teach will produce a stronger, more diversely educated populace that is better able to meet the challenges of the future.

I agree. My mom has taught and been a principal in both Quebec and North Carolina. She said the main difference is that Canada is way more in tune with provincial rights than we are. The federal government makes sure the provinces have the money to work but they don't get involved with how it is distributed when they get there. Hell, the provinces don't do anything but give money to individual boards, which are run by administrators and parents, and provide a curriculum. The boards decide the style of education actually. The goal is that every school has the same things proportionate to their population. That relationship never gets eroded.

She says that our feds have the habit of micromanaging indirectly, by offering different grants and support. Through that they get really strong on the regulations and they have you in constant contact with federal administrators. They keep the individual systems/schools on the teat for a long time because once your grant runs out, you almost have no choice but to accept and extension.

(07-30-2012 05:21 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 04:59 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  I don't know why we make kids study history, it's all in the past. And is geography really that important, nothing is going to move or go any place so why study it? And what about spelling? We now spell out stuff like OMG, LOL, WTF, etc. The free market has found a new way for us to spell. And talk about a waste of time, why do we need science courses when we have Asians willing to do all the hard stuff for us? And math, you say? We all have computers and calculators, we don't need no stinking math courses.

Schools are just useless. Liberals just want to fund the teachers union, teachers just want to teach bupkis.

Also, with all due respect, I think that is the most overused, overly simplistic, outside looking in line of thinking that there is. The teachers union may be some large malicious organization but individual teachers at large don't involve themselves to heavily in it (maybe in states where the union man mentality is strong, but that's not most states).

Let me tell you something, teachers as a whole wanna teach. I don't think that our paradigm allows for it. We're in a system that places more emphasis on scores on a standardized test than preparing students for life outside of school because the latter can't really be measured. That's just one thing in a long list of things that need to be improved.