The problem is not teachers. The problem is administrators--and union bosses. The people who are leaching off the system.

(07-30-2012 10:02 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The problem is not teachers. The problem is administrators--and union bosses. The people who are leaching off the system.

That's true. There are so many people in a county's system that don't need to be there. Might I ask you what administrators you are talking about?

(07-30-2012 05:32 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 05:21 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 04:59 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  I don't know why we make kids study history, it's all in the past. And is geography really that important, nothing is going to move or go any place so why study it? And what about spelling? We now spell out stuff like OMG, LOL, WTF, etc. The free market has found a new way for us to spell. And talk about a waste of time, why do we need science courses when we have Asians willing to do all the hard stuff for us? And math, you say? We all have computers and calculators, we don't need no stinking math courses.

Schools are just useless. Liberals just want to fund the teachers union, teachers just want to teach bupkis.

So your solution? No schools?

No. Schools only for those that can afford it.

(07-30-2012 08:56 PM)Claw Wrote:  The biggest thing that needs to happen is to get the federal government out of the curriculum and evaluation business.

Why?

We need a diversity of approaches across the nation. In the long run, letting states and localities teach what they need to teach will produce a stronger, more diversely educated populace that is better able to meet the challenges of the future.

In other words you want the Bible and Creationism in schools.

(07-30-2012 06:07 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 05:32 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 05:21 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 04:59 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  I don't know why we make kids study history, it's all in the past. And is geography really that important, nothing is going to move or go any place so why study it? And what about spelling? We now spell out stuff like OMG, LOL, WTF, etc. The free market has found a new way for us to spell. And talk about a waste of time, why do we need science courses when we have Asians willing to do all the hard stuff for us? And math, you say? We all have computers and calculators, we don't need no stinking math courses.

Schools are just useless. Liberals just want to fund the teachers union, teachers just want to teach bupkis.

So your solution? No schools?

No public schools. Worked ok for quite some time.

Even if the elimination of public schools makes the privates schools more expensive? Many families already cannot financially afford sending their children to private school.

(07-31-2012 01:20 AM)Green Bull Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 06:07 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 05:32 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 05:21 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 04:59 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  I don't know why we make kids study history, it's all in the past. And is geography really that important, nothing is going to move or go any place so why study it? And what about spelling? We now spell out stuff like OMG, LOL, WTF, etc. The free market has found a new way for us to spell. And talk about a waste of time, why do we need science courses when we have Asians willing to do all the hard stuff for us? And math, you say? We all have computers and calculators, we don't need no stinking math courses.

Schools are just useless. Liberals just want to fund the teachers union, teachers just want to teach bupkis.

So your solution? No schools?

No public schools. Worked ok for quite some time.

Even if the elimination of public schools makes the privates schools more expensive? Many families already cannot financially afford sending their children to private school.

That is the whole point behind it. No school=cheap labor.

(07-31-2012 01:44 AM)RobertN Wrote:  

(07-31-2012 01:20 AM)Green Bull Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 06:07 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 05:32 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 05:21 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Schools are just useless. Liberals just want to fund the teachers union, teachers just want to teach bupkis.

So your solution? No schools?

No public schools. Worked ok for quite some time.

Even if the elimination of public schools makes the privates schools more expensive? Many families already cannot financially afford sending their children to private school.

That is the whole point behind it. No school=cheap labor.

And less tax revenue?

(07-30-2012 10:02 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The problem is not teachers.

Cant agree here. Plenty of bad teachers. They dont understand their suject, they dont understand their role, and they dont understand the craft of teaching.

(07-30-2012 06:19 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 06:15 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 06:09 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 06:07 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 05:03 PM)Claw Wrote:  Actually, we could teach kids how to use statistics and regression and a number of more powerful techniques rather than wasting time solving for X a thousands times.

I'm not kidding. Applied mathematics is a different thing and its where we need to be going.

1. Who says?

2. Who says you can effectively teach it w/o the fundamentals?

3. Who says algebra, trig and calculus aren't applied?

1. I do. Why not?

2. Of course you can. You can drive a car without being able to build one.

3. Yes, those things are applied, but teach how to use them in Excel.

We don't live in 1900. We need to teach differently.

We should be teaching them how to do algebra AND how to use it in Excel. We need to be smarter than we are now, not dumber.

(07-31-2012 07:03 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 10:02 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The problem is not teachers.

Cant agree here. Plenty of bad teachers. They dont understand their suject, they dont understand their role, and they dont understand the craft of teaching.

Totally agree. You taught at BUGS.

(07-31-2012 07:03 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 10:02 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The problem is not teachers.

Cant agree here. Plenty of bad teachers. They dont understand their suject, they dont understand their role, and they dont understand the craft of teaching.

That's teacher training then. Also, if there are plenty of bad teachers, there are plenty of good.

(07-31-2012 12:53 AM)RobertN Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 08:56 PM)Claw Wrote:  The biggest thing that needs to happen is to get the federal government out of the curriculum and evaluation business.

Why?

We need a diversity of approaches across the nation. In the long run, letting states and localities teach what they need to teach will produce a stronger, more diversely educated populace that is better able to meet the challenges of the future.

In other words you want the Bible and Creationism in schools.

I doubt that's what he meant, but let's be fair here, several of the countries that score better than us do teach the Bible.

(07-31-2012 12:55 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(07-31-2012 12:53 AM)RobertN Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 08:56 PM)Claw Wrote:  The biggest thing that needs to happen is to get the federal government out of the curriculum and evaluation business.

Why?

We need a diversity of approaches across the nation. In the long run, letting states and localities teach what they need to teach will produce a stronger, more diversely educated populace that is better able to meet the challenges of the future.

In other words you want the Bible and Creationism in schools.

I doubt that's what he meant, but let's be fair here, several of the countries that score better than us do teach the Bible.

Well, that is EXACTLY what will happen. THis IS a BIG reason for many-especially in the south-to go to "states rights".

(07-31-2012 01:04 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(07-31-2012 12:55 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(07-31-2012 12:53 AM)RobertN Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 08:56 PM)Claw Wrote:  The biggest thing that needs to happen is to get the federal government out of the curriculum and evaluation business.

Why?

We need a diversity of approaches across the nation. In the long run, letting states and localities teach what they need to teach will produce a stronger, more diversely educated populace that is better able to meet the challenges of the future.

In other words you want the Bible and Creationism in schools.

I doubt that's what he meant, but let's be fair here, several of the countries that score better than us do teach the Bible.

Well, that is EXACTLY what will happen. THis IS a BIG reason for many-especially in the south-to go to "states rights".

You know that every state already makes their own curriculum right? If religion isn't already there, it ain't gonna be.

(07-31-2012 01:18 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(07-31-2012 01:04 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(07-31-2012 12:55 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(07-31-2012 12:53 AM)RobertN Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 08:56 PM)Claw Wrote:  The biggest thing that needs to happen is to get the federal government out of the curriculum and evaluation business.

Why?

We need a diversity of approaches across the nation. In the long run, letting states and localities teach what they need to teach will produce a stronger, more diversely educated populace that is better able to meet the challenges of the future.

In other words you want the Bible and Creationism in schools.

I doubt that's what he meant, but let's be fair here, several of the countries that score better than us do teach the Bible.

Well, that is EXACTLY what will happen. THis IS a BIG reason for many-especially in the south-to go to "states rights".

You know that every state already makes their own curriculum right? If religion isn't already there, it ain't gonna be.

Keep on believing that.

(07-31-2012 01:04 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(07-31-2012 12:55 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(07-31-2012 12:53 AM)RobertN Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 08:56 PM)Claw Wrote:  The biggest thing that needs to happen is to get the federal government out of the curriculum and evaluation business.

Why?

We need a diversity of approaches across the nation. In the long run, letting states and localities teach what they need to teach will produce a stronger, more diversely educated populace that is better able to meet the challenges of the future.

In other words you want the Bible and Creationism in schools.

I doubt that's what he meant, but let's be fair here, several of the countries that score better than us do teach the Bible.

Well, that is EXACTLY what will happen. THis IS a BIG reason for many-especially in the south-to go to "states rights".

Continute to spout without knowledge.

(07-31-2012 07:03 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 10:02 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The problem is not teachers.

Cant agree here. Plenty of bad teachers. They dont understand their suject, they dont understand their role, and they dont understand the craft of teaching.

Sure, as in every profession, there are good ones and bad ones.

Schools aren't the problem, though. They're a symptom of the problem. When you have parents who don't value education, you get children who don't value education.

Teachers spend more time dealing with disruptive children that don't give a damn, because their parents don't give a damn, than anything else they do.

(07-31-2012 03:52 PM)Smaug Wrote:  

(07-31-2012 07:03 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 10:02 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The problem is not teachers.

Cant agree here. Plenty of bad teachers. They dont understand their suject, they dont understand their role, and they dont understand the craft of teaching.

Sure, as in every profession, there are good ones and bad ones.

Schools aren't the problem, though. They're a symptom of the problem. When you have parents who don't value education, you get children who don't value education.

Teachers spend more time dealing with disruptive children that don't give a damn, because their parents don't give a damn, than anything else they do.

And "educators" contributed greatly toward that apathy.

You really think the average person in 1870 was more educated about canonical material than one today?

(07-31-2012 12:53 AM)RobertN Wrote:  

(07-30-2012 08:56 PM)Claw Wrote:  The biggest thing that needs to happen is to get the federal government out of the curriculum and evaluation business.

Why?

We need a diversity of approaches across the nation. In the long run, letting states and localities teach what they need to teach will produce a stronger, more diversely educated populace that is better able to meet the challenges of the future.

In other words you want the Bible and Creationism in schools.

No, not at all.

I simply mean that different systems teaching different things across the country will produce an intellectual diversity that national standards does not produce. Just like we don't raise the same crops across the country, our schools shouldn't be producing the same things. We need diversity of thought and knowledge. That is a much more valuable asset than good standardized test scores.