It's correct what the president said. Everyone should understand. At least everyone with an ounce of sense. When Obama said, you did not do that all alone, you had help with your business. That is very true for many of the established businesses and many new companies. For those who disagree, I would say this:

1) Who built the roads your goods are traveling to market on? That's right, the American public.

2) Who established the internet, electrical lines, sewers and other public works such as lighting and crime fighting to protect and run your business that make and assist your business every single day? That's right the American public.

3) Who comes to the rescue when your business is disrupted by fire, wind, natural disaster? That's right the American public in the form of the fire department.

So what is Mitt Romney zealot Ken Seilkop doing in Ohio? You guessed it, taking tax abatements to assist his established business to expand. His tax abatements made possible, by you said it , you and I the American public. My question is if this guy has such as great business, why am I paying for his improvements and promise to hire more workers/gov't haters? As I see it, this hairless clown should be grateful for what he is getting from the gov't rather than be critical of the gov't. Here's the true story. As you can see, many of the documents are available for review under the open records laws. Check them out for yourself if you don't like it or believe. That's right, your request for documents in writing will also be paid for by the gov't. Also, take note of the italized section in the middle of the document outlining exactly what the president said during his speech and how the Romney camp has grossly distorted his comments.


http://www.plunderbund.com/2012/07/26/st...ssistance/

(07-29-2012 05:22 AM)Vewb1 Wrote:  1) Who built the roads your goods are traveling to market on? That's right, the American public.

The taxes I pay paid for the roads my goods travel on. You and Obama saying the government deserves credit for my business is as stupid someone saying the a paper company deserves credit for my book being a success because it's printed on paper. I bought that paper with my money. I pay for those roads via my taxes.

Quote:2) Who established the internet,

This is one of the more stupid arguments you idiot libs come up with. The internet wasn't invented because the DoD had some grand vision of economic use for it. It was invented so government scientists could share information more easily. Tim Berners-Lee and Robert Cailliau created the World Wide Web. Then visionaries and entrepreneurs created the prosperity that we now find on it. Oh, and the original internet the DoD created was paid for with tax dollars.

Quote:electrical lines, sewers and other public works such as lighting and crime fighting to protect and run your business that make and assist your business every single day? That's right the American public.

Again you miss the entire point. Everyone benefits from those and those are paid for by taxes. I gain no unique advantage over anyone else by the existence of those. They aren't why my business succeeds. My business succeeds because I took the risk. I worked my a$$ off and I made it happen. The government doesn't get credit for my business because it built something that is there for EVERYONE because EVERYONE hasn't made the success I have. You and Obama would have us believe small business owners are nothing special. They didn't do anything special. They got where they were because of government, not because they worked hard and took the risk. It shows your contempt for free markets and fervent belief in the greatness of government, not of the individual.

Quote:3) Who comes to the rescue when your business is disrupted by fire, wind, natural disaster? That's right the American public in the form of the fire department.

Once again, EVERYONE gets that benefit. But not everyone makes a success of themselves. A road doesn't give me the vision for my business.

Infrastructure is what the government is supposed to provide. But they don't provide it alone because without my tax dollars they couldn't do jack sh!t. This is all rooted in the stupidity all you liberals have in that you believe if government didn't do it it wouldn't get done. You believe that it's government that inspires entrepreneurship and innovation by virtue of the fact it exists and does what it's supposed to.

Government gets no more credit for me building my business because it built a road than mother earth does because I breathed oxygen while I did it. Roads are there for everyone, but not everyone is successful. That should tell you it takes more, a hell of a lot more, than the simple fact that it's there.

1) The government pays businesses to build those roads.
2) Are you using a government Internet connection? I pay the cable company - a business. My browser comes from a business. My computer, a business. This board is a business. All of those businesses pay the government taxes in order to operate. Without those taxes, the government couldn't operate.
3) Yep. The government provides fire protection and help with natural disasters. That's great and what it should do. It doesn't, however, have anything at all to do with businesses.

Government has certain basic functions to perform--roads, streets, bridges, police, fire protection. These services are not provided free. They are paid for with taxes. Businesses already pay their fair share of these costs, probably more than their fair share, through taxes--and the more successful the business, the more taxes it pays. To insist that government somehow deserves credit for entrepreneurial success because government simply did its job is like congratulating your neighbor for not robbing a bank yesterday.

And these services simply set in place a structure in which society as a whole benefits. Everybody benefits, everybody pays--or at least that's the way it should work. But those things aren't the reason for success. If the road were the reason for success, then everyone on the road would be successful.

49er:

you make it sound like your some kind of hero for takin da chance and makin your business work. Maybe I should take a d - - - knee and thank ya for it. Thanks man for makin those picnic basket handles for my picnic basket. You make my picnic so nice. Come on !! Ok, transport your goods with no roads. Go for it. You simply cannot equate roads/bridges and other gov't services with the oxygen you breathe. That's plain ignorance beyond anyone on this message board. Personnally, I don't care about your stupid business or how you're effected. If you can't sell your products or need tax abatements, then maybe you need a new business philosphy cause that one aint a workin. I'm tired of propping up these business that don't work and are not necessary. If your business fails, why should the gov't support it? Only in the case of national security would I agree with that such as effects on the national economy, effects on the defense or effects on the banking industry.

(07-29-2012 09:48 AM)Vewb1 Wrote:  I'm tired of propping up these business that don't work and are not necessary. If your business fails, why should the gov't support it?

You mean like Solyndra?

(07-29-2012 09:48 AM)Vewb1 Wrote:  49er:

you make it sound like your some kind of hero for takin da chance and makin your business work. Maybe I should take a d - - - knee and thank ya for it. Thanks man for makin those picnic basket handles for my picnic basket. You make my picnic so nice. Come on !! Ok, transport your goods with no roads. Go for it. You simply cannot equate roads/bridges and other gov't services with the oxygen you breathe. That's plain ignorance beyond anyone on this message board. Personnally, I don't care about your stupid business or how you're effected. If you can't sell your products or need tax abatements, then maybe you need a new business philosphy cause that one aint a workin. I'm tired of propping up these business that don't work and are not necessary. If your business fails, why should the gov't support it? Only in the case of national security would I agree with that such as effects on the national economy, effects on the defense or effects on the banking industry.

It shouldn't!!!!! That's how capitalism works! If you're business fails, it goes bankrupt! We've got the corrupt government to thank for using our tax dollars on stupid bailouts.

And to this "you didn't build it" argument, that's total B.S. My utility company built the power poles and established the transmission lines, not the government. Pretty much everything on your list of items, would've or was built by private groups. You think businesses wouldn't build roads if roads would help their business? Have you ever heard of private roads before? Or railroad lines lol? I guess CSX and every railroad wouldn't have built lines if it wasn't for the government. What about shipping companies? If there is an economic incentive to build something, i.e. profit to be made, the private sector will build it.

Government just ma-linvests and mis-allocates resources, and you act like we should be grateful for the government millstone around our necks. Unbelievable.

Vewb1, what do you not understand? He PAYS for the roads to transport his picnic basket handles that make your picnic so nice with money from his successful business.

(07-29-2012 10:20 AM)Smaug Wrote:  

(07-29-2012 09:48 AM)Vewb1 Wrote:  I'm tired of propping up these business that don't work and are not necessary. If your business fails, why should the gov't support it?

You mean like Solyndra?

No. Like Ninerfan1's business.

(07-29-2012 10:31 AM)Paul M Wrote:  Vewb1, what do you not understand? He PAYS for the roads to transport his picnic basket handles that make your picnic so nice with money from his successful business.

Something tells me the road in most cases was built BEFORE the business moved in.

(07-29-2012 09:48 AM)Vewb1 Wrote:  I'm tired of propping up these business that don't work and are not necessary. If your business fails, why should the gov't support it?

So you were against the GM bailout?

(07-29-2012 10:52 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(07-29-2012 09:48 AM)Vewb1 Wrote:  I'm tired of propping up these business that don't work and are not necessary. If your business fails, why should the gov't support it?

So you were against the GM bailout?

"Only in the case of national security would I agree with that such as effects on the national economy, effects on the defense or effects on the banking industry."

(07-29-2012 09:48 AM)Vewb1 Wrote:  you make it sound like your some kind of hero for takin da chance and makin your business work. Maybe I should take a d - - - knee and thank ya for it.

First, I was using "my" in the abstract. I don't own my own business.

Your ridiculing of the hard work and sacrifice business owners is nice proof of how you liberals view success. It's also right in line with, what I believe, to be Obama's most damning comment in that tirade he went on.

Quote: OBAMA: Look, i-i-if you've been successful, you didn't get there on your own. You didn't get there on your own. I'm always struck by people who think, "Well, it must be because I was just so smart!"
There are a lot of smart people out there. "It must be because I worked harder than everybody else." Let me tell you something. There are a whole bunch of hardworkin' people out there!

Translation - there's nothing unique about you. You didn't do anything hard. You didn't take any special risks. The success you've had, you don't deserve it.

Quote:Personnally, I don't care about your stupid business or how you're effected. If you can't sell your products or need tax abatements, then maybe you need a new business philosphy cause that one aint a workin.

EXACTLY!!! As others have said that's what the free market is all about.
Obama is the one who wants to prop up failing businesses boo boo, not republicans.

You and Obama have contempt for success because you believe it's all gotten through unfairness or luck. It's because your life hasn't seen that kind of success, so rather that look at yourself as the issue you blame those that have achieved. It's how you justify your mediocrity. And the mediocre love the idea of more government because it means you don't have to work as hard. And Obama and the dems love the idea of more government cause that means more power for them.

(07-29-2012 11:48 AM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  

(07-29-2012 09:48 AM)Vewb1 Wrote:  you make it sound like your some kind of hero for takin da chance and makin your business work. Maybe I should take a d - - - knee and thank ya for it.

First, I was using "my" in the abstract. I don't own my own business.

Your ridiculing of the hard work and sacrifice business owners is nice proof of how you liberals view success. It's also right in line with, what I believe, to be Obama's most damning comment in that tirade he went on.

Quote: OBAMA: Look, i-i-if you've been successful, you didn't get there on your own. You didn't get there on your own. I'm always struck by people who think, "Well, it must be because I was just so smart!"
There are a lot of smart people out there. "It must be because I worked harder than everybody else." Let me tell you something. There are a whole bunch of hardworkin' people out there!

Translation - there's nothing unique about you. You didn't do anything hard. You didn't take any special risks. The success you've had, you don't deserve it.

Quote:Personnally, I don't care about your stupid business or how you're effected. If you can't sell your products or need tax abatements, then maybe you need a new business philosphy cause that one aint a workin.

EXACTLY!!! As others have said that's what the free market is all about.
Obama is the one who wants to prop up failing businesses boo boo, not republicans.

You and Obama have contempt for success because you believe it's all gotten through unfairness or luck. It's because your life hasn't seen that kind of success, so rather that look at yourself as the issue you blame those that have achieved. It's how you justify your mediocrity. And the mediocre love the idea of more government because it means you don't have to work as hard. And Obama and the dems love the idea of more government cause that means more power for them.

No one is ridiculing business owners. The only people being ridiculed are you rightwing morons for not being smart enough to understand.

(07-29-2012 11:53 AM)RobertN Wrote:  No one is ridiculing business owners. The only people being ridiculed are you rightwing morons for not being smart enough to understand.

Robert we've long established that you of all people on here have no business trying to say others aren't smart. You're a failure in life, you're stupid as the day is long and you have literally no understanding of any subject we discuss here. A good day for you is getting through a post without slobbering on your keyboard.

So quit trying to pretend you have even a shred of intellectual capacity to engage in substantive debate or discussion. You're a troll, good for a laugh and feel good moment for others that they aren't you. Outside of that you serve no useful purpose at all.

(07-29-2012 10:29 AM)Jugnaut Wrote:  

(07-29-2012 09:48 AM)Vewb1 Wrote:  49er:

you make it sound like your some kind of hero for takin da chance and makin your business work. Maybe I should take a d - - - knee and thank ya for it. Thanks man for makin those picnic basket handles for my picnic basket. You make my picnic so nice. Come on !! Ok, transport your goods with no roads. Go for it. You simply cannot equate roads/bridges and other gov't services with the oxygen you breathe. That's plain ignorance beyond anyone on this message board. Personnally, I don't care about your stupid business or how you're effected. If you can't sell your products or need tax abatements, then maybe you need a new business philosphy cause that one aint a workin. I'm tired of propping up these business that don't work and are not necessary. If your business fails, why should the gov't support it? Only in the case of national security would I agree with that such as effects on the national economy, effects on the defense or effects on the banking industry.

It shouldn't!!!!! That's how capitalism works! If you're business fails, it goes bankrupt! We've got the corrupt government to thank for using our tax dollars on stupid bailouts.

And to this "you didn't build it" argument, that's total B.S. My utility company built the power poles and established the transmission lines, not the government. Pretty much everything on your list of items, would've or was built by private groups. You think businesses wouldn't build roads if roads would help their business? Have you ever heard of private roads before? Or railroad lines lol? I guess CSX and every railroad wouldn't have built lines if it wasn't for the government. What about shipping companies? If there is an economic incentive to build something, i.e. profit to be made, the private sector will build it.

Government just ma-linvests and mis-allocates resources, and you act like we should be grateful for the government millstone around our necks. Unbelievable.

+1

In Chile, a lot of the roads are privately owned and operated. After the last major earthquake there, those private companies had the roads repaired within a matter of days, because the more time the roads spend in disrepair, the more revenue they lost. Compare that to road repairs here, where they drags on for months (or years), and you routinely see 1 or 2 people working and a few dozen standing there with their thumbs up their asses.

(07-29-2012 05:22 AM)Vewb1 Wrote:  It's correct what the president said. Everyone should understand. At least everyone with an ounce of sense.

No, and I grow tired of the ignorant and lazy who demand that others keep supporting them. Simple semantics doesn't make your point more credible, in fact it just proves you aren't able to think rationally. Oh, and repeating it doesn't make it true.