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I hope no one thinks me insensitive, but rumors are PSU is going to lose a large number of scholarships over the next few seasons. This will likely lead to players leaving their program.

Much like with the former CAA schools that shuttered their programs, I hope ODU is involved with any athletes that are looking for a new home.

When SMU was shut down: As a result of the "death penalty," a full release was granted to every player on the team, allowing them to transfer to another school without losing any eligibility; most immediately announced they were considering going elsewhere. As soon as the NCAA announced its decision, hundreds of recruiters from 80 universities--including such powerhouses as Penn State, Oklahoma, and Alabama--traveled to SMU in hopes of persuading players to transfer to their schools.[20][21]

You're not insensitive, just putting the cart before the horse. Of course Coaches like B. Wilder are waiting to see what happens to Happy Valley.

(07-22-2012 03:27 PM)djnva Wrote:  I hope no one thinks me insensitive, but rumors are PSU is going to lose a large number of scholarships over the next few seasons. This will likely lead to players leaving their program.

Much like with the former CAA schools that shuttered their programs, I hope ODU is involved with any athletes that are looking for a new home.

When SMU was shut down: As a result of the "death penalty," a full release was granted to every player on the team, allowing them to transfer to another school without losing any eligibility; most immediately announced they were considering going elsewhere. As soon as the NCAA announced its decision, hundreds of recruiters from 80 universities--including such powerhouses as Penn State, Oklahoma, and Alabama--traveled to SMU in hopes of persuading players to transfer to their schools.[20][21]

I hope we see the elimination of Penn State football for some period of time.
I believe that the NCAA's lack of institutional control clause is more than enough to impose the death penalty.

Someone else said that SMU should sue the NCAA for lost revenue if this doesn't happen. I agree.

Having said all that, I am sure Coach Wilder will be watching closely.

(07-22-2012 04:16 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  

(07-22-2012 03:27 PM)djnva Wrote:  I hope no one thinks me insensitive, but rumors are PSU is going to lose a large number of scholarships over the next few seasons. This will likely lead to players leaving their program.

Much like with the former CAA schools that shuttered their programs, I hope ODU is involved with any athletes that are looking for a new home.

When SMU was shut down: As a result of the "death penalty," a full release was granted to every player on the team, allowing them to transfer to another school without losing any eligibility; most immediately announced they were considering going elsewhere. As soon as the NCAA announced its decision, hundreds of recruiters from 80 universities--including such powerhouses as Penn State, Oklahoma, and Alabama--traveled to SMU in hopes of persuading players to transfer to their schools.[20][21]

I hope we see the elimination of Penn State football for some period of time.
I believe that the NCAA's lack of institutional control clause is more than enough to impose the death penalty.

Someone else said that SMU should sue the NCAA for lost revenue if this doesn't happen. I agree.

Having said all that, I am sure Coach Wilder will be watching closely.

To compare the smu situation and the psu situation would be dangerous. Smu committed major violations and received the death penalty because they were already on probation. While psu hasn't committed a violation. Psu is being charged with immoral behavior which is not covered in the NCAA manual.

I expect that they will lose a ton of scholarships over the next 3 years. Plus bowl bans and tv ban. They wont face the death penalty.

Keep in mind smu football could have survived the death penalty if it was just about not playing a year smu football would have been able to play in 1988. however the inability to recruit and the free for all with transfers is what killed them. If not for those to things they would have made it.

Smu doesn't have a leg to stand on. They violated a rule. Hence the reason why they voted against the repeated violator rule back in 1985

(07-22-2012 05:57 PM)Justanodufan Wrote:  To compare the smu situation and the psu situation would be dangerous. Smu committed major violations and received the death penalty because they were already on probation. While psu hasn't committed a violation. Psu is being charged with immoral behavior which is not covered in the NCAA manual.

I expect that they will lose a ton of scholarships over the next 3 years. Plus bowl bans and tv ban. They wont face the death penalty.

Keep in mind smu football could have survived the death penalty if it was just about not playing a year smu football would have been able to play in 1988. however the inability to recruit and the free for all with transfers is what killed them. If not for those to things they would have made it.

Smu doesn't have a leg to stand on. They violated a rule. Hence the reason why they voted against the repeated violator rule back in 1985

The part about SMU suing was not meant to be literal.....although who knows.

However there is precedent to support single instance death penalty impositon using Article 6.1 of the NCAA Constitution (institutional control).
Morehouse College soccer is but one example

Further, he NCAA’s authority to penalize Penn State based on NCAA rules is as follows: (emphasis added]
Article 10 of NCAA Division 1 manual states that “individuals employed by a member institution to administer, conduct or coach intercollegiate athletics shall act with honesty and sportsmanship at all times.”

Additionally Rule 10.1(d) (NCAA Handbook) indicates that the cover-up would violate the NCAA code of ethical conduct if any statements were made to the NCAA in regard to this matter:
“Unethical conduct may include, but is not limited to
(d) knowingly furnishing or knowingly influencing others to furnish the NCAA or the individual’s institution false or misleading information concerning an individual’s involvement in or knowledge of matters relevant to a possible violation of an NCAA regulation.”

I think the NCAA has both the legal authority and the moral obligation to suspend Penn State football.

I read on ESPN that while the death penalty isn't expected, the death penalty might have been preferable to what their punishment will be.. We'll see tomorrow.

(07-22-2012 09:46 PM)Monarchs Wrote:  I read on ESPN that while the death penalty isn't expected, the death penalty might have been preferable to what their punishment will be.. We'll see tomorrow.

I think people say that to sound smart.

How would losing all scholarships, infrastructure, bowl dollars, etc. with a death penalty to another penalty which doesn't 100% kill the program?

The part about SMU suing was not meant to be literal.....although who knows.

However there is precedent to support single instance death penalty impositon using Article 6.1 of the NCAA Constitution (institutional control).
Morehouse College soccer is but one example

Further, he NCAA’s authority to penalize Penn State based on NCAA rules is as follows: (emphasis added]
Article 10 of NCAA Division 1 manual states that “individuals employed by a member institution to administer, conduct or coach intercollegiate athletics shall act with honesty and sportsmanship at all times.”

Additionally Rule 10.1(d) (NCAA Handbook) indicates that the cover-up would violate the NCAA code of ethical conduct if any statements were made to the NCAA in regard to this matter:
“Unethical conduct may include, but is not limited to
(d) knowingly furnishing or knowingly influencing others to furnish the NCAA or the individual’s institution false or misleading information concerning an individual’s involvement in or knowledge of matters relevant to a possible violation of an NCAA regulation.”

I think the NCAA has both the legal authority and the moral obligation to suspend Penn State football.
[/quote]

True Morehouse wasn't on probation however morehouse was issued lack of institutional control because it expanded over a couple years and involved financial aid (not allowed), playing ineligible players, playing people who weren't even admitted into the university, etc. also it didn't help morehouse that they didn't even know that soccer was a varsity sport there and not club.

You are talking about institutional control penn state hasn't been charged with those allegations. Had the NCAA decided to charge them with IC, there would not be a press conference tomorrow because penn state would be allowed to go in front of the COI.

They aren't being charged with it do there the death penalty can't be issued. There are no allegations of any violation of the NCAA rules which is why the NCAA is going to set a precedent tomorrow by issuing penalties for immoral behavior

The problem was Joe Pa and the administration covered up and didn't act on information back in the 90s, because they feared if it got out it would reflect badly on the institution. Well ultimately, this kind of thing always gets out and it is always worse when it comes out later rather than sooner. Had they gone public back then they would be hailed as heroes today. But they were shortsighted in their pursuit of football winning. The long term effects, i.e., the civil lawsuits they'll face, will be much more damaging than anything the NCAA meets out.

I've always respected Penn State more than any of the other football "factories" and now that trust is lost. There was always the sense that they did it the right way. And from a football perspective I don't think that view has really changed. But from a human point of view, their actions have destroyed many young men's lives. And I hope they pay a huge price from a civil standpoint. I am on the fence as far as "death penalty" goes. From a football persepective they did not commit viloations. They didn't acquire an unfair advantage in the pursuit of recruits. They just turned a blind eye to the most important aspect of our society - they let down our children! They were the ones who should have stood up and protected and fought for our children. What penalty can ever correct that?




On the other side. I think Sandusky should be hung upside down by his balls. I think they should insert a glass rod up his shank and shatter it. The man should be fed human excrement for the rest of his life. And he should be set out into the general prison population so he gets to experience first hand what he did to so many young boys.

(07-23-2012 07:56 AM)ODU True Blue Wrote:  The problem was Joe Pa and the administration covered up and didn't act on information back in the 90s, because they feared if it got out it would reflect badly on the institution. Well ultimately, this kind of thing always gets out and it is always worse when it comes out later rather than sooner. Had they gone public back then they would be hailed as heroes today. But they were shortsighted in their pursuit of football winning. The long term effects, i.e., the civil lawsuits they'll face, will be much more damaging than anything the NCAA meets out.

I've always respected Penn State more than any of the other football "factories" and now that trust is lost. There was always the sense that they did it the right way. And from a football perspective I don't think that view has really changed. But from a human point of view, their actions have destroyed many young men's lives. And I hope they pay a huge price from a civil standpoint. I am on the fence as far as "death penalty" goes. From a football persepective they did not commit viloations. They didn't acquire an unfair advantage in the pursuit of recruits. They just turned a blind eye to the most important aspect of our society - they let down our children! They were the ones who should have stood up and protected and fought for our children. What penalty can ever correct that?




On the other side. I think Sandusky should be hung upside down by his balls. I think they should insert a glass rod up his shank and shatter it. The man should be fed human excrement for the rest of his life. And he should be set out into the general prison population so he gets to experience first hand what he did to so many young boys.

I agree with everything in the first and final paragraph. As for the bolded portion, I continue seeing this argument and I scratch my head. Sandusky was the DC and LB coach until 1999 (at a school known as LB U). The advantage for PSU is clearly not being affiliated with a pederast, even though they were. For every year they helped cover this up, it delayed recruits and their parents seeing PSU differently (as you pointed out, they were a football factory that appeared to do things the right way). Once that news was unveiled, it changed the perception of the entire program. And while the news and backlash would have been different in the 90s/early 00s, it still would have negatively affected how everyone saw Happy Valley.

(07-23-2012 08:35 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  

(07-23-2012 07:56 AM)ODU True Blue Wrote:  The problem was Joe Pa and the administration covered up and didn't act on information back in the 90s, because they feared if it got out it would reflect badly on the institution. Well ultimately, this kind of thing always gets out and it is always worse when it comes out later rather than sooner. Had they gone public back then they would be hailed as heroes today. But they were shortsighted in their pursuit of football winning. The long term effects, i.e., the civil lawsuits they'll face, will be much more damaging than anything the NCAA meets out.

I've always respected Penn State more than any of the other football "factories" and now that trust is lost. There was always the sense that they did it the right way. And from a football perspective I don't think that view has really changed. But from a human point of view, their actions have destroyed many young men's lives. And I hope they pay a huge price from a civil standpoint. I am on the fence as far as "death penalty" goes. From a football persepective they did not commit viloations. They didn't acquire an unfair advantage in the pursuit of recruits. They just turned a blind eye to the most important aspect of our society - they let down our children! They were the ones who should have stood up and protected and fought for our children. What penalty can ever correct that?




On the other side. I think Sandusky should be hung upside down by his balls. I think they should insert a glass rod up his shank and shatter it. The man should be fed human excrement for the rest of his life. And he should be set out into the general prison population so he gets to experience first hand what he did to so many young boys.

I agree with everything in the first and final paragraph. As for the bolded portion, I continue seeing this argument and I scratch my head. Sandusky was the DC and LB coach until 1999 (at a school known as LB U). The advantage for PSU is clearly not being affiliated with a pederast, even though they were. For every year they helped cover this up, it delayed recruits and their parents seeing PSU differently (as you pointed out, they were a football factory that appeared to do things the right way). Once that news was unveiled, it changed the perception of the entire program. And while the news and backlash would have been different in the 90s/early 00s, it still would have negatively affected how everyone saw Happy Valley.

You should scratch your head. That "bolded" statement is, at least partially, incorrect with respect to fact. There were violations committed, as specified below.

Mark Emmert (NCAA President) clearly stated that the NCAA had the authority to levy sanctions, based on codified NCAA bylaws and it's Constitution. He clearly stated that Penn State violations fell under various bylaws.
In fact, Emmert was clear as to why they did NOT impose the Death Penality and it was NOT statutory. It was about other programs like the band, and already scheduled opoponents.
Again I point to the NCAA constitution:
Article 6.1 of the NCAA Constitution (institutional control).

and the bylaws

Article 10 of NCAA Division 1 manual: “individuals employed by a member institution to administer, conduct or coach intercollegiate athletics shall act with honesty and sportsmanship at all times.”
Additionally Rule 10.1(d):

“Unethical conduct may include, but is not limited to
(d) knowingly furnishing or knowingly influencing others to furnish the NCAA or the individual’s institution false or misleading information concerning an individual’s involvement in or knowledge of matters relevant to a possible violation of an NCAA regulation.”

There are at least two stautory elements that allow the NCAA to impose whatever they feel necessary and appropriate, based on the specific Penn State situation.

Having said all of this, I am concerned about the precedent set in using the Freeh report in lieu of their own investigative and reporting process.
I think this is potentially very dangerous.

Ouch: http://espn.go.com/college-football/stor...ating-1998

60 million dollars? Really? It's the US Department of Justice's job to punish criminals and wrongdoers, not the greedy NCAA who just wants an excuse for money. I'm no Penn State fan, but this is bogus.

They are making them give the money to funds for children.

(07-23-2012 11:20 AM)Monarch_Pride Wrote:  60 million dollars? Really? It's the US Department of Justice's job to punish criminals and wrongdoers, not the greedy NCAA who just wants an excuse for money. I'm no Penn State fan, but this is bogus.

Actually, the NCAA has what are, in effect, morals clauses, for member institutions. With those in place it's well within their purview to punish Penn State.

And yeah, the money is going to charities that deal with child abuse, not the NCAA.

Oh, well that's good I suppose. Clearly missed that.

Penn St just raised $210 mil, I think it's a good thing the NCAA takes some of off of that and put it towards kids.

PSU got what they deserved. They will not miss the 60 M and they have enough alumni and fan base that will bring them back. It may be 6-10 years but they will come back.