(07-13-2012 10:54 AM)Road Apple Wrote:  

(07-13-2012 10:32 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(07-13-2012 10:10 AM)Road Apple Wrote:  

(07-13-2012 10:02 AM)attackfrog Wrote:  

(07-13-2012 08:15 AM)IceJus10 Wrote:  Air Force didn't actually tell the Big East no... it just said they couldn't commit to the conference at that time, but left the door open for the future.

The BYU and Air Force answers were very similar. The door is still open to both.

Might be open, but now that AQ is gone and BE commish Joe Bailey and company has meekly allowed the "Power 5" and their ESPN parrots to trash-talk the Big East down into lower tier status, neither one will up on joining anytime soon.

That was going to happen no matter what we did or said.

Maybe. But to surrender without a fight? Letting ESPN trash-talk the conference and not having a commish in place who will stand up like he has a pair and fight for us? The ACC managed to save a place for itself at the table because they have a commissioner who knows how to think on his feet and come up with a last minute plan to get the job done. Our commish hasn't even figured out how many BCS BOWLS there are and how many will be added to the playoff or if we will "be allowed" to sign with any.

But that belongs in another thread. AF and BYU will not be coming because the Big East is now perceived to be the equal of the Mountain West and far below the ACC.

But in reality--the Mountain West is nowhere close to the Big East and the Big East is really quite close to the ACC. Perception is subject to misinformation over the short term. Over the long term, perception eventually matches reality---its just takes a little time to get to the right place.

The funny thing is, weekly afternoon games on the NBC over the air broadcast network will quickly change that perception. For the casual football fan, if its on a major network, it must be major. To some extent, even the more rabid fans believe this subconciously.

Frankly, nothing matters up to now. This fall the Big East fate will be decided. If they get a good NBC TV contract, they will grab BYU and a couple of bowls that are just below the BCS in stature for thier eastern and western champions to play in. With those planned 14 teams and that bowl line-up, the Big East will be a very solid player on the college football landscape.

If the tv contract is weak and offers little increased visablility---the current nationwide Big East experiment is done for.

(07-13-2012 11:16 AM)attackfrog Wrote:  

(07-13-2012 10:54 AM)Road Apple Wrote:  

(07-13-2012 10:32 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(07-13-2012 10:10 AM)Road Apple Wrote:  

(07-13-2012 10:02 AM)attackfrog Wrote:  The BYU and Air Force answers were very similar. The door is still open to both.

Might be open, but now that AQ is gone and BE commish Joe Bailey and company has meekly allowed the "Power 5" and their ESPN parrots to trash-talk the Big East down into lower tier status, neither one will up on joining anytime soon.

That was going to happen no matter what we did or said.

Maybe. But to surrender without a fight? Letting ESPN trash-talk the conference and not having a commish in place who will stand up like he has a pair and fight for us? The ACC managed to save a place for itself at the table because they have a commissioner who knows how to think on his feet and come up with a last minute plan to get the job done. Our commish hasn't even figured out how many BCS BOWLS there are and how many will be added to the playoff or if we will "be allowed" to sign with any.

But that belongs in another thread. AF and BYU will not be coming because the Big East is now perceived to be the equal of the Mountain West and far below the ACC.

But in reality--the Mountain West is nowhere close to the Big East and the Big East is really quite close to the ACC. Perception is subject to misinformation over the short term. Over the long term, perception eventually matches reality---its just takes a little time to get to the right place.

The funny thing is, weekly afternoon games on the NBC over the air broadcast network will quickly change that perception. For the casual football fan, if its on a major network, it must be major. To some extent, even the more rabid fans believe this subconciously.

Frankly, nothing matters up to now. This fall the Big East fate will be decided. If they get a good NBC TV contract, they will grab BYU and a couple of bowls that are just below the BCS in stature for thier eastern and western champions to play in. With those planned 14 teams and that bowl line-up, the Big East will be a very solid player on the college football landscape.

If the tv contract is weak and offers little increased visablility---the current nationwide Big East experiment is done for.

Good summary. Like I said a zillion times, a lot will be riding on this new TV deal. It will make or break the conference. If BE is able to get huge money, then commit for long term. If it is less money, then BE needs to commit to short term and renegotiate in a few years after chance to prove itself. Tier-3 rights would be important too in order to keep teams like ND around since they want to do their own network. Bowl negotiations should only involve ND if it benefits the BE. A place to park our champs when they are not in the playoff is an important piece that needs to be resolved as well. I hope NBC/FEDEX will be able to help with the bowl situation.

Also, it would be absolutely stupid for BYU and AF to close the door on any BE discussion. In this day and age, no one would be stupid enough to shut off any kind of exit for his/her program.

I still want a full sports Western Division in the Big East:

AF
Fresno
SMU
UH
Boise
Navy
BYU
UNLV

(07-13-2012 11:46 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  I still want a full sports Western Division in the Big East:

AF
Fresno
SMU
UH
Boise
Navy
BYU
UNLV

For football I like it. But how about this full sports division?

AF
SMU
Boise
Navy
BYU
UNLV
Cinci
Fresno

I suspect you might be a little less enthisiastic once football season was over.

(07-13-2012 11:50 AM)attackfrog Wrote:  

(07-13-2012 11:46 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  I still want a full sports Western Division in the Big East:

AF
Fresno
SMU
UH
Boise
Navy
BYU
UNLV

How about this full sports division?

AF
SMU
Boise
Navy
BYU
UNLV
Cinci
Fresno

minus Cincy...we would be in the east

(07-13-2012 11:51 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(07-13-2012 11:50 AM)attackfrog Wrote:  

(07-13-2012 11:46 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  I still want a full sports Western Division in the Big East:

AF
Fresno
SMU
UH
Boise
Navy
BYU
UNLV

How about this full sports division?

AF
SMU
Boise
Navy
BYU
UNLV
Cinci
Fresno

minus Cincy...we would be in the east

The point I was trying to make is nobody with a Big East all-sports invite would want to leave that to play in the all-sports division you are describing. Its not that it is horrible, but why would anyone willing give up playing Cinci, Louisville, Georgetown, Memphis, UConn (etc) to play in the division you have proposed? I dont think they would (or should).

(07-13-2012 11:55 AM)attackfrog Wrote:  

(07-13-2012 11:51 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(07-13-2012 11:50 AM)attackfrog Wrote:  

(07-13-2012 11:46 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  I still want a full sports Western Division in the Big East:

AF
Fresno
SMU
UH
Boise
Navy
BYU
UNLV

How about this full sports division?

AF
SMU
Boise
Navy
BYU
UNLV
Cinci
Fresno

minus Cincy...we would be in the east

The point I was trying to make is nobody with a Big East all-sports invite would want to leave that to play in the all-sports division you are describing. Its not that it is horrible, but why would anyone willing give up playing Cinci, Louisville, Georgetown, Memphis, UConn (etc) to play in the division you have proposed? I dont think they would (or should).

I'm a little slow...I'm not understanding what you are saying

It may be me thats a little slow. How would you propose that western all-sports division would would work? Would it actually be part of the Big East in all-sports, or would they just be Big-East football only members with thier own freestanding western division for all-sports? Whta Im saying is that if its the latter, Houston and SMU would have no desire to give up a full Big East all-sports membership to play in a freestanding western division for all sports. They would earn far less money and play a far less attractive all-sports schedule.

(07-13-2012 11:30 AM)SF Husky Wrote:  

(07-13-2012 11:16 AM)attackfrog Wrote:  

(07-13-2012 10:54 AM)Road Apple Wrote:  

(07-13-2012 10:32 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(07-13-2012 10:10 AM)Road Apple Wrote:  Might be open, but now that AQ is gone and BE commish Joe Bailey and company has meekly allowed the "Power 5" and their ESPN parrots to trash-talk the Big East down into lower tier status, neither one will up on joining anytime soon.

That was going to happen no matter what we did or said.

Maybe. But to surrender without a fight? Letting ESPN trash-talk the conference and not having a commish in place who will stand up like he has a pair and fight for us? The ACC managed to save a place for itself at the table because they have a commissioner who knows how to think on his feet and come up with a last minute plan to get the job done. Our commish hasn't even figured out how many BCS BOWLS there are and how many will be added to the playoff or if we will "be allowed" to sign with any.

But that belongs in another thread. AF and BYU will not be coming because the Big East is now perceived to be the equal of the Mountain West and far below the ACC.

But in reality--the Mountain West is nowhere close to the Big East and the Big East is really quite close to the ACC. Perception is subject to misinformation over the short term. Over the long term, perception eventually matches reality---its just takes a little time to get to the right place.

The funny thing is, weekly afternoon games on the NBC over the air broadcast network will quickly change that perception. For the casual football fan, if its on a major network, it must be major. To some extent, even the more rabid fans believe this subconciously.

Frankly, nothing matters up to now. This fall the Big East fate will be decided. If they get a good NBC TV contract, they will grab BYU and a couple of bowls that are just below the BCS in stature for thier eastern and western champions to play in. With those planned 14 teams and that bowl line-up, the Big East will be a very solid player on the college football landscape.

If the tv contract is weak and offers little increased visablility---the current nationwide Big East experiment is done for.

Good summary. Like I said a zillion times, a lot will be riding on this new TV deal. It will make or break the conference. If BE is able to get huge money, then commit for long term. If it is less money, then BE needs to commit to short term and renegotiate in a few years after chance to prove itself. Tier-3 rights would be important too in order to keep teams like ND around since they want to do their own network. Bowl negotiations should only involve ND if it benefits the BE. A place to park our champs when they are not in the playoff is an important piece that needs to be resolved as well. I hope NBC/FEDEX will be able to help with the bowl situation.

Also, it would be absolutely stupid for BYU and AF to close the door on any BE discussion. In this day and age, no one would be stupid enough to shut off any kind of exit for his/her program.

Really was a great summary and you have some good points as well. And therein lies the grass stains on the unis. The media contract is going to be critical in enticing BYU or AF to join. BYU might be inclined to join the conference if they think they are going to be left out of the bowl picture while ND gets a shot. Right now, they think of themselves as ND of the West, etc, and that ND is their "indy brother" and will drag them [BYU] into a playoff spot as well.

Air Force has different motivating factors and being in a "BCS" is not one of them. Also, they get federal funds to run the academy with so while money is important even to them, it is not a huge factor. What is a factor is rivalries: they like playing CSU and Wyoming. Now they also have a the game with Army and Navy, and Navy is now saying that if AF is not in the confernce then it is not important that they keep playing them. That could be the pin needed to bring them into the conference.

I just hope that the BE quits stalling around and get a fulltime commissioner in place before negotiations come into play.

(07-13-2012 10:54 AM)Road Apple Wrote:  But that belongs in another thread. AF and BYU will not be coming because the Big East is now perceived to be the equal of the Mountain West and no longer part of the national conversation.

You do realize that TCU, Utah, BYU and next year, Boise State, are and will NO LONGER members of the Mountain West, right?

Me thinks you probably think all of the above are still in the MWC.

(07-13-2012 10:54 AM)Road Apple Wrote:  

(07-13-2012 10:32 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(07-13-2012 10:10 AM)Road Apple Wrote:  

(07-13-2012 10:02 AM)attackfrog Wrote:  

(07-13-2012 08:15 AM)IceJus10 Wrote:  Air Force didn't actually tell the Big East no... it just said they couldn't commit to the conference at that time, but left the door open for the future.

The BYU and Air Force answers were very similar. The door is still open to both.

Might be open, but now that AQ is gone and BE commish Joe Bailey and company has meekly allowed the "Power 5" and their ESPN parrots to trash-talk the Big East down into lower tier status, neither one will up on joining anytime soon.

That was going to happen no matter what we did or said.

Maybe. But to surrender without a fight? Letting ESPN trash-talk the conference and not having a commish in place who will stand up like he has a pair and fight for us? The ACC managed to save a place for itself at the table because they have a commissioner who knows how to think on his feet and come up with a last minute plan to get the job done. Our commish hasn't even figured out how many BCS BOWLS there are and how many will be added to the playoffs.

But that belongs in another thread. AF and BYU will not be coming because the Big East is now perceived to be the equal of the Mountain West and no longer part of the national conversation.

You don't understand how this is working. It doesn't matter who is commish of either our league or the ACC. ESPN owns 100% of the rights of the ACC for almost the next 2 decades. They were having a seat no matter what we said or did short of signing away our rights for a pittance over almost 20 years.

What does screaming on TV solve? The real fight is in the conference room not the TV stations. Even if public perception was better for us they still want us out. Getting into he said she saids with every dummy out there is not the correct way to go about things. You have no idea what the conference is up to. if you seriously think that all the schools, yes thats who the conference is after all, just rolled over and gave up then you are clueless. Quit being a chicken little and think things through in a real world/business world aspect. No professional who is taken seriously does the things you want done.

(07-13-2012 12:49 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(07-13-2012 10:54 AM)Road Apple Wrote:  

(07-13-2012 10:32 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(07-13-2012 10:10 AM)Road Apple Wrote:  

(07-13-2012 10:02 AM)attackfrog Wrote:  The BYU and Air Force answers were very similar. The door is still open to both.

Might be open, but now that AQ is gone and BE commish Joe Bailey and company has meekly allowed the "Power 5" and their ESPN parrots to trash-talk the Big East down into lower tier status, neither one will up on joining anytime soon.

That was going to happen no matter what we did or said.

Maybe. But to surrender without a fight? Letting ESPN trash-talk the conference and not having a commish in place who will stand up like he has a pair and fight for us? The ACC managed to save a place for itself at the table because they have a commissioner who knows how to think on his feet and come up with a last minute plan to get the job done. Our commish hasn't even figured out how many BCS BOWLS there are and how many will be added to the playoffs.

But that belongs in another thread. AF and BYU will not be coming because the Big East is now perceived to be the equal of the Mountain West and no longer part of the national conversation.

You don't understand how this is working. It doesn't matter who is commish of either our league or the ACC. ESPN owns 100% of the rights of the ACC for almost the next 2 decades. They were having a seat no matter what we said or did short of signing away our rights for a pittance over almost 20 years.

What does screaming on TV solve? The real fight is in the conference room not the TV stations. Even if public perception was better for us they still want us out. Getting into he said she saids with every dummy out there is not the correct way to go about things. You have no idea what the conference is up to. if you seriously think that all the schools, yes thats who the conference is after all, just rolled over and gave up then you are clueless. Quit being a chicken little and think things through in a real world/business world aspect. No professional who is taken seriously does the things you want done.

Stating positive facts and even a few negative ones on say the ACC can still be done in a very professional manner.

But seeing how the Big East only has an interim Commish who has done very little to talk about the positive aspects of the Big East when it comes to football and the bright side of expansion in 2013, believe most are hoping that the "new" voice of the Commish's office (or maybe its a Big East Univ President that becomes the "voice" of a conf) can bring it on a national stage...in a professional manner.

(07-13-2012 05:54 AM)TripleA Wrote:  I know some of you guys love Fresno, and I have no problem with them, but right now, we're only going to 14. BYU is the obvious #1 target, and AFA is #2. I think one of those two will join. I doubt any of us will change that dynamic, lol.

Let's be clear since some of you easterners don't quite seem to understand.

It isn't so much that we Aztecs and Broncos love Fresno. Or at least that's not the case with SDSU fans. It's that we've been in a conference with AFA for 34 years, during which the following has occurred.

1. SDSU opened MWC baseball play one year by flying to Colorado Springs to have the 3-game series snowed out. When SDSU offered to make up those games when AFA came to SD later in the year by allowing AFA to be the home team in our stadium, AFA said they would just as soon not but would if the league office wanted them to. Naturally AFA didn't care because they were awful as they always are so the games had no particular meaning to them. However, BYU reportedly complained and Craig Thompson cancelled the games, as the result of which BYU edged out SDSU for first place by half a game. Since SDSU almost always sweeps AFA in baseball . . .

2. AFA beat SDSU in football one year by using a fumblerooskie late in the fourth quarter which went for a TD. The play was outlawed by the NCAA following the season.

3. AFA basketball has been near the cellar of the MWC almost annually. That would be fine if it was the BE maybe since BE doormats still have a decent RPI. However, AFA's generally lousy RPI always hurts MWC schools' tournament seeding.

4. Don't anybody be mistaken that AFA is only bad in baseball and hoops. AFA has won exactly one MWC title in the 13 years the conference has been in existence.

I could go on but I'll just end with this. If I absolutely knew the BE west would never evolve into an all-sports division, maybe adding AFA wouldn't be too bad. However, once AFA is in for football, if the division expands to all sports for everybody, AFA is going to be a horrible addition to the BE. The same certainly can't be said for Fresno, which isn't great but is at least decent in hoops and has won a NC in baseball.

^ We understand all that. It's not exactly rocket science. But as of now, there is no BE all sports division, although they finally did admit publicly that it could be a consideration. But for now, we're talking football only, and in that context, only BYU and AFA are being considered, so far.

(07-13-2012 04:16 PM)SleepingGiantsFan Wrote:  

(07-13-2012 05:54 AM)TripleA Wrote:  I know some of you guys love Fresno, and I have no problem with them, but right now, we're only going to 14. BYU is the obvious #1 target, and AFA is #2. I think one of those two will join. I doubt any of us will change that dynamic, lol.

Let's be clear since some of you easterners don't quite seem to understand.

It isn't so much that we Aztecs and Broncos love Fresno. Or at least that's not the case with SDSU fans. It's that we've been in a conference with AFA for 34 years, during which the following has occurred.

1. SDSU opened MWC baseball play one year by flying to Colorado Springs to have the 3-game series snowed out. When SDSU offered to make up those games when AFA came to SD later in the year by allowing AFA to be the home team in our stadium, AFA said they would just as soon not but would if the league office wanted them to. Naturally AFA didn't care because they were awful as they always are so the games had no particular meaning to them. However, BYU reportedly complained and Craig Thompson cancelled the games, as the result of which BYU edged out SDSU for first place by half a game. Since SDSU almost always sweeps AFA in baseball . . .

2. AFA beat SDSU in football one year by using a fumblerooskie late in the fourth quarter which went for a TD. The play was outlawed by the NCAA following the season.

3. AFA basketball has been near the cellar of the MWC almost annually. That would be fine if it was the BE maybe since BE doormats still have a decent RPI. However, AFA's generally lousy RPI always hurts MWC schools' tournament seeding.

4. Don't anybody be mistaken that AFA is only bad in baseball and hoops. AFA has won exactly one MWC title in the 13 years the conference has been in existence.

I could go on but I'll just end with this. If I absolutely knew the BE west would never evolve into an all-sports division, maybe adding AFA wouldn't be too bad. However, once AFA is in for football, if the division expands to all sports for everybody, AFA is going to be a horrible addition to the BE. The same certainly can't be said for Fresno, which isn't great but is at least decent in hoops and has won a NC in baseball.

I frankly hope we never have to move past BYU on the candidate list for #14.

I think when you construct a conference in this day and age you consider one thing...football.

(07-14-2012 12:21 AM)Cooglius Caeser Wrote:  I think when you construct a conference in this day and age you consider one thing...football.

Thats true, unless it's an all sports conference and the rest of the athletic dept is a dumpster fire.

(07-13-2012 10:57 PM)attackfrog Wrote:  

(07-13-2012 04:16 PM)SleepingGiantsFan Wrote:  

(07-13-2012 05:54 AM)TripleA Wrote:  I know some of you guys love Fresno, and I have no problem with them, but right now, we're only going to 14. BYU is the obvious #1 target, and AFA is #2. I think one of those two will join. I doubt any of us will change that dynamic, lol.

Let's be clear since some of you easterners don't quite seem to understand.

It isn't so much that we Aztecs and Broncos love Fresno. Or at least that's not the case with SDSU fans. It's that we've been in a conference with AFA for 34 years, during which the following has occurred.

1. SDSU opened MWC baseball play one year by flying to Colorado Springs to have the 3-game series snowed out. When SDSU offered to make up those games when AFA came to SD later in the year by allowing AFA to be the home team in our stadium, AFA said they would just as soon not but would if the league office wanted them to. Naturally AFA didn't care because they were awful as they always are so the games had no particular meaning to them. However, BYU reportedly complained and Craig Thompson cancelled the games, as the result of which BYU edged out SDSU for first place by half a game. Since SDSU almost always sweeps AFA in baseball . . .

2. AFA beat SDSU in football one year by using a fumblerooskie late in the fourth quarter which went for a TD. The play was outlawed by the NCAA following the season.

3. AFA basketball has been near the cellar of the MWC almost annually. That would be fine if it was the BE maybe since BE doormats still have a decent RPI. However, AFA's generally lousy RPI always hurts MWC schools' tournament seeding.

4. Don't anybody be mistaken that AFA is only bad in baseball and hoops. AFA has won exactly one MWC title in the 13 years the conference has been in existence.

I could go on but I'll just end with this. If I absolutely knew the BE west would never evolve into an all-sports division, maybe adding AFA wouldn't be too bad. However, once AFA is in for football, if the division expands to all sports for everybody, AFA is going to be a horrible addition to the BE. The same certainly can't be said for Fresno, which isn't great but is at least decent in hoops and has won a NC in baseball.

I frankly hope we never have to move past BYU on the candidate list for #14.

You've never had to deal with BYU, that's why. One year they lost in a championship game in bball and I think it was UNLV fans stormed the court, their psycho fans including one of the players wives started grabbing the fans to keep them off the court. BYU went barn storming saying how they were being persecuted and attacked and demanded the league put up a huge wall around the court. They got one of their alums' companies the tv deal, he sold CSTV to CBS sports, and then the deal was the worst thing to ever happen and they left. Working with BYU is a deal with the Devil, which is why them working with ESPN and being Indy is exactly where they should be for everyone's sake.