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bitcruncher Offline
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[split] Religious War
(07-05-2012 01:06 PM)Seven Would Be Nice Wrote:  
(07-05-2012 07:30 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  
(07-05-2012 07:22 AM)bladhmadh Wrote:  
(07-05-2012 06:41 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Terry, in the eyes of most of the nation, there's little difference between Jesuits and Catholics...
in the eyes of most of the world there is little difference between protestants and catholics. to those involved those differences are important.
Those who think the differences are important are lunatics. They all worship the same God. They all recognize Jesus as the son of God. The only difference between the 2 is the differences in the ritual ceremonies...

And for this reason, religious lunatics have been breaking one of the 10 commandments for thousands of years. Didn't God tell everyone Thou Shalt Not Kill?

Yet religious zealots have been killing people for stupid reasons since the dawn of time...
Actually, I think it was originally Thou Shall Not Murder, but has been more popularly translated to Thou Shall Not Kill.


Quote:Killing or murder
Main article: You shall not kill


The Sixth Commandment, as translated by the Book of Common Prayer (1549).
The image is from the altar screen of the Temple Church near the Law Courts in London.
Multiple translations exist of the fifth/sixth commandment; the Hebrew words לא תרצח (lo tirtzach) are variously translated as "thou shalt not kill" or "thou shalt not murder".[50]
The imperative is against unlawful killing resulting in bloodguilt.[51] The Hebrew Bible contains numerous prohibitions against unlawful killing, but also allows for justified killing in the context of warfare (1Kings 2:5–6), capital punishment (Leviticus 20:9–16) and self-defence (Exodus 22:2–3). The New Testament is in agreement that murder is a grave moral evil,[52] and maintains the Old Testament view of bloodguilt.[53]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments
And in the original Aramaic form, the Old Testament says the world was created in 7 periods of time, not days. The term used for the period of time was non specific, which leaves a lot of wiggle room. The Jews were the ones who shortened it to 7 days, when the Old Testament was translated into ancient Hebrew, and the Romans turned their mistake into fact in the Latin versions...
(This post was last modified: 07-05-2012 01:47 PM by bitcruncher.)
07-05-2012 01:46 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #2
RE: ND taking 33,000 to Dublin, Ireland for Navy game
(07-05-2012 01:46 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  
(07-05-2012 01:06 PM)Seven Would Be Nice Wrote:  
(07-05-2012 07:30 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  
(07-05-2012 07:22 AM)bladhmadh Wrote:  
(07-05-2012 06:41 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Terry, in the eyes of most of the nation, there's little difference between Jesuits and Catholics...
in the eyes of most of the world there is little difference between protestants and catholics. to those involved those differences are important.
Those who think the differences are important are lunatics. They all worship the same God. They all recognize Jesus as the son of God. The only difference between the 2 is the differences in the ritual ceremonies...

And for this reason, religious lunatics have been breaking one of the 10 commandments for thousands of years. Didn't God tell everyone Thou Shalt Not Kill?

Yet religious zealots have been killing people for stupid reasons since the dawn of time...
Actually, I think it was originally Thou Shall Not Murder, but has been more popularly translated to Thou Shall Not Kill.


Quote:Killing or murder
Main article: You shall not kill


The Sixth Commandment, as translated by the Book of Common Prayer (1549).
The image is from the altar screen of the Temple Church near the Law Courts in London.
Multiple translations exist of the fifth/sixth commandment; the Hebrew words לא תרצח (lo tirtzach) are variously translated as "thou shalt not kill" or "thou shalt not murder".[50]
The imperative is against unlawful killing resulting in bloodguilt.[51] The Hebrew Bible contains numerous prohibitions against unlawful killing, but also allows for justified killing in the context of warfare (1Kings 2:5–6), capital punishment (Leviticus 20:9–16) and self-defence (Exodus 22:2–3). The New Testament is in agreement that murder is a grave moral evil,[52] and maintains the Old Testament view of bloodguilt.[53]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments
And in the original Aramaic form, the Old Testament says the world was created in 7 periods of time, not days. The term used for the period of time was non specific, which leaves a lot of wiggle room. The Jews were the ones who shortened it to 7 days, when the Old Testament was translated into ancient Hebrew, and the Romans turned their mistake into fact in the Latin versions...

Interestingly enough there Bit, the actual beginning of the Hebrew text chronologically starts in Genesis 2 between verses 2 & 3. You will find there a second creation story not too unlike some of the evolution theories. It is a relational narrative from an oral tradition. It reads easily and where it doesn't there is usually an addition to the text that can be found.

The first chapter is an addition from much later (probably the Babylonian exile). The seven days were tied to the origins of the lunar calendar for the Hebrews. If you will notice the accounts of this creation story center around the number of days (7), seeds coming from plants of the same kind, and the lesser and greater light given for the delineation of seasons. The Babylonians first believed that there were 10 days in a week and 3 weeks in what we would call a month. Needless to say they were never quite accurate with the planting of their crops, the expectations of monsoons, or with their harvest. That of course could account for why they believed the Red Dragon of Chaos (Tiamat) was in charge of their world. The Baal story is then how order is secured within a chaotic world.

While in captivity the Israelites retold the creation story with these agricultural points emphasized to their children to teach them that their captors didn't understand the nature of the real world as it was created because the Hebrew God had not selected them as his people. So contained in the story are instructions for agriculture, telling time by the phases of the moon, and the days by the rising and setting of the greater light. Thrown in was the benevolence of a loving God who commanded his people to set aside 1 day out of seven for rest.

So in the ancient cultures of the near East the Hebrews usually were blessed with good crops and food during what appeared to their neighbors to be odd times, or harsh times of the year. The Babylonians later modified their calendar to have 8 days in a week and 4 weeks in a month. It is unclear if the Babylonians were using a 10 or 8 day week at the time of the Israelite captivity, but it makes little difference. The Babylonians with an 8 day week were close, but still no cigar. Passover is also an agricultural reminder.

By the way the Old Testament is in Hebrew. The New Testament largely in Greek, with small portions in Aramaic. Aramaic was the language of Jesus' time on Earth in Palestine.

The dialect of Hebrew in the Old Testament changes with the influences of other semitic cultures around the Israelites and the dating of the language can be approximated using some of the semitic idioms that creep into the language from those outside influences.

To show just how much suffers in translation when the David wanted a temple the prophet replied that God had said "Have I (God) not been content to dwell among you in a tent." The tabernacle of course had been in a tent while the children of Israel were roaming the wilderness. But tent is not the Hebrew word, but rather "flesh" as the tents were made from animal skins. Now that changes the whole perspective on the temple issue. JR
07-05-2012 02:17 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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RE: ND taking 33,000 to Dublin, Ireland for Navy game
All you have to do is look at the Book of Genesis in the King James Version, and compare it to the New American Revised Standard Version. The word "herb", which is a label for something God supposedly created for our use and benefit, has disappeared...

If you wanted, you could pick apart the Bible line by line, pointing out inconsistencies and errors in the various translations, changes made for political reasons, and so on down the line...
07-05-2012 02:23 PM
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RE: ND taking 33,000 to Dublin, Ireland for Navy game
(07-05-2012 08:04 AM)bronconick Wrote:  
(07-05-2012 07:30 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  
(07-05-2012 07:22 AM)bladhmadh Wrote:  
(07-05-2012 06:41 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Terry, in the eyes of most of the nation, there's little difference between Jesuits and Catholics...
in the eyes of most of the world there is little difference between protestants and catholics. to those involved those differences are important.
Those who think the differences are important are lunatics. They all worship the same God. They all recognize Jesus as the son of God. The only difference between the 2 is the differences in the ritual ceremonies...

And for this reason, religious lunatics have been breaking one of the 10 commandments for thousands of years. Didn't God tell everyone Thou Shalt Not Kill?

Yet religious zealots have been killing people for stupid reasons since the dawn of time...

I think I read in one of Clancy's books that Jack Ryan described it as "The differences caused nations to hate each other and people to attempt to kill each other, which makes them as important as any difference can be." I think he was referring to Shi'a/Sunni Muslims, but the point remained.

The prohibition we placed in English as "Thou Shalt not kill" is actually a prohibition against the taking of life in two ways, murder, and through your negligence. We call the latter manslaughter. The Hebrews had three words for the taking of life. Not included in the prohibition were execution, and self defense most commonly associated with warfare. These are seldom illustrated as they are unpopular in our age.

But to your second point. Esau married the daughter of Ismael. If the land had passed to the eldest as the law of that time commanded, rather than to Jacob, then both the descendants of Ismael (today a large part of the Muslim world) and the descendants of Esau (and of Isaac) would both be heirs to what is disputed. This is interesting because the language relating to the exchange of the birthright in the Jacob and Esau story is a later insertion. Go figure. JR
07-05-2012 02:26 PM
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RE: ND taking 33,000 to Dublin, Ireland for Navy game
(07-05-2012 02:23 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  All you have to do is look at the Book of Genesis in the King James Version, and compare it to the New American Revised Standard Version. The word "herb", which is a label for something God supposedly created for our use and benefit, has disappeared...

If you wanted, you could pick apart the Bible line by line, pointing out inconsistencies and errors in the various translations, changes made for political reasons, and so on down the line...

That's right. There are three things one has to keep in mind when reading the Bible, or any text held to be divine. All of them have to do with who is speaking to whom. Is what is written man speaking to God. If so it is not free of mis-perceptions or mistakes. Is it man speaking to man about God. Apply the same. Is it God speaking to man.

If it is God speaking to man then you need to do two things. Listen. And, start checking sources, language translations, who paid the scribes and priests, (when David solidified the kingdom the Crown started paying the priests. Who pays you is who you work for, until then the priests subsisted on the offerings to God by the people.) And what were the political climates like during the time of each translation. Many PHD's have been made out of such. Take care, JR.
07-05-2012 02:48 PM
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RE: ND taking 33,000 to Dublin, Ireland for Navy game
(07-05-2012 02:23 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  All you have to do is look at the Book of Genesis in the King James Version, and compare it to the New American Revised Standard Version. The word "herb", which is a label for something God supposedly created for our use and benefit, has disappeared...

If you wanted, you could pick apart the Bible line by line, pointing out inconsistencies and errors in the various translations, changes made for political reasons, and so on down the line...

No way... you mean Joshua followed the Ten Commandments to the letter, and NEVER killed nor ordered others to do so? 03-lmfao

Actually, I agree with you on this point. A book that has been reassembled & retranslated so many times hardly could be expected not to have some inconsistency and loss of context that makes things confusing to a point.
(This post was last modified: 07-05-2012 02:57 PM by BadWillHunting.)
07-05-2012 02:56 PM
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AtlanticLeague Offline
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RE: ND taking 33,000 to Dublin, Ireland for Navy game
(07-05-2012 02:48 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-05-2012 02:23 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  All you have to do is look at the Book of Genesis in the King James Version, and compare it to the New American Revised Standard Version. The word "herb", which is a label for something God supposedly created for our use and benefit, has disappeared...

If you wanted, you could pick apart the Bible line by line, pointing out inconsistencies and errors in the various translations, changes made for political reasons, and so on down the line...

That's right. There are three things one has to keep in mind when reading the Bible, or any text held to be divine. All of them have to do with who is speaking to whom. Is what is written man speaking to God. If so it is not free of mis-perceptions or mistakes. Is it man speaking to man about God. Apply the same. Is it God speaking to man.

If it is God speaking to man then you need to do two things. Listen. And, start checking sources, language translations, who paid the scribes and priests, (when David solidified the kingdom the Crown started paying the priests. Who pays you is who you work for, until then the priests subsisted on the offerings to God by the people.) And what were the political climates like during the time of each translation. Many PHD's have been made out of such. Take care, JR.

This is hilarious. If you're that skeptical, go with your gut and call it a day. Faith in religious texts requires keeping your eyes shut. Don't open them unless you want to be disappointed.
(This post was last modified: 07-05-2012 03:04 PM by AtlanticLeague.)
07-05-2012 03:00 PM
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RE: ND taking 33,000 to Dublin, Ireland for Navy game
(07-05-2012 03:00 PM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  
(07-05-2012 02:48 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-05-2012 02:23 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  All you have to do is look at the Book of Genesis in the King James Version, and compare it to the New American Revised Standard Version. The word "herb", which is a label for something God supposedly created for our use and benefit, has disappeared...

If you wanted, you could pick apart the Bible line by line, pointing out inconsistencies and errors in the various translations, changes made for political reasons, and so on down the line...

That's right. There are three things one has to keep in mind when reading the Bible, or any text held to be divine. All of them have to do with who is speaking to whom. Is what is written man speaking to God. If so it is not free of mis-perceptions or mistakes. Is it man speaking to man about God. Apply the same. Is it God speaking to man.

If it is God speaking to man then you need to do two things. Listen. And, start checking sources, language translations, who paid the scribes and priests, (when David solidified the kingdom the Crown started paying the priests. Who pays you is who you work for, until then the priests subsisted on the offerings to God by the people.) And what were the political climates like during the time of each translation. Many PHD's have been made out of such. Take care, JR.

This is hilarious. If you're that skeptical, go with your gut and call it a day. Faith in religious texts requires keeping your eyes shut. Don't open them unless you want to be disappointed.
That's not so. How they were written, who wrote them, how they've been applied are all part of our collective history, if not our faith. To understand your place in the world sometimes it is necessary to understand how the world got the way it was before you were placed in it. The world is the way it is for reasons. Reason can help us out of some of the blind alleys that the ill practice of religion have placed us into. Sometimes, many times, people of faith are worth saving from the mis-perceptions they act upon or hold as truth. Most people of faith believe change is possible and that they are responsible to assist it. Most of the world religions contain a baseline of moral absolutes upon which almost all law has been built. At the core these form a gestalt for humanity. While faith has seldom been guilty of mass murder, religion has frequently been guilty of it and worse. Faith seems to focus on positive improvements, religion on the negative side of humanity which it then seeks to control (another evil).

I would rather understand a problem than to laugh at and/or ignore one.
Problems are seldom solved by the dismissive who are part of the bigger problem, inertia. They are however frequently solved by persons of vision who act in faith that a better world is possible. JR
(This post was last modified: 07-05-2012 03:23 PM by JRsec.)
07-05-2012 03:21 PM
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RE: ND taking 33,000 to Dublin, Ireland for Navy game
(07-05-2012 03:21 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-05-2012 03:00 PM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  
(07-05-2012 02:48 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-05-2012 02:23 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  All you have to do is look at the Book of Genesis in the King James Version, and compare it to the New American Revised Standard Version. The word "herb", which is a label for something God supposedly created for our use and benefit, has disappeared...

If you wanted, you could pick apart the Bible line by line, pointing out inconsistencies and errors in the various translations, changes made for political reasons, and so on down the line...

That's right. There are three things one has to keep in mind when reading the Bible, or any text held to be divine. All of them have to do with who is speaking to whom. Is what is written man speaking to God. If so it is not free of mis-perceptions or mistakes. Is it man speaking to man about God. Apply the same. Is it God speaking to man.

If it is God speaking to man then you need to do two things. Listen. And, start checking sources, language translations, who paid the scribes and priests, (when David solidified the kingdom the Crown started paying the priests. Who pays you is who you work for, until then the priests subsisted on the offerings to God by the people.) And what were the political climates like during the time of each translation. Many PHD's have been made out of such. Take care, JR.

This is hilarious. If you're that skeptical, go with your gut and call it a day. Faith in religious texts requires keeping your eyes shut. Don't open them unless you want to be disappointed.
That's not so. How they were written, who wrote them, how they've been applied are all part of our collective history, if not our faith. To understand your place in the world sometimes it is necessary to understand how the world got the way it was before you were placed in it. The world is the way it is for reasons. Reason can help us out of some of the blind alleys that the ill practice of religion have placed us into. Sometimes, many times, people of faith are worth saving from the mis-perceptions they act upon or hold as truth. Most people of faith believe change is possible and that they are responsible to assist it. Most of the world religions contain a baseline of moral absolutes upon which almost all law has been built. At the core these form a gestalt for humanity. While faith has seldom been guilty of mass murder, religion has frequently been guilty of it and worse. Faith seems to focus on positive improvements, religion on the negative side of humanity which it then seeks to control (another evil).

I would rather understand a problem than to laugh at and/or ignore one.
Problems are seldom solved by the dismissive who are part of the bigger problem, inertia. They are however frequently solved by persons of vision who act in faith that a better world is possible. JR

Oh, a better world is possible. It just requires more hands working and fewer hands praying.
07-05-2012 03:34 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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RE: ND taking 33,000 to Dublin, Ireland for Navy game
(07-05-2012 03:21 PM)JRsec Wrote:  While faith has seldom been guilty of mass murder, religion has frequently been guilty of it and worse. Faith seems to focus on positive improvements, religion on the negative side of humanity which it then seeks to control (another evil).
Are you sure you meant to say that? The Germans faith in the Nazis ability to correct all of Germany's problems, and create a Reich that would last 1000 years, led to WWII and the mass murder of half the Jews on Earth...

The faith of the Japanese in their God Emporer Hirohito led them to attack the entire Pacific basin, and ultimately led to the first 2 Atomic weapons ever deployed in battle being used on Japanese citizens...

The faith of the French in Napoleon led the entire French Army to die in the harshest winter in Russian history on the doorsteps of Moscow, after murdering folks scattered between Moscow and the French border...

I could go on. But you should get the idea by now...
07-05-2012 03:41 PM
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RE: ND taking 33,000 to Dublin, Ireland for Navy game
(07-05-2012 03:34 PM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  
(07-05-2012 03:21 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-05-2012 03:00 PM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  
(07-05-2012 02:48 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-05-2012 02:23 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  All you have to do is look at the Book of Genesis in the King James Version, and compare it to the New American Revised Standard Version. The word "herb", which is a label for something God supposedly created for our use and benefit, has disappeared...

If you wanted, you could pick apart the Bible line by line, pointing out inconsistencies and errors in the various translations, changes made for political reasons, and so on down the line...

That's right. There are three things one has to keep in mind when reading the Bible, or any text held to be divine. All of them have to do with who is speaking to whom. Is what is written man speaking to God. If so it is not free of mis-perceptions or mistakes. Is it man speaking to man about God. Apply the same. Is it God speaking to man.

If it is God speaking to man then you need to do two things. Listen. And, start checking sources, language translations, who paid the scribes and priests, (when David solidified the kingdom the Crown started paying the priests. Who pays you is who you work for, until then the priests subsisted on the offerings to God by the people.) And what were the political climates like during the time of each translation. Many PHD's have been made out of such. Take care, JR.

This is hilarious. If you're that skeptical, go with your gut and call it a day. Faith in religious texts requires keeping your eyes shut. Don't open them unless you want to be disappointed.
That's not so. How they were written, who wrote them, how they've been applied are all part of our collective history, if not our faith. To understand your place in the world sometimes it is necessary to understand how the world got the way it was before you were placed in it. The world is the way it is for reasons. Reason can help us out of some of the blind alleys that the ill practice of religion have placed us into. Sometimes, many times, people of faith are worth saving from the mis-perceptions they act upon or hold as truth. Most people of faith believe change is possible and that they are responsible to assist it. Most of the world religions contain a baseline of moral absolutes upon which almost all law has been built. At the core these form a gestalt for humanity. While faith has seldom been guilty of mass murder, religion has frequently been guilty of it and worse. Faith seems to focus on positive improvements, religion on the negative side of humanity which it then seeks to control (another evil).

I would rather understand a problem than to laugh at and/or ignore one.
Problems are seldom solved by the dismissive who are part of the bigger problem, inertia. They are however frequently solved by persons of vision who act in faith that a better world is possible. JR

Oh, a better world is possible. It just requires more hands working and fewer hands praying.
If they want to pray they can do it while they work. Take care. JR
07-05-2012 05:34 PM
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RE: ND taking 33,000 to Dublin, Ireland for Navy game
(07-05-2012 03:41 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  
(07-05-2012 03:21 PM)JRsec Wrote:  While faith has seldom been guilty of mass murder, religion has frequently been guilty of it and worse. Faith seems to focus on positive improvements, religion on the negative side of humanity which it then seeks to control (another evil).
Are you sure you meant to say that? The Germans faith in the Nazis ability to correct all of Germany's problems, and create a Reich that would last 1000 years, led to WWII and the mass murder of half the Jews on Earth...

The faith of the Japanese in their God Emporer Hirohito led them to attack the entire Pacific basin, and ultimately led to the first 2 Atomic weapons ever deployed in battle being used on Japanese citizens...

The faith of the French in Napoleon led the entire French Army to die in the harshest winter in Russian history on the doorsteps of Moscow, after murdering folks scattered between Moscow and the French border...

I could go on. But you should get the idea by now...

On the contrary, what you call faith was actually religion. National Socialism in all of its public rites and private rituals was a religion right down to Wagner's tracts and Mein Kampf. The people of Japan worshiped the emperor as a god. Napoleon essentially abolished the church to proclaim the only religion to be that of empire and nationalism. The French were just one of the first to replace the organized church's form of religion with secular humanism. In religion you are promised something in return for your support, in faith you are not. In religion someone decides when you are in the group, in faith they do not, it's private. In religion your goals are set for you, in faith they are not. In religion punishment follows for those who do not adhere to group standards, in faith it does not. You were out of your depth in your remarks about the Old Testament yesterday, and are not grasping the nuance made in my first remark. And one of my upper level degrees is in religion and while I am not saying I have all of the answers much of what I have read here in the posts that prompted my initial reply has been the repetition of common mis-perceptions or outright ignorance.

I have not mentioned religion in any of my posts until I responded to the foolishness I read yesterday. JR
07-06-2012 12:17 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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RE: ND taking 33,000 to Dublin, Ireland for Navy game
JR, you should concede the point, since you're just quibbling to avoid admitting a mistake...

No religion can exist without the faith of its believers...
(This post was last modified: 07-06-2012 12:51 PM by bitcruncher.)
07-06-2012 12:51 PM
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RE: ND taking 33,000 to Dublin, Ireland for Navy game
(07-06-2012 12:51 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  JR, you should concede the point, since you're just quibbling to avoid admitting a mistake...

No religion can exist without the faith of its believers...

Your comment is classic projection. It is your arrogance that cannot concede the point and has heretofore only quibbled with cracker barrel philosophical observations. Most religion is based upon a quid pro quo which requires works and not faith. Faith is what it is because it requires no promise of something in return. A person chooses to believe in something intangible and wholly out of their control, an ideal for lack of a better word. They dedicate themselves to that hope, without promise of benefit, and that is what they work toward. It becomes their organizing principle. People of faith are hard to manipulate or control and are very frequently targeted by the religious for whom control is everything. Look at Jesus for example, he was killed by the religious.

People who are religious are easier to control. They tend to be either works righteous, or superstitious. The works righteous pick the religious rules they wish to follow, and that in their opinion they will keep, and then they use those rules by which to judge others. They tend to mitigate the rules they know they will not observe. Hence the birth of denominationalism in Christianity and the various sects in Islam. We know them by their fruits, a schizophrenic society in which we punish a common thief but allow executives to steal billions. Where we nab a kid for possession, but don't seriously try to stop trafficking. Where we nail a public official for a sexual indiscretion, but ignore a history of subversion of our political system. I believe the NT called that straining at a gnat and then swallowing a camel.

The superstitious believe that good will come from right conduct and evil from bad conduct. They feel their behavior will mandate particular outcomes in life. Even though they are like the works righteous in that there is a quid pro quo based on observances, the superstitious aren't looking to judge others. However, in their minds everyone must observe the superstitions they observe or the proper collective outcome will be voided. Out of fear of the bad they force others into compliance. Both the works righteous and the superstitious claim to be people of faith, but neither display the characteristics of faith. They do display all the characteristics of religiosity.

I came to this board for football. I have spoken often of the economy because it is directly influencing the events of realignment. The only time I have even briefly alluded to religion was to wish the other posters a Happy Thanksgiving on the appropriate thread, and a quip with you about Taoism. It seems to me that you are the one who has violated board rules by bringing the subject of religion into a football thread. My responses were made to inform when, as I said before, blatant mis-perceptions and outright ignorance of the subject matter were expressed as fact. E.G. Your discussion of the ten commandments and of the language of the Old Testament.

I notice this board has rules against personal attacks based upon a number of social criteria, but the lampooning of faith by the poster from Maryland yesterday apparently doesn't violate them. Of course I didn't file a complaint, he wasn't a bad person, just another operating under a mis-conception. It was another example of the growing intolerance in our society of people's right to think, or express, what they deem as an organizing principle for their lives. But then Herr Goebbels (the original spokesperson of political correctness) used tolerance to promote intolerance as well.

My opinion of you has crashed because in an area in which you have no expertise (the Old Testament was not written in Aramaic) you do not have the humility to admit when you are wrong. Instead you level that accusation against me. You might try educating yourself in the source theory of Julius Wellhausen and the writings of Walter Brugermann as they apply to the Tanach.

I also noticed you closed the thread on Clemson and F.S.U. fans opinions after a post in which I pointed out the bias of this board. (I do just chalk that up to coincidence, it was a weak thread.) It is a small wonder there are so few from the SEC who post here. I might add few from the PAC 12, few from the old ACC, and much fewer than I expected from the Big 10 post here. To my knowledge there is not one SEC moderator on this board. And until today I didn't even realize that we needed one for religion.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but when they state their opinions as fact they had better be able to back them up. It is a fact that the Old Testament was written in various dialects of Hebrew. The apocrypha may contain some, but little, Aramaic, but it does so because it was written in the time between the writing of the Old Testament and the story of the Christ. After Constantine circa 330 ce it was Latin. The Leningrad Codex and the Vulgate which were used in the King James translation in 1604 were in Latin. (Thank you Guttenberg.) There are a few phrases in the OT that were appropriated from other Semitic languages. Outside of that Aramaic doesn't make even a significant appearance in the New Testament. There are a few phrases in the Gospel of John. It was however the language of New Testament Palestine, but the educated wrote in Greek. Just facts to enlighten the great bull shooters of the world.

It is you who have been wrong, and about more than I was kind enough to bring up over my time posting here. Unless something is particularly germane, or particularly wrong, I let it slide. Realignment posting has been speculative and fun. The ardor expressed by many who take a more thuggish approach to the defense of their beliefs has not. Then there are those who have attained a status by their many posts and use longevity as the credentials with which to defend their lack of knowledge instead of relying upon the community of posters to arrive at a truth.

No it's not a perfect system. It has many faults. Too bad, but it has been one of the few places to find a cross conference perspective, even if it is a limited one. JR

And by the way, if there is a God, then that God exists whether we believe in it or not. Only religion needs the support (financial and otherwise) of humanity to exist. Your closing words sum up my initial point. Faith doesn't need, and indeed is incompatible with most religion. Religion needs the support of its followers to exist. All to often it needs the unquestioned support of them. Faith, as a friend of mine is fond of saying, doesn't ask you to check your brain at the door. Why? Because Faith seeks an ideal it naturally welcomes questions that help it to arrive at truth. And because there is Faith no question is a heresy to ask. Faith never claims to know all things, but it does hope to arrive at the understanding of truth with others.
(This post was last modified: 07-06-2012 03:18 PM by JRsec.)
07-06-2012 03:07 PM
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