(06-20-2012 04:23 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 04:11 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  3. The ACC is should be making this same offer and then the interest would be more mutual. It would be a big opportunity to for them solidly their gains in the northeast. The extra games against Notre Dame might well also be a bigger deal for the ACC.

4. My guess is that if this comes to pass, Notre Dame isn't eligible for the Big 12/SEC Bowl, but will be for any other Big 12 tie-in.

If (4) is right, that's two points where the ACC could beat the B12's offer: Tell ND they only have to play 2 or 3 ACC opponents in football, and give them access to the Orange Bowl.

Again, that's if the ACC is smart enough and awake enough to do that.

They have been playing more than 2 or 3 ACC opponents per year anyway so I'm not seeing where that is an advantage.

There isn't much money in adding one more men's basketball program to the ACC. They already have a pretty good lineup of basketball teams. The other sports don't bring in money so there is no point in them either.

So you'd have the ACC give up bowl slots to ND for less football games than they are playing now in exchange for ND's basketball program.

Why would the ACC care if ND is a partial member of the Big East or a partial member of the B12? If full membership is on the line then it is a different story. The basketball league that ND plays in doesn't matter. It didn't hold the Big East together so why would it make the B12 a lot more powerful?

(06-20-2012 04:20 PM)BE Tex Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:44 PM)attackfrog Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:09 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:00 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  Are there 4 teams in the XII that ND would want to play? Texas and Oklahoma for sure, but after that? WVU? And again, what does non-FB membership in the XII offer ND that they don't get in the BE? What does ND do with men's soccer and lacrosse? I have no doubt that the XII has offered, but what is the realistic possibility that they will accept?

1) Better TV deal for their non-FB sports.
2) Better football scheduling agreements.
3) Better name brands schools to play in other sports.
4) Who cares about soccer and lacrosse? They can play anywhere.

It's pretty much common sense if you think about it. I would've expected ACC instead of Big 12 but I'd imagine the ACC wasn't interested at all in a partial membership. ND solves a lot of "issues" for the Big 12, namely WVU being on an island and offsetting BYU FB only if that's the plan.

If this is true I'd fully expect Louisville to Big 12 smoke to appear VERY soon.

All 4 of those answers are very weak. We dont have any idea how well an olympic sports only team would be paid in the Big 12. Id say most of the Big-12's TV value is in football. As for a football scheduling agreement---since when has Notre Dame needed that? Notre Dame can schedule anyone they want by just picking up a phone. Better name brands for other sports in the Big 12? Better than Georgetown? Better than St Johns? Better than UConn? When it comes to basketball some of the best "name" brands in the nation are in the Big East.

I tend to think Notre Dame is not going anywhere. They are not going to give up games in New York, Philly and Chicago to play in Stillwater and Norman.

I think this may have to do with Tier 3 rights and having ND start their own network like Texas. The ACC and Big 10 don't allow tier 3 right to schools. I guess the BE doesn't allow it also?

It has already been stated that ND determined a digital network was the way to go since they didn't have enough concentration of fans in any region to make a channel. All their football games are on NBC so there are no tier three football games either.

If this was all about money then ND would have joined the B10.

Perception, IMO. If ND switches leagues it will be perceived to be that they want to be affiliated with a "major league". The ACC would cement its status as one of those leagues by bringing ND on board, and overcome the anti-ACC slagging that resulted from the SEC-Big12 "champions bowl" deal. (Though I suppose it is possible that the criticism of the ACC appears more important to many on this board than it does to the powers-that-be in college football.)

(06-20-2012 04:38 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 04:23 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 04:11 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  3. The ACC is should be making this same offer and then the interest would be more mutual. It would be a big opportunity to for them solidly their gains in the northeast. The extra games against Notre Dame might well also be a bigger deal for the ACC.

4. My guess is that if this comes to pass, Notre Dame isn't eligible for the Big 12/SEC Bowl, but will be for any other Big 12 tie-in.

If (4) is right, that's two points where the ACC could beat the B12's offer: Tell ND they only have to play 2 or 3 ACC opponents in football, and give them access to the Orange Bowl.

Again, that's if the ACC is smart enough and awake enough to do that.

They have been playing more than 2 or 3 ACC opponents per year anyway so I'm not seeing where that is an advantage.

There isn't much money in adding one more men's basketball program to the ACC. They already have a pretty good lineup of basketball teams. The other sports don't bring in money so there is no point in them either.

So you'd have the ACC give up bowl slots to ND for less football games than they are playing now in exchange for ND's basketball program.

Why would the ACC care if ND is a partial member of the Big East or a partial member of the B12? If full membership is on the line then it is a different story. The basketball league that ND plays in doesn't matter. It didn't hold the Big East together so why would it make the B12 a lot more powerful?

If we move Pitt/Syracuse to the ACC for past and future schedules

2008- 4 (Pitt, Syracuse, North Carolina, BC)
2009- 2 (BC, Pitt)
2010- 2 (BC, Pitt)
2011- 4 (Wake, BC, Pitt, Maryland)
2012- 4 (Miami, Wake, Pitt, BC)
2013- 1 (Pitt) 11 games scheduled
2014- 2 (Syracuse, Pitt) 11 games
2015- 4 (Wake, Pitt, Syracuse, BC) 11 games
2016- 4 (Syracuse, Pitt, BC, Miami) 11 games
2017- 2 (Syracuse, Miami) 9 games

(06-20-2012 03:09 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:00 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  Are there 4 teams in the XII that ND would want to play? Texas and Oklahoma for sure, but after that? WVU? And again, what does non-FB membership in the XII offer ND that they don't get in the BE? What does ND do with men's soccer and lacrosse? I have no doubt that the XII has offered, but what is the realistic possibility that they will accept?

1) Better TV deal for their non-FB sports.
2) Better football scheduling agreements.
3) Better name brands schools to play in other sports.
4) Who cares about soccer and lacrosse? They can play anywhere.

It's pretty much common sense if you think about it. I would've expected ACC instead of Big 12 but I'd imagine the ACC wasn't interested at all in a partial membership. ND solves a lot of "issues" for the Big 12, namely WVU being on an island and offsetting BYU FB only if that's the plan.

If this is true I'd fully expect Louisville to Big 12 smoke to appear VERY soon.

Why? The Big12 would still be a 10 team football league. Why add a 11th team?

Actually Louisville is a dead issue with the Big12. Not on the table.

(06-20-2012 04:00 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:57 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:50 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:48 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  Lol at the Big East if this happens.

I think the Big East would split if ND leaves too.

Do the majority of them just join the A10?

I think the basketball schools found a new conference, and raid the A10.

Butler
DePaul
Georgetown
Marquette
Providence
St. John's
St. Louis
Seton Hall
Villanova
Xavier

The trend is to larger conferences. I think they look at joining the A10.

The rules are set up to discourage new conferences being formed.

I would think the basketball schools would keep the name then invite whatever A-10 schools they want. The football schools will have to change names.

(06-20-2012 04:42 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 04:20 PM)BE Tex Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:44 PM)attackfrog Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:09 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:00 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  Are there 4 teams in the XII that ND would want to play? Texas and Oklahoma for sure, but after that? WVU? And again, what does non-FB membership in the XII offer ND that they don't get in the BE? What does ND do with men's soccer and lacrosse? I have no doubt that the XII has offered, but what is the realistic possibility that they will accept?

1) Better TV deal for their non-FB sports.
2) Better football scheduling agreements.
3) Better name brands schools to play in other sports.
4) Who cares about soccer and lacrosse? They can play anywhere.

It's pretty much common sense if you think about it. I would've expected ACC instead of Big 12 but I'd imagine the ACC wasn't interested at all in a partial membership. ND solves a lot of "issues" for the Big 12, namely WVU being on an island and offsetting BYU FB only if that's the plan.

If this is true I'd fully expect Louisville to Big 12 smoke to appear VERY soon.

All 4 of those answers are very weak. We dont have any idea how well an olympic sports only team would be paid in the Big 12. Id say most of the Big-12's TV value is in football. As for a football scheduling agreement---since when has Notre Dame needed that? Notre Dame can schedule anyone they want by just picking up a phone. Better name brands for other sports in the Big 12? Better than Georgetown? Better than St Johns? Better than UConn? When it comes to basketball some of the best "name" brands in the nation are in the Big East.

I tend to think Notre Dame is not going anywhere. They are not going to give up games in New York, Philly and Chicago to play in Stillwater and Norman.

I think this may have to do with Tier 3 rights and having ND start their own network like Texas. The ACC and Big 10 don't allow tier 3 right to schools. I guess the BE doesn't allow it also?

It has already been stated that ND determined a digital network was the way to go since they didn't have enough concentration of fans in any region to make a channel. All their football games are on NBC so there are no tier three football games either.

If this was all about money then ND would have joined the B10.

Do you still need to have Tier 3 rights for non-oly sports though, even for a digital network?
(The Big 10 will only take ND if it includes football.)

(06-20-2012 05:01 PM)BE Tex Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 04:42 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 04:20 PM)BE Tex Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:44 PM)attackfrog Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:09 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  1) Better TV deal for their non-FB sports.
2) Better football scheduling agreements.
3) Better name brands schools to play in other sports.
4) Who cares about soccer and lacrosse? They can play anywhere.

It's pretty much common sense if you think about it. I would've expected ACC instead of Big 12 but I'd imagine the ACC wasn't interested at all in a partial membership. ND solves a lot of "issues" for the Big 12, namely WVU being on an island and offsetting BYU FB only if that's the plan.

If this is true I'd fully expect Louisville to Big 12 smoke to appear VERY soon.

All 4 of those answers are very weak. We dont have any idea how well an olympic sports only team would be paid in the Big 12. Id say most of the Big-12's TV value is in football. As for a football scheduling agreement---since when has Notre Dame needed that? Notre Dame can schedule anyone they want by just picking up a phone. Better name brands for other sports in the Big 12? Better than Georgetown? Better than St Johns? Better than UConn? When it comes to basketball some of the best "name" brands in the nation are in the Big East.

I tend to think Notre Dame is not going anywhere. They are not going to give up games in New York, Philly and Chicago to play in Stillwater and Norman.

I think this may have to do with Tier 3 rights and having ND start their own network like Texas. The ACC and Big 10 don't allow tier 3 right to schools. I guess the BE doesn't allow it also?

It has already been stated that ND determined a digital network was the way to go since they didn't have enough concentration of fans in any region to make a channel. All their football games are on NBC so there are no tier three football games either.

If this was all about money then ND would have joined the B10.

Do you still need to have Tier 3 rights for non-oly sports though, even for a digital network?

The men's basketball are all sold to ESPN. The remaining sports can all be put online.

For me the biggest thing that this move would do, is not make a big boost for the Big 12 but it removes all discussion that the ACC could in the future land Notre Dame. It slams the door on that talking point. What does that do for the internal discussions in the ACC? That is what I am interested in hearing from others about.

It seems like a very calculated move that will affect the ACC without making a move that could be viewed as tortious interference. How would the new additions feel, especially Pitt? Certainly there had to be some anticipation in Pittsburgh that Notre Dame would someday land in the ACC so that rivalry could be made into an every year game.

(06-20-2012 04:00 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:57 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  I think the basketball schools found a new conference, and raid the A10.

Butler
DePaul
Georgetown
Marquette
Providence
St. John's
St. Louis
Seton Hall
Villanova
Xavier

The trend is to larger conferences. I think they look at joining the A10.

The rules are set up to discourage new conferences being formed.

Big East schools are not joining the A-10. The chain of command is the other way around. Furthermore, a clean Big East split is a different situation than forming a new conference, and the Catholic schools would instantly have automatic bids in pretty much every sport.

They wouldn't stop at 10, however, because a 5/5 set-up messes up scheduling in most sports. It would have to be 6/6. Dayton and Xavier are pretty much a package deal anyway. The final spot would probably be offered to Holy Cross for more New England exposure.

All of that being said, I doubt Notre Dame bolts for the Big 12 anyway, and this story was leaked from the office of Deloss Dodds through his mouthpiece Chip Brown to scare people during the current negotiations. What exactly Texas wants is the thing which is unclear.

(06-20-2012 05:10 PM)Lolly Popp Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 04:00 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:57 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  I think the basketball schools found a new conference, and raid the A10.

Butler
DePaul
Georgetown
Marquette
Providence
St. John's
St. Louis
Seton Hall
Villanova
Xavier

The trend is to larger conferences. I think they look at joining the A10.

The rules are set up to discourage new conferences being formed.

Big East schools are not joining the A-10. The chain of command is the other way around. Furthermore, a clean Big East split is a different situation than forming a new conference, and the Catholic schools would instantly have automatic bids in pretty much every sport.

They wouldn't stop at 10, however, because a 5/5 set-up messes up scheduling in most sports. It would have to be 6/6. Dayton and Xavier are pretty much a package deal anyway. The final spot would probably be offered to Holy Cross for more New England exposure.

All of that being said, I doubt Notre Dame bolts for the Big 12 anyway, and this story was leaked from the office of Deloss Dodds through his mouthpiece Chip Brown to scare people during the current negotiations. What exactly Texas wants is the thing which is unclear.

There is no provision for a conference to split. One or the other would have to form a new conference. It is hard to force schools to leave so it is usually that schools pick up and walk away instead.

The Mountain West split away from the WAC.

Did they truly split... or walk away and form a new conference?

Yes, the MWC formed a new conference when they split from the WAC. They didn't have autobids at first but they also had enough quality basketball programs it didn't really matter.

(06-20-2012 05:10 PM)Lolly Popp Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 04:00 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:57 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  I think the basketball schools found a new conference, and raid the A10.

Butler
DePaul
Georgetown
Marquette
Providence
St. John's
St. Louis
Seton Hall
Villanova
Xavier

The trend is to larger conferences. I think they look at joining the A10.

The rules are set up to discourage new conferences being formed.

Big East schools are not joining the A-10. The chain of command is the other way around. Furthermore, a clean Big East split is a different situation than forming a new conference, and the Catholic schools would instantly have automatic bids in pretty much every sport.

They wouldn't stop at 10, however, because a 5/5 set-up messes up scheduling in most sports. It would have to be 6/6. Dayton and Xavier are pretty much a package deal anyway. The final spot would probably be offered to Holy Cross for more New England exposure.

All of that being said, I doubt Notre Dame bolts for the Big 12 anyway, and this story was leaked from the office of Deloss Dodds through his mouthpiece Chip Brown to scare people during the current negotiations. What exactly Texas wants is the thing which is unclear.

Well Terry here said that he spoke with one of his sources and they said the same thing. I hardly think his source is Chip Brown. So its not just coming from Texas.

(06-20-2012 05:01 PM)BE Tex Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 04:42 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 04:20 PM)BE Tex Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:44 PM)attackfrog Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:09 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  1) Better TV deal for their non-FB sports.
2) Better football scheduling agreements.
3) Better name brands schools to play in other sports.
4) Who cares about soccer and lacrosse? They can play anywhere.

It's pretty much common sense if you think about it. I would've expected ACC instead of Big 12 but I'd imagine the ACC wasn't interested at all in a partial membership. ND solves a lot of "issues" for the Big 12, namely WVU being on an island and offsetting BYU FB only if that's the plan.

If this is true I'd fully expect Louisville to Big 12 smoke to appear VERY soon.

All 4 of those answers are very weak. We dont have any idea how well an olympic sports only team would be paid in the Big 12. Id say most of the Big-12's TV value is in football. As for a football scheduling agreement---since when has Notre Dame needed that? Notre Dame can schedule anyone they want by just picking up a phone. Better name brands for other sports in the Big 12? Better than Georgetown? Better than St Johns? Better than UConn? When it comes to basketball some of the best "name" brands in the nation are in the Big East.

I tend to think Notre Dame is not going anywhere. They are not going to give up games in New York, Philly and Chicago to play in Stillwater and Norman.

I think this may have to do with Tier 3 rights and having ND start their own network like Texas. The ACC and Big 10 don't allow tier 3 right to schools. I guess the BE doesn't allow it also?

It has already been stated that ND determined a digital network was the way to go since they didn't have enough concentration of fans in any region to make a channel. All their football games are on NBC so there are no tier three football games either.

If this was all about money then ND would have joined the B10.

Do you still need to have Tier 3 rights for non-oly sports though, even for a digital network?
(The Big 10 will only take ND if it includes football.)

(06-20-2012 05:03 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 05:01 PM)BE Tex Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 04:42 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 04:20 PM)BE Tex Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:44 PM)attackfrog Wrote:  All 4 of those answers are very weak. We dont have any idea how well an olympic sports only team would be paid in the Big 12. Id say most of the Big-12's TV value is in football. As for a football scheduling agreement---since when has Notre Dame needed that? Notre Dame can schedule anyone they want by just picking up a phone. Better name brands for other sports in the Big 12? Better than Georgetown? Better than St Johns? Better than UConn? When it comes to basketball some of the best "name" brands in the nation are in the Big East.

I tend to think Notre Dame is not going anywhere. They are not going to give up games in New York, Philly and Chicago to play in Stillwater and Norman.

I think this may have to do with Tier 3 rights and having ND start their own network like Texas. The ACC and Big 10 don't allow tier 3 right to schools. I guess the BE doesn't allow it also?

It has already been stated that ND determined a digital network was the way to go since they didn't have enough concentration of fans in any region to make a channel. All their football games are on NBC so there are no tier three football games either.

If this was all about money then ND would have joined the B10.

Do you still need to have Tier 3 rights for non-oly sports though, even for a digital network?

The men's basketball are all sold to ESPN. The remaining sports can all be put online.

OOC basketball and baseball games can be televised on an ND Network.

(06-20-2012 05:21 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Well Terry here said that he spoke with one of his sources and they said the same thing. I hardly think his source is Chip Brown. So its not just coming from Texas.

They most certainly did not say "the same thing." Terry confirmed the Big 12 made an offer. That's it.

Brown says ND is "more likely" to move its Olympic sports to the Big 12. Not that it will happen. And what does "more likely" really mean? For example, a 2% chance is more likely than a 1% chance.

I'm sure the ACC has a competing offer out to Notre Dame. I'm also sure that ND would prefer the ACC for its basketball program than the Big 12. There's about 3-4 times as many Catholics in ACC states as Big 12 states.

That's if Notre Dame feels compelled to move. Odds are they stay put.

And once again we wasted time on a false rumor.

https://twitter.com/ChiTribHamilton/stat...1234718721

#NotreDame‬ AD Jack Swarbrick on report of non-football sports to Big 12: "I have no idea what prompted that."

https://twitter.com/ChiTribHamilton/stat...3100213248

More ‪#NotreDame‬ AD Jack Swarbrick on Big 12 affiliation report: "It is not based on any discussion, any meeting we have done."

https://twitter.com/ChiTribHamilton/stat...4564705280

#NotreDame‬ AD Jack Swarbrick said school is in the "homestretch" of resolving "media relationship," presumably NBC deal.

This weakens the ACC. If Notre Dame commits to the Big 12 while retaining their independence, they cannot expand to 16. Ergo, they are stuck in their terrible television contract for many, many years. Swofford has done a good job as the ACC commissioner but his softness in the negotiating room is hurting that conference.

I don't expect FSU or Clemson to leave, but the ACC is probably going to be the weakest major conference for quite some time. They desperately need a "blue blood" to add power, notoriety, and stability.

Note: I recognize that this rumor may be inaccurate...just pontificating on the ramifications of such a move.

(06-20-2012 05:37 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 05:21 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Well Terry here said that he spoke with one of his sources and they said the same thing. I hardly think his source is Chip Brown. So its not just coming from Texas.

They most certainly did not say "the same thing." Terry confirmed the Big 12 made an offer. That's it.

Brown says ND is "more likely" to move its Olympic sports to the Big 12. Not that it will happen. And what does "more likely" really mean? For example, a 2% chance is more likely than a 1% chance.

I'm sure the ACC has a competing offer out to Notre Dame. I'm also sure that ND would prefer the ACC for its basketball program than the Big 12. There's about 3-4 times as many Catholics in ACC states as Big 12 states.

That's if Notre Dame feels compelled to move. Odds are they stay put.

Here's the problem with your statement. You say ND would prefer the ACC for hoops. Big 12 has in the last 6 years more hoops units than the ACC does. way more. next 6 years- Big 12 guaranteed to get about 9.4 million more in hoops money than the ACC is. In 2013 alone- Big 12 has 9 more hoops units than the ACC does. ACC in hoops is really 2 and then the other 10. Now with Syracuse and Pitt that'll change a bit. Big 12 had last year alone 6 tourney teams(loses Missouri, but picks up West Virginia). Hoops right now with both conferences- is not a slam dunk for the ACC by any means.