(06-20-2012 04:41 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 04:06 PM)LR Eagle Wrote:  Records last five years 2007-2012:

C-USA:
Tulsa - 44-22 (.667)
USM - 41-25 (.621)
ECU - 37-29 (.560)
No other teams with a winning record.

Sun Belt:
Troy - 36-27 (.571)
No other teams with a winning record.

Head to head record:
C-USA - 14
Sun Belt - 6

The bottom of both conferences suck. The move of UNT and FIU is a wash, FIU has been decent the past two years but UNT has been terrible. As far as other adds, both conferences added some FCS and start up teams that will suck for quite awhile. C-USA's addition of La Tech helps if they can hold onto Dykes and continue to improve.

La.Tech is 30-32 the last five years and 13-12 under Dykes.

If that is relevant then you have to consider that Arkansas State is 29-32 in that same span, 14-11 the past two years and has Gus Malzahn as head coach next year.

Likewise if Tech's potential is relevant the Louisiana 27-34 but 12-13 the last two (only the 9-4 under Hudspeth) are relevant to the discussion as well.

Might want to also consider that WKU went 2-22 the final two years of Elson but 9-15 under Taggert who led them to 7-5 last year.

Meanwhile ECU has an overall winning record for the period but consecutive losing seasons under McNeill. Southern Miss has hired a guy with two prior stints as a lower division coach and his best record in 4 years was 6-6 and at The Citadel his winning percentage was .00749 better than the guy who got fired before him.

I'm not sure what bearing last year's performance by a few Sun Belt teams has on a discussion on either long term performance or the effect the new additions will have C-USA but whatever.

USM, Tulsa, and ECU have performed over a period of time longer than one year. No one in the Sun Belt has except Troy.

Call me when ULL, WKU, and Ark State actually get their records above .500 over any meaningful stretch of time.

(06-21-2012 10:11 AM)LR Eagle Wrote:  USM, Tulsa, and ECU have performed over a period of time longer than one year. No one in the Sun Belt has except Troy.

And what's funny is Troy is bottom of the list of expansion candidates. So what does that tell you of C-USA's leadership? It tells me that quality is not as important as perceived market size.

I want no part of Conference USA, their leadership seems to be foolish.

(06-21-2012 10:30 AM)Burn the Horse Wrote:  

(06-21-2012 10:11 AM)LR Eagle Wrote:  USM, Tulsa, and ECU have performed over a period of time longer than one year. No one in the Sun Belt has except Troy.

And what's funny is Troy is bottom of the list of expansion candidates. So what does that tell you of C-USA's leadership? It tells me that quality is not as important as perceived market size.

I want no part of Conference USA, their leadership seems to be foolish.

Well lets be intellectually consistent here you guys added Georgia State to your league for the exact same reason we added the schools we added. You could have added teams like App State or Georgia Southern who have much better quality products on the field and in App's case much better fan support, but instead you went with the large market start up.

I won't argue with you on that point b0ndsj0ns. I was in favor of adding App State and Southern. I am happy we got in to the State of Georgia though, that was something we really needed to do.

Still, that does not change my point in the previous post that C-USA is not interested in Troy, a proven winner at the FBS level. That is just foolish.

(06-21-2012 10:30 AM)Burn the Horse Wrote:  

(06-21-2012 10:11 AM)LR Eagle Wrote:  USM, Tulsa, and ECU have performed over a period of time longer than one year. No one in the Sun Belt has except Troy.

And what's funny is Troy is bottom of the list of expansion candidates. So what does that tell you of C-USA's leadership? It tells me that quality is not as important as perceived market size.

I want no part of Conference USA, their leadership seems to be foolish.

This....But the Big East does the same.

If I were CUSA I would have went with 2 other schools before I went with FIU....And I would have went with 3-4 schools teams before I went with NT. But I guess since they lost the FLA market and a couple schools out of Texas they needed a void to fill there. They already have a presence in Bama, if you want to call it that.

(06-21-2012 11:23 AM)Burn the Horse Wrote:  I won't argue with you on that point b0ndsj0ns. I was in favor of adding App State and Southern. I am happy we got in to the State of Georgia though, that was something we really needed to do.

Still, that does not change my point in the previous post that C-USA is not interested in Troy, a proven winner at the FBS level. That is just foolish.

While I disagreed with the market aspect of our expansion there was one part of it I did agree with. We tried to add schools that closed geography gaps and added potential rivals down the road. ODU and Charlotte make a nice 4 team grouping in the mid-atlantic. La Tech fits nicely right in the middle of the western division. UNT and UTSA allow UTEP to continue to be able to play games in the 4 largest cities in Texas where they have large alumni bases. The only one who really doesn't fit this mold is FIU, and ideally just from a geography perspective if we had picked MTSU over them C-USA would have gotten exponentially more regional. However FIU keeps C-USA in Florida which matters to the schools in the east, especially Marshall who recruits Florida harder than all of us. There are things I would have preferred to go differently. I'd have rather had App over Charlotte, MTSU over FIU, and probably Ark State over UTSA, but I also understand why each of those decisions were made.

(06-20-2012 11:09 AM)mbelcher987 Wrote:  

(06-18-2012 05:45 PM)Atlanta Trojan Wrote:  The Bottom of CUSA is weaker than the Bottom of SBC. But the top of CUSA is a little stronger but not by much.

so this is why Troy vs. UAB is always even... keep dreaming. top SBC is slightly better than the bottom of CUSA

The top of the Sun Belt is slightly better than the bottom of CUSA? We're the ones that are dreaming?

Last season 2-10 Middle Tennessee beat 2-10 Memphis by a touchdown.

Last season 3-9 Troy AND 1-11 FAU beat 3-9 UAB.

Oh and the Sun Belt champs 10-3 Arkansas State beat the brakes off 2-10 Memphis to the tune of 47-3(which was a larger margin than any of their losses to C-USA teams, including Southern Miss)

So would you mind explaining how you've come to the conclusion that the overlap in conference is our best teams are only slightly better than your worst teams?

(06-21-2012 12:39 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 11:09 AM)mbelcher987 Wrote:  

(06-18-2012 05:45 PM)Atlanta Trojan Wrote:  The Bottom of CUSA is weaker than the Bottom of SBC. But the top of CUSA is a little stronger but not by much.

so this is why Troy vs. UAB is always even... keep dreaming. top SBC is slightly better than the bottom of CUSA

The top of the Sun Belt is slightly better than the bottom of CUSA? We're the ones that are dreaming?

Last season 2-10 Middle Tennessee beat 2-10 Memphis by a touchdown.

Last season 3-9 Troy AND 1-11 FAU beat 3-9 UAB.

Oh and the Sun Belt champs 10-3 Arkansas State beat the brakes off 2-10 Memphis to the tune of 47-3(which was a larger margin than any of their losses to C-USA teams, including Southern Miss)

So would you mind explaining how you've come to the conclusion that the overlap in conference is our best teams are only slightly better than your worst teams?

Dont pester the UAB people....Do you see how delusional their fan base is...We deal with this EVERY year on GoTroyTrojans.com....I grow tired of even wasting my breath over it.

I think mbelcher987 may be retarded...or drunk, not sure which.

(06-21-2012 12:51 PM)Atlanta Trojan Wrote:  Dont pester the UAB people....Do you see how delusional their fan base is...We deal with this EVERY year on GoTroyTrojans.com....I grow tired of even wasting my breath over it.

it is okay, we think the same thing about your Trojan fans too. I'm just bored. It is summer, and there is nothing going on in sports.

When your school gets more than 8000 (7194 on the main campus) students then you might be an expansion candidate. Your basketball is a joke. Your academics aren't top notch either. CUSA officials went to Troy, Alabama in 2005 spent the day there and the words lets expand with The University of Troy have not been said since. If football was the only thing that mattered you guys would be in, but it isn't all that matters in a conference.

(06-21-2012 11:37 AM)Atlanta Trojan Wrote:  

(06-21-2012 10:30 AM)Burn the Horse Wrote:  

(06-21-2012 10:11 AM)LR Eagle Wrote:  USM, Tulsa, and ECU have performed over a period of time longer than one year. No one in the Sun Belt has except Troy.

And what's funny is Troy is bottom of the list of expansion candidates. So what does that tell you of C-USA's leadership? It tells me that quality is not as important as perceived market size.

I want no part of Conference USA, their leadership seems to be foolish.

This....But the Big East does the same.

If I were CUSA I would have went with 2 other schools before I went with FIU....And I would have went with 3-4 schools teams before I went with NT. But I guess since they lost the FLA market and a couple schools out of Texas they needed a void to fill there. They already have a presence in Bama, if you want to call it that.

What three or four schools would you have added to C-USA ahead of UNT?

mbelcher is just sore that his football program, despite the dreams and desires of their 10 fans, is the laughing stock of FBS athletics (hell, they don't even have their own BOT). They have traditioanlly had good basketball and I won't deny they are a fine academic institution...but this is a sports board, and in the South, particularly in Alabama, football is king. people laugh at UAB football, that's just the way it is.

We still managed to beat them in the worst season in Troy football history.

the last time UAB beat Troy the win was clouded with controversy. Of course their fans refuse to admit that, but they'll take anything they can get.

For health of a program: 1) support; 2) wins; 3) exposure; 4) ncaa issues/legal issues/academic issues; and, 5) a path to improve and progress in the four categories previous. UAB has some serious issues. Look, Im probably older than you. I remember when UAB drew 20,000 for basketball games with USA year in and year out (and USA drew 10,000 for UAB) so Im a little shocked at how far things dropped off that UAB, who could do no wrong as a "Boise State" of college basketball has struggled so much with football.

Neil "Bear" Calloway may have been as great as Mike "Bear" DuBose/Shula but UAB's problems didnt start with one bad coaching choice. UAB is currently a cautionary tale to Charlotte and ODU that success in mens basketball does not translate into success and support in football. USA, UTSA, GaSt, and TxST havent been world beaters consistently in basketball or support so there isnt that expectation built in. UAB needs a lot more than a new football coach and a stadium.

I strongly believe that there's a higher chance of stagnation and being a still born program the higher the new program starts in FBS for a number of reasons. First, if you dont attract support and interest at a lower level of FBS initially even though you're in the (essentially) Big East (or CUSA in the 1990s), what happens to even that level of support when the competition level drops to a lower level (conferences can get worse and less interesting over time)? Second, once your program is dead and moribund to your students/market, its hard for people to give it another look once they've decided its not up to community sport standards or worth their time.

(06-21-2012 01:22 AM)mbelcher987 Wrote:  "... You're a USA fan, your primary team has yet to even play a down against a D1 opponent. ..."

USA went on the road last year and gave NC State & Kent State about all they could handle... @ NC State, game in doubt until (FORMALLY disciplined afterward-- FACT) ACC refs intentionally handed the "W" to NCST in the 3rd and the game @ Kent State came down to fizzling out on the last play of the game -- a potential game tying TD with zero secs on the clock deep in Kent's red zone. You did know that, right?

(06-21-2012 03:26 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(06-21-2012 11:37 AM)Atlanta Trojan Wrote:  

(06-21-2012 10:30 AM)Burn the Horse Wrote:  

(06-21-2012 10:11 AM)LR Eagle Wrote:  USM, Tulsa, and ECU have performed over a period of time longer than one year. No one in the Sun Belt has except Troy.

And what's funny is Troy is bottom of the list of expansion candidates. So what does that tell you of C-USA's leadership? It tells me that quality is not as important as perceived market size.

I want no part of Conference USA, their leadership seems to be foolish.

This....But the Big East does the same.

If I were CUSA I would have went with 2 other schools before I went with FIU....And I would have went with 3-4 schools teams before I went with NT. But I guess since they lost the FLA market and a couple schools out of Texas they needed a void to fill there. They already have a presence in Bama, if you want to call it that.

What three or four schools would you have added to C-USA ahead of UNT?

MTSU, ASU, TROY and maybe FAU

This is based on Quality not Population of City... Only say FAU because they have had recent success and bowl wins and are in the Florida hot bed for recruiting...CUSA already has 3 other Texas schools. Of course NT fans are going to dog me for this but this is MY opinion. Take it or leave it.

(06-21-2012 04:26 PM)Burn the Horse Wrote:  mbelcher is just sore that his football program, despite the dreams and desires of their 10 fans, is the laughing stock of FBS athletics (hell, they don't even have their own BOT). They have traditioanlly had good basketball and I won't deny they are a fine academic institution...but this is a sports board, and in the South, particularly in Alabama, football is king. people laugh at UAB football, that's just the way it is.

We still managed to beat them in the worst season in Troy football history.

the last time UAB beat Troy the win was clouded with controversy. Of course their fans refuse to admit that, but they'll take anything they can get.

Lets be real BTH....UAB basketball is nothing to jump up and down about anymore either. They have had a couple good runs. How many CUSA Tournaments have they won? 0

(06-21-2012 10:11 AM)LR Eagle Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 04:41 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 04:06 PM)LR Eagle Wrote:  Records last five years 2007-2012:

C-USA:
Tulsa - 44-22 (.667)
USM - 41-25 (.621)
ECU - 37-29 (.560)
No other teams with a winning record.

Sun Belt:
Troy - 36-27 (.571)
No other teams with a winning record.

Head to head record:
C-USA - 14
Sun Belt - 6

The bottom of both conferences suck. The move of UNT and FIU is a wash, FIU has been decent the past two years but UNT has been terrible. As far as other adds, both conferences added some FCS and start up teams that will suck for quite awhile. C-USA's addition of La Tech helps if they can hold onto Dykes and continue to improve.

La.Tech is 30-32 the last five years and 13-12 under Dykes.

If that is relevant then you have to consider that Arkansas State is 29-32 in that same span, 14-11 the past two years and has Gus Malzahn as head coach next year.

Likewise if Tech's potential is relevant the Louisiana 27-34 but 12-13 the last two (only the 9-4 under Hudspeth) are relevant to the discussion as well.

Might want to also consider that WKU went 2-22 the final two years of Elson but 9-15 under Taggert who led them to 7-5 last year.

Meanwhile ECU has an overall winning record for the period but consecutive losing seasons under McNeill. Southern Miss has hired a guy with two prior stints as a lower division coach and his best record in 4 years was 6-6 and at The Citadel his winning percentage was .00749 better than the guy who got fired before him.

I'm not sure what bearing last year's performance by a few Sun Belt teams has on a discussion on either long term performance or the effect the new additions will have C-USA but whatever.

USM, Tulsa, and ECU have performed over a period of time longer than one year. No one in the Sun Belt has except Troy.

Call me when ULL, WKU, and Ark State actually get their records above .500 over any meaningful stretch of time.

sometimes i think people forget that we are the youngest FBS conference and have came close to the success of all other non-aq conferences in about a third of the time. our conference as itself is only 12 years old? and have the projected membership is less that 6 years in FBS. if we continue on our current line then we will be the conference to beat in non-aq in 6 years. book it.

Here, here stAtecamera13!

(06-21-2012 07:21 PM)airtroop Wrote:  

(06-21-2012 01:22 AM)mbelcher987 Wrote:  "... You're a USA fan, your primary team has yet to even play a down against a D1 opponent. ..."

USA went on the road last year and gave NC State & Kent State about all they could handle... @ NC State, game in doubt until (formerly disciplined afterward-- FACT) ACC refs intentionally handed the "W" to NCST in the 3rd and the game @ Kent State came down to fizzling out on the last play of the game -- a potential game tying TD with zero secs on the clock deep in Kent's red zone. You did know that, right?

Besteda, I believe, slipped that first tackle and I thought he was heading to the endzone. We had so much momentum against Kent State, I don't think they stood a chance if it went to OT.

Too bad.
Kent State ended up being an ok MAC school last year.
4-4 in their conference.

(06-21-2012 02:26 PM)mbelcher987 Wrote:  

(06-21-2012 12:51 PM)Atlanta Trojan Wrote:  Dont pester the UAB people....Do you see how delusional their fan base is...We deal with this EVERY year on GoTroyTrojans.com....I grow tired of even wasting my breath over it.

it is okay, we think the same thing about your Trojan fans too. I'm just bored. It is summer, and there is nothing going on in sports.

When your school gets more than 8000 (7194 on the main campus) students then you might be an expansion candidate. Your basketball is a joke. Your academics aren't top notch either. CUSA officials went to Troy, Alabama in 2005 spent the day there and the words lets expand with The University of Troy have not been said since. If football was the only thing that mattered you guys would be in, but it isn't all that matters in a conference.

I love how this is the post you respond to. No response to my request to defend your statement about the overlap in conferences?