(06-06-2012 10:17 AM)HILTOPWKU Wrote:  

(06-06-2012 10:05 AM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(06-05-2012 03:27 PM)HILTOPWKU Wrote:  

(06-05-2012 01:13 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(06-05-2012 10:27 AM)HILTOPWKU Wrote:  I beg to differ. We will win the Belt this year. 8th----HA HA HA

You find a quarterback none of us know about?

We still have the one that won 7 out of our last 8 games.
Losing only to the #1 team in the nation.
How did your starting QB do?

How did our quarterback do? Well he threw for almost 400 more yards and 8 more touchdowns in two less starts. He also threw the same number of interceptions as Jakes on almost 100 more attempts. He also had a better completion percentage. Kilgore threw two less touchdowns in 2011 than Jakes did in 2010 and 2011 combined.

Kawaun Jakes is not a good enough quarterback to lead a Rainey-less WKU team to a conference championship.

Bottom line. Wins & losses.
How many games did Kilgore win?

Okay...let's get a few things straight here.

Even if Kilgore was not a better quarterback than Jakes(he is) it wouldn't matter. I'm not the one claiming my team is going to win a championship this year. If Kilgore were the worst quarterback in the conference, it wouldn't matter. What does the quality of MT's quarterback have to do with the discussion of whether or not Jakes is good enough to lead a Rainey-less WKU to a championship? One has nothing to do with the other.

I make a statement that I don't think Jakes is good enough to lead a Rainey-less WKU team to a championship and you get all butthurt and start asking about my quarterback. Again, what does Kilgore's ability or win-loss record have to do with whether or not Jakes is a championship quarterback?

Now as to your "bottom line wins and losses" rhetoric...this is the kind of thinking that insane Tebow fans use. Tebow went what like 8-5 last season including a playoff win. All his supporters can go on about is that he won games, didn't matter that he was completing less than 50% of his passes, he won games. If wins and losses were all that mattered and he was truly the one responsible for those wins, Denver wouldn't have been doing everything they could to replace him, and despite what some people say about them only running him out of town because Peyton Manning had become available, there were reports that the Broncos were going to attempt to bring in Matt Hassleback if they didn't land Manning. So the team he led to all those victories didn't want him and when it became clear that they'd be trading him, of the 20 or so teams in the league that don't have a franchise quarterback, only three teams even sniffed around Tebow. Miami who hasn't had a solid starter since Marino, Jacksonville who's motivation was primarily trying to sell tickets to keep from having to move, and the Jets who are more fascinated with making headlines than making smart personnel moves.

The 49ers went 13-3 last year and potentially missed out on the Super Bowl due to a bad special teams play. Does that mean Alex Smith is a better quarterback than Eli Manning, Matt Stafford, Matt Ryan, Phillip Rivers, Tony Romo, Michael Vick etc?

WKU won all those games last year on the back of Rainey and the defense. There was not a quarterback in the league, outside of perhaps Graham Wilbert, who couldn't have stepped in at WKU and done as well or better than Jakes.

Here are the reasons WKU fans feel like we are going to win the Sunbelt this year:
WKU has had the #1 or #2 recruiting class the last 4 years. That translates to wins on the field.

WKU has most of its team returning that nearly ran the table in the conference last year.

WKU has a four year starting QB.

WKU did lose Rainey, but we have a trio of backs that will put up the same amount of rushing yardage because that is how our system works. We use the original West Coast Offense that is predicated on rushing the ball, winning time of possession, nearly 38 min a game last year, and winning the battle in the trenches.

WKU returns nearly the entire offensive line minus one starter.

WKU returns one of the top overall defenses in the Sunbelt.

Last year was not a fluke and for those of you that are leaning on that Idea I can guarantee you that the coaching staffs at the other Sunbelt Schools are not that dumb. They know that WKU is one of the teams to beat. Our coaching staff is positioning WKU to be the first Sunbelt team in the top 25, which is possible going 3 and 1 in the preconference schedule and a good showing at Alabama.

(06-07-2012 07:07 AM)GreekTopper Wrote:  WKU has a four year starting QB.

Any list of strengths that includes Kawaun Jakes is invalid.

(06-07-2012 07:16 AM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(06-07-2012 07:07 AM)GreekTopper Wrote:  WKU has a four year starting QB.

Any list of strengths that includes Kawaun Jakes is invalid.

juvenile response by you. and surprising.

the rest of the things he listed are very valid.

if one invalid (determined by you) item invalidates the whole post then your response invalidates everything you say from here on out....lol.

to say a 4 year starter doesn't help....even an average at best one is hyperbole. experience does matter. i'm not saying he'll be great. but you can't callously dismiss 3 years of starting.

(06-07-2012 08:15 AM)dahbeed Wrote:  

(06-07-2012 07:16 AM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(06-07-2012 07:07 AM)GreekTopper Wrote:  WKU has a four year starting QB.

Any list of strengths that includes Kawaun Jakes is invalid.

juvenile response by you. and surprising.

the rest of the things he listed are very valid.

if one invalid (determined by you) item invalidates the whole post then your response invalidates everything you say from here on out....lol.

to say a 4 year starter doesn't help....even an average at best one is hyperbole. experience does matter. i'm not saying he'll be great. but you can't callously dismiss 3 years of starting.

disclaimer***

me saying your response was juvenile in no way spares my juvenile antics and innapropriate remarks on here.....see me in the mtsu txfer thread. we're talking about YOU. lol.

(06-07-2012 07:07 AM)GreekTopper Wrote:  Here are the reasons WKU fans feel like we are going to win the Sunbelt this year:
WKU has had the #1 or #2 recruiting class the last 4 years. That translates to wins on the field.

WKU has most of its team returning that nearly ran the table in the conference last year.

WKU has a four year starting QB.

WKU did lose Rainey, but we have a trio of backs that will put up the same amount of rushing yardage because that is how our system works. We use the original West Coast Offense that is predicated on rushing the ball, winning time of possession, nearly 38 min a game last year, and winning the battle in the trenches.

WKU returns nearly the entire offensive line minus one starter.

WKU returns one of the top overall defenses in the Sunbelt.

Last year was not a fluke and for those of you that are leaning on that Idea I can guarantee you that the coaching staffs at the other Sunbelt Schools are not that dumb. They know that WKU is one of the teams to beat. Our coaching staff is positioning WKU to be the first Sunbelt team in the top 25, which is possible going 3 and 1 in the preconference schedule and a good showing at Alabama.

Finally a post about a fans own team that doesn't wreak of "We will win because we are Bad Ass!"

Even though I don't believe Jakes is a good quarterback, being a 3rd or 4th year starter will make a difference.

Having the O-Line back is probably the most important thing WKU has going for it. If you were replacing 1 or 2 more guys on the OL then I would say WKU doesn't have a shot. A good and experienced OL can make a team even with an average QB and first year RB's.

I'm sorry, but there's a difference between being a four year starter on account of your own superior talent and being a four year starter based on a dearth of talent at the position.

From pre-snap read:

" Kawaun Jakes is now a senior. To me, it seems only yesterday that Jakes was entrenched in a four-way position battle for the starting nod – it was 2009, and he won that battle, starting nine games as a freshman and every game but one over the two years since. So he’s now a senior, and an experienced senior at that, meaning it’s time for Jakes to take on a substantially larger role in this offense.

It’s also time for Jakes to play a better brand of football. He’s been a caretaker as the Hilltoppers’ starter, handing the ball off to Rainey more than 50 percent of the time and simply managing Taggart’s offense as the team’s secondary option – and, to be honest, Jakes hasn’t done a very good job even in a secondary role. After protecting the football well in 2010, tossing 6 picks in 291 attempts, Jakes doubled his turnover total last fall despite making 15 fewer attempts. Without Rainey there to carry the offense on his back, W.K.U. absolutely needs more out of the quarterback position.

And regardless of his starting experience – though that’s a major factor behind his candidacy – the coaching staff might have no choice but to go towards another option if Jakes proves unable to carry the load. Taggart will have other options. One is U.C.F. transfer DeMarcus Smith, though he’s behind the eight ball in terms of his grasp of the system. A second is sophomore Brandon Doughty, though he needs to recover from the A.C.L. injury that ended his rookie season in September. A third is redshirt freshman James Mauro, a Texas product who remains unpolished but looks the part. Jakes has the edge heading into September. Whether he remains the Hilltoppers’ starter depends on his play."

Kawaun Jakes is a poor man's Reggie Ball.

(06-07-2012 08:15 AM)dahbeed Wrote:  

(06-07-2012 07:16 AM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(06-07-2012 07:07 AM)GreekTopper Wrote:  WKU has a four year starting QB.

Any list of strengths that includes Kawaun Jakes is invalid.

juvenile response by you. and surprising.

the rest of the things he listed are very valid.

if one invalid (determined by you) item invalidates the whole post then your response invalidates everything you say from here on out....lol.

to say a 4 year starter doesn't help....even an average at best one is hyperbole. experience does matter. i'm not saying he'll be great. but you can't callously dismiss 3 years of starting.

You'll have to excuse me, I've really been drinking the Jakes haterade this morning, so that's been the brunt of my focus, but I can move on to the rest of his "very valid" reasons if you like.

(06-07-2012 07:07 AM)GreekTopper Wrote:  WKU has had the #1 or #2 recruiting class the last 4 years. That translates to wins on the field.

I wouldn't consider the recruiting classes to be a "very valid" reason. If top recruiting classes directly correlated to wins on the field, the head recruiter would be the most important man on a staff. I'm not saying recruiting isn't important, it is very important, but having the top classes in a conference, especially in a conference where the majority of the classes are in the 80-110 range nationally, just doesn't add up to all that much. A lot of the kids recruited to the Sun Belt have little or no information on them and the difference between the 90th class and the 105th class is nominal, once you get outside the top 25 or so classes, the difference in 10-15 spots in rankings gets smaller and smaller. Furthermore, the whole "#1 or #2 class the last four years" is really open to interpretation, your 2010 class that Rivals had at #89 and tops in the Belt, Scout had at #119 and last in the Sun Belt, in 2012 Rivals had WKU at #77 and second in the conference and Scout had you #119 and last in the conference. which just further proves how imprecise ranking the bottom third of FBS classes is.

Championships are not won on signing day, not by a long shot.

(06-07-2012 07:07 AM)GreekTopper Wrote:  WKU has most of its team returning that nearly ran the table in the conference last year.

quasi-valid.

You aren't bringing back your biggest offensive weapon and possibly biggest strength overall from 2011, you are bringing back your biggest weakness from 2011. Furthermore, the strength that is not returning, took a lot of pressure of the weakness that is returning. The defense and offensive line returning help a lot, but let's not just glaze over the fact that you lost the majority of your offense from the team that nearly ran the table in conference last year.

(06-07-2012 07:07 AM)GreekTopper Wrote:  WKU did lose Rainey, but we have a trio of backs that will put up the same amount of rushing yardage because that is how our system works. We use the original West Coast Offense that is predicated on rushing the ball, winning time of possession, nearly 38 min a game last year, and winning the battle in the trenches.

Speculative. Perhaps your trio of backs do put up as much yardage, but do they manage the same ypc? Do any of them individually or collectively have the heart and drive that Rainey did? Did you just call one of your all time greats a product of a system?

(06-07-2012 07:07 AM)GreekTopper Wrote:  WKU returns nearly the entire offensive line minus one starter

Valid, but let's not downplay the fact that Jeffries had 43 consecutive starts, which is more than three of the returning four starters have combined.

(06-07-2012 07:07 AM)GreekTopper Wrote:  WKU returns one of the top overall defenses in the Sunbelt.

"Very valid."

(06-07-2012 07:07 AM)GreekTopper Wrote:  Last year was not a fluke and for those of you that are leaning on that Idea I can guarantee you that the coaching staffs at the other Sunbelt Schools are not that dumb. They know that WKU is one of the teams to beat. Our coaching staff is positioning WKU to be the first Sunbelt team in the top 25, which is possible going 3 and 1 in the preconference schedule and a good showing at Alabama.

Extremely speculative. Good luck on that 3-1 OOC slate, Kentucky and Southern Miss are not exactly world beaters, but neither one of them are going to lie down. I think a 2-2 OOC performance would be a victory.

You aren't going 11-1, you aren't going 10-2, you aren't getting into the top 25.

all i wanna know is if jakes has a good year and western has a good year are you gonna be here and eat that sh!t sammich or are you gonna run into a saddam hussein hidey hole like 'the borracho' did after proclaiming bobby rainey wasn't a d1 running back?

trust me....nobody can hate on jakes like western fans. you're just looking at numbers. i've had to watch him for 3 years.

i know it's a question mark and i know jeffries will be a loss. but jeffries was a local kid and he got a lot of hatin' for his mandatory 2-3 illegal motion penalties per game.

i make no predictions for this year. i don't bet on 18-23 year old kids as i have a 25 year old son and a 19 year old son. they're great kids but god almighty they can be maddening with inconsistency at times. college athletes are no different.

(06-07-2012 02:09 PM)dahbeed Wrote:  all i wanna know is if jakes has a good year and western has a good year are you gonna be here and eat that sh!t sammich or are you gonna run into a saddam hussein hidey hole like 'the borracho' did after proclaiming bobby rainey wasn't a d1 running back?

trust me....nobody can hate on jakes like western fans. you're just looking at numbers. i've had to watch him for 3 years.

i know it's a question mark and i know jeffries will be a loss. but jeffries was a local kid and he got a lot of hatin' for his mandatory 2-3 illegal motion penalties per game.

i make no predictions for this year. i don't bet on 18-23 year old kids as i have a 25 year old son and a 19 year old son. they're great kids but god almighty they can be maddening with inconsistency at times. college athletes are no different.

I think the WKU returning defense and offensive system should be good enough for you guys to be in the mix for a bowl again, but I don't see much more than that.

Beed, I'm not going anywhere, if Jakes proves me wrong, kudos to him and I'll be here eating crow. Not sure I expect the same from some of the more myopic Western fans who have been lapping up the kool-aid and predicting a championship.