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If he reunites with his coach at Phoebus and helps shore up the secondary, then I call BS on the grades issue. It appears that he is moving to the football team and allowing us to upgrade our backcourt at the same time.

Don't read too much into Blaine's quotes in the paper. I'm sure no one on here has his access to his actual grades.

How can you not read into Blaine's quotes in the paper? He said Key was kicked off the team because he wasn't cutting it academically or socially. How else can that be interpreted? That key woke up one morning and decided he wanted to play football, instead?

If Key is moving to the football program, this is a major, major screw up by the university. To publicly say that he isn't doing well enough in school or socially (whatever that means), then just put a different uniform on him would be a colossal flub. What would it say about our football program that a player who is dismissed from the basketball team for failing to "uphold the standards" of performance in school and society would be welcomed to the football team with open arms? How does Bobby Wilder explain that? How does Blaine Taylor? What happens when schools we are recruiting against tell prospects, "Don't play basketball at ODU, they make up excuses to kick you off the team if they need a scholarship," or, "Don't play football at ODU, they aren't selective and will take anyone, including kids who get kicked off of other teams at the very same school"?

I can't see Key playing football at ODU, at least this year. Maybe he takes a semester to get himself in order and joins the football team next season. But if the plan is for him to simply switch sports, the athletic department, including Blaine Taylor, should be thrown up against the wall for publicly hanging Key out to try by calling him out for his off the court failings.

I would LOVE to be wrong and would jump for joy if Key were playing football for us this year, but I would be very surprised given the circumstances, and very disappointed in the school for what has been said to the press. At best I see him sitting out a year, but most likely he will be playing somewhere else.

He does this every year. Have you followed Hicks, Mitchell or Thompson. Blaine kills them in the paper and moves on. They never get out their side of the story. Blaine isn't the pope, maybe Key's point of view is different?

I disagree because you have a major burr in your saddle where BT is concerned and do not seem to be objective where he is concerned. Based on your numerous posts the man can do nothing right in your opinion except quit. I also believe you are one of the most negative posters on any of these sites. That is my opinion based posts you have placed on MN, CAA and now this one.

Now as for why I do not see this as BT's fault is based on the following;
1 - Coaches do not admit students to a university. Admissions does and I am sure all four of those kids high school transcripts were approved.
2 - The kids did not meet the university's or team's academic standards, BT lets them go or suspends them. This has been done to make the impression that school is priority one. He takes the proper measures and gets the blame. He lets them slide and he would get the blame. It can't cut both ways.
3 - Bazemore may have indeed kept this a secret. The kid had not been in trouble before and our program does not have a history of it, so I am not sure the staff is scouring court records looking for our guys. Decker could not comment due to client/attorney confidentiality. If you heard BT following that incident you could tell he was shaken and taken by surprise.
4 - Of the player you named only three left the program without completing their eligibility or graduating or both. Hicks, Key and Mitchell were all dismissed for academic (social) reasons. Bazemore completed his elegibility and graduated.

thanks for listening.

ODUR8R, don't you think if BT was wrong about their academics it would get out. Since those kids have nothing to lose by talking after they are dismissed from the team their silence speaks volumes. In this day and age of law suits I am not sure coaches or athletics personnel are going to make comments like these without evidence and justification.

Razor, common man. How would you ensure that these type of events don't happen on occasion? These are 18 - 21 year old kids they are dealing with that sometimes make dumb decisions or don't take their responsibilities as seriously as they could.

None of these got kicked out for grades. If your hrades are crap, you get probation and sit a semester like Ross. For whatever reason, Taylor always had it out for Key and didnt see him worthy of sitting out a semester and righting the ship. The fact that Delancey was seeing the court last year at all, much mor ggetting 35 minutes per game, tells you there was obviously some kind of personality conflict between Taylor and Key. There is some reason Key isnt getting the opportunity to get his grades up, if they are in fact below eligibility. It sure isnt talent or court play. None of us know the reason or who to truly blame. This isnt a case like Thompson, Mitchell, or Hicks that were never going to see the court anyway, making the decision easy.

(06-01-2012 02:58 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  For all of you Anton- bashers out there, have you ever considered what our APR would be without him?

We have lost Hicks, Mitchell, Ross (for a semester), and now Key due to academic issues. Wouldn't it be ironic that the reason ODU gets to play in the post-season this year may rest squarely on the shoulders of Anton's grades?

That's not exactly how it works. Anton getting a 3.9 GPA and Player X getting a 2.1 both count the same. You simply have to be eligible to get one point, and stay in school to get another.

ODU would have had to be horrifically bad last year to not be eligible.

Starting in 2012-13, the NCAA changed the APR rules. In 12-13, you have to have a 900 average over 4 years. The last 3 seasons were 952, 947, and 961. That means, ODU would have to fall all the way to 740 for the most recent year to get in trouble. Which is something no ODU team in any sport has even come close to.

Also, even though Key apparently had academic issues, it hasn't been said it was enough to make him ineligible. If he transfers to another school and is eligible, ODU won't take a hit. (Adjustments: "Another is for student-athletes who transfer to another school while meeting minimum academic requirements.")

Also, Ross wasn't ineligible for the entire year, so I don't think we take a hit from him either.

From Wiki: Each student-athlete receiving athletically related financial aid earns one retention point for staying in school and one eligibility point for being academically eligible.

Since he played the second half, he was eligible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_Progress_Rate

http://web1.ncaa.org/maps/aprRelease.jsp

I'm not bashing Blaine Taylor for this. I'm not saying fire Blaine Taylor or that anything needs to happen other than that he needs to do a better job keeping some of these guys in line.

If that includes dismissing guys for grades than so be it, but quite frankly, I'd prefer we not have to deal with this type of stuff to begin with.

Is it a problem right now? Yes, but not a huge one.

If, however, we lost another player or two to grades than yeah, when we have to start sitting out NCAA tourny's like UNCW, then yes, something will need to be done.

Having a player or two leave or transfer is fairly common across college basketball, that is not in dispute. Having the amount of turmoil we've had in the last 2 or 3 years is not a precedent we want set nor is it something any ODU supporter should be ok with, regardless of whether or not you disagree or agree about "basketball strategy".

You can bash me if you want or call me a "negative poster" but I haven't said anything that really should be considered "negative" other than that we should expect better.

And I also agree with what someone else said, Blaine gave Ross a semester off for grades and has sat players out before for not doing well in classes.

I believe he sat out Jason Thompson as well before he ended up leaving ODU (which I am fine with, HAVE to keep grades up to keep guys eligible) but it seems odd he would dismiss Key simply for "bad grades". I feel like he threw that "academic and social responsibilities" part in there as a cover for some other bad behavior. Bad grades don't get you kicked off the team after 1 semester.

Also for those saying he'd switch to football, I highly doubt Blaine would say what he said in the paper if he was just simply switching sports. No reason to run a kid down as not living up to his responsibilities if he is actually staying in school and just deciding to play another sport.

I'm going to agree with Razor here, BT needs to tend to these guys. I know he can't be their nanny, nor should he be. But he needs to exercise the control that a coach can.

Razor's major burr with BT (and correct me if I'm wrong, Razor) is that BT isn't a stellar in game coach. I agree with that, but I also see the good he has brought to the program overall.

Some things are certainly more important than X's and O's, which yes, was mainly my biggest gripe about Taylor. This certainly isn't the thread for that though nor will I comment any further about that.

The health of the program regarding both academics and off the court behavior is something I think we can all pretty much agree upon is the lifeblood of our University's basketball team. Doesn't matter how skilled you are if you can't graduate guys or at least keep them in good standing in school. UCONN is the perfect example. I can't even imagine what Cincy's APR would have been if such a rule had existed back when Huggins was "coaching" there.

For all my disagreements about strategy/style/ability etc., I have no problem whatsoever admitting than Taylor has done a great job rebuilding ODU from the ashes of Jeff Capel's tenure. I think we all sort of have our own opinions about what the future of the program should/COULD be, but I think everyone here will agree that we don't want to see any more of these types of things occur within the program.

Blaine has run a clean ship from day 1 at ODU so I have no doubt he tolerates any shannanigans, just hearing him speak and knowing his mid-western roots, he doesn't seem like a guy who would put up with crap from players just for the sake of winning a few extra basketball games. I DO like that about him. We may never know what happened with Breon and that's fine because we aren't entitled to every little detail about these players lives, but after witnessing what happened with Kent, this is kind of the last thing this team needs right now.

Let's hope that this is the last we hear about this type of thing for a good long while.

DJ- Thanks for the clarification. Good info that I did not know.

Razor - great post.

Razor that's a solid post

(06-02-2012 07:22 PM)84Monarch Wrote:  I disagree because you have a major burr in your saddle where BT is concerned and do not seem to be objective where he is concerned. Based on your numerous posts the man can do nothing right in your opinion except quit. I also believe you are one of the most negative posters on any of these sites. That is my opinion based posts you have placed on MN, CAA and now this one.

Now as for why I do not see this as BT's fault is based on the following;
1 - Coaches do not admit students to a university. Admissions does and I am sure all four of those kids high school transcripts were approved.
2 - The kids did not meet the university's or team's academic standards, BT lets them go or suspends them. This has been done to make the impression that school is priority one. He takes the proper measures and gets the blame. He lets them slide and he would get the blame. It can't cut both ways.
3 - Bazemore may have indeed kept this a secret. The kid had not been in trouble before and our program does not have a history of it, so I am not sure the staff is scouring court records looking for our guys. Decker could not comment due to client/attorney confidentiality. If you heard BT following that incident you could tell he was shaken and taken by surprise.
4 - Of the player you named only three left the program without completing their eligibility or graduating or both. Hicks, Key and Mitchell were all dismissed for academic (social) reasons. Bazemore completed his elegibility and graduated.

thanks for listening.

Was this intended for me? I've been a staunch supporter, quite often engaging in disagreements with many currently posting on this topic. I'm guessing it was meant for me since you posted this after my post. If it is I'm guessing you have me confused with someone else.

(06-03-2012 08:09 PM)ODUR8R Wrote:  

(06-02-2012 07:22 PM)84Monarch Wrote:  I disagree because you have a major burr in your saddle where BT is concerned and do not seem to be objective where he is concerned. Based on your numerous posts the man can do nothing right in your opinion except quit. I also believe you are one of the most negative posters on any of these sites. That is my opinion based posts you have placed on MN, CAA and now this one.

Now as for why I do not see this as BT's fault is based on the following;
1 - Coaches do not admit students to a university. Admissions does and I am sure all four of those kids high school transcripts were approved.
2 - The kids did not meet the university's or team's academic standards, BT lets them go or suspends them. This has been done to make the impression that school is priority one. He takes the proper measures and gets the blame. He lets them slide and he would get the blame. It can't cut both ways.
3 - Bazemore may have indeed kept this a secret. The kid had not been in trouble before and our program does not have a history of it, so I am not sure the staff is scouring court records looking for our guys. Decker could not comment due to client/attorney confidentiality. If you heard BT following that incident you could tell he was shaken and taken by surprise.
4 - Of the player you named only three left the program without completing their eligibility or graduating or both. Hicks, Key and Mitchell were all dismissed for academic (social) reasons. Bazemore completed his elegibility and graduated.

thanks for listening.

Was this intended for me? I've been a staunch supporter, quite often engaging in disagreements with many currently posting on this topic. I'm guessing it was meant for me since you posted this after my post. If it is I'm guessing you have me confused with someone else.

Nope. Pretty sure it was meant for Razor, who has already responded. Great job RR for responding and not getting into a personal battle.

I had a coach in High School who held grudges for silly stuff to the point he would rather lose than let that person play. We won the district 14/15 years until only half of the team actually played any time. The other half rode the bench b/c our parents weren't in the booster club, or we didn't stay after practice, and even the company we kept. When his shining starters fell thru someone's attic at a house party piss drunk, their punishment was not starting the next game... 30 seconds of bench time. My first year we lost a heart-breaker in the state final, my senior year I didn't play and they didn't even see playoffs.

Turns out when playing a half roster it's hard to win, and they've only won the district once in the last 12 years. I hope whatever crawled up Blaine's rear finds it's way out soon. I don't know enough about this situation to point blame, but I did see Key ride the bench when the starter sucked. I can tell you from experience the ship is taking on water... this is worse than many of you admit, or know.

so what do you know.... would love to hear what the truth is from someone who does know.

It's difficult to take statements like that seriously without supporting information to follow. The same as folks who say "my sources say...." without telling who their "sources" are.

I can agree with some of that. Key loved playing for ODU, always played hard and couldn't see court time over Delancey. Didn't add up during the course of the season. Since this is a message board, it's safe to speculate. Key was added over Freeman, which at the time was puzzling. Right around the time we were trying hard to land DFS. DFS went to Tech, Key didn't see the court, DFS passed over us a second time and within a week Key had been removed from the team.

As Blaine says, "that's the facts, Jack."

Razor, I agree with your point on Key playing football. Should that happen I would definitely be asking what is going on in athletics. As for the hoops, there has to be more to the Key issue, then just the grades. Only time and loose lips will tell if we ever get the true details. I do enjoy the banter. I don't know about the rest of you guys by I prefer Aquatic Engineer versus Water Engineer.

I really don't know what this means "academic and social responsibility reasons", but I believe it wasn't one thing. How words are presented do matter. You can fill in a swamp, but not a wetlands.

(06-04-2012 09:18 PM)DaBigBlue Wrote:  I really don't know what this means "academic and social responsibility reasons", but I believe it wasn't one thing. How words are presented do matter. You can fill in a swamp, but not a wetlands.

From what little I know, I think you are spot on here.