(05-27-2012 03:43 PM)General Mike Wrote:  North/ South is a) a non-starter and makes no sense. Boise State in the south division? They aren't south of anyone in the Big East.

Gimme a break. As if Louisville, Cincinnati or Memphis is actually in the WEST? Hell, SMU and Houston are actually in the eastern half of the country and THEY'RE going to be in the western division under an east-west setup. So based on a single aberration you think a north-south divisional framework "makes no sense?" Sorry, but although there might be other reasons to oppose that setup, yours is highly unpersuasive.

I'm not sure why everybody thinks geographic divisions need to follow a map, especially since the nBE is all over it. I'm a Braves fan, and they were in the National League West for years. Didn't bother me, or seem to confuse anybody who really cared.

I'm not really hung up about what they do, but I think it's good that the league is considering lots of different combinations, and trying to make it as advantageous as possible to the league as a whole, rather than just blindly sticking pins in a map and being done with it. I'd say that's a small but good sign of how the BE will hopefully be run in the future.

(05-27-2012 02:48 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(05-27-2012 02:36 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-27-2012 11:56 AM)TripleA Wrote:  Network execs apparently have done research that shows that if you pit a team in one region against a team in a completely different region, you have a chance to draw a better audience, than if you pitted two SIMILAR teams in the SAME region, b/c now you have two regions to pull viewers from, not just one.

Well, i guess the network executives know best!

Let's see, should I go with them, or with you?

You make a lot of thoughtful, though often gloomy, arguments, but I just disagree with you about this one. Not that I really think it is earth-shattering, but it is informative that the TV execs brought up the idea of the non-geographic model, which apparently had not been on the radar before.

I was only being partially sarcastic. I think it is interesting that the TV execs would have this idea as well.

(05-27-2012 07:40 PM)TripleA Wrote:  I'm not really hung up about what they do, but I think it's good that the league is considering lots of different combinations, and trying to make it as advantageous as possible to the league as a whole, rather than just blindly sticking pins in a map and being done with it. I'd say that's a small but good sign of how the BE will hopefully be run in the future.

Agreed 1000%

(05-27-2012 07:55 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-27-2012 02:48 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(05-27-2012 02:36 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-27-2012 11:56 AM)TripleA Wrote:  Network execs apparently have done research that shows that if you pit a team in one region against a team in a completely different region, you have a chance to draw a better audience, than if you pitted two SIMILAR teams in the SAME region, b/c now you have two regions to pull viewers from, not just one.

Well, i guess the network executives know best!

Let's see, should I go with them, or with you?

You make a lot of thoughtful, though often gloomy, arguments, but I just disagree with you about this one. Not that I really think it is earth-shattering, but it is informative that the TV execs brought up the idea of the non-geographic model, which apparently had not been on the radar before.

I was only being partially sarcastic. I think it is interesting that the TV execs would have this idea as well.

That's fair. I'm not sure anybody in the BE ever thought about it, or that it would make a difference. Sure coulda fooled me.

Atlantic\Coastal and Legends\Leaders are two of the stupidest ideas in the history of college sports. I don't know who is in which division without looking it up and I have no interest in memorizing who is in which division either. On the flip side, I rarely watch SEC games, but I know exactly who is in the East and who is in the West without even thinking about it.

TV consultants are completely ruining college sports. The Big East would be making its biggest mistake since rejecting Penn State if this idiotic plan is adopted. I will watch Rutgers play San Diego State or UConn play Boise State because I watch those teams anyway. Ridiculous divisions will never compel me to watch Louisville or Cincinnati play Houston or SMU.

(05-27-2012 10:30 PM)Lolly Popp Wrote:  Atlantic\Coastal and Legends\Leaders are two of the stupidest ideas in the history of college sports. I don't know who is in which division without looking it up and I have no interest in memorizing who is in which division either. On the flip side, I rarely watch SEC games, but I know exactly who is in the East and who is in the West without even thinking about it.

TV consultants are completely ruining college sports. The Big East would be making its biggest mistake since rejecting Penn State if this idiotic plan is adopted. I will watch Rutgers play San Diego State or UConn play Boise State because I watch those teams anyway. Ridiculous divisions will never compel me to watch Louisville or Cincinnati play Houston or SMU.

I think that's a valid opinion, but maybe not the one the BE will necessarily adapt. But until recently, they planned to go with an East-West split, more or less, so who knows?

Just for fun, why is Auburn in the SEC West, and Missouri is in the SEC East?

(05-27-2012 03:27 PM)SDSU-Alum2003 Wrote:  

(05-26-2012 11:07 PM)Bleedin Blue Wrote:  Seems to me some sort of non-geographical set-up makes the most sense now. The one thing we're always bragging about that sets us apart from all the other conferences is that we have teams in four different time zones. We're a truly national conference, so why not have divisions that reflect it? Also, rumor is that Navy wants to play in the west to help recruit soldiers. I imagine a Navy-SDSU matchup with San Diego being such a huge Navy town would be quite a spectacle as well.

And BYU, above almost anything, wants maximum exposure to the LDS faith. A national division alignment helps them best accomplish this as they'll play in the east as much as they will in the west. i think that such an alignment would help woo them into joining the conference.

If BYU does become a member I would want SDSU to play them every year as well to re-establish our rivalry with them. They will want to play in San Diego as well for recruiting and because their are plenty of Mormons in Southern California.

No, I want BYU! Haha. BSU/BYU has the potential to develop into a HUGE rivalry. Most of southern/eastern Idaho is LDS. It seems like everyone else who isn't is a BSU fan. How about this set-up if BYU comes along?

Boise - Memphis
SDSU - Navy
BYU - Temple
Houston - SMU
USF - UCF
Rutgers - UConn
Cincy - Louisville

This setup gives both SDSU and BSU access to BYU every year. It gives San Diego, a big Navy city, a game with Navy each season.

BYU could be further enticed to join the conference by offering them exposure in both the New York, and the Philly markets every year.

This format still splits up the Texas/Florida schools which everybody seems to be a fan of.

It also protects most of the rivals in the OP. Don't think I'm missing any big ones.

I think this set-up is a great balance between protecting regional rivals, but without sticking TOO close to geography i.e.
Temple/Navy/Uconn play eachother, in addition to one florida/texas school and Temple/Navy are paired with a western team.

BSU/BYU/SDSU are together, each paired with an eastern partner, a florida/texas school and Rutgers/Cincy

I also like the Memphis/Louisville play eachother, and the fact that Louisville won't have to play too many teams out west, something it seems they weren't too fond of... Thoughts?

^ Close, but the coaches mentioned splitting the west coast teams, too, so I imagine Boise and SDSU wouldn't be in the same division. I see your point, just wonder if the west coast split idea would throw a wrench in that.

I don't think USF and Rutgers would go for that scenario. No way those two would go for a division where half their opponents are far west. It would be like Boise being put in a division with UConn,Rutgers and Temple

Every conference has different criteria its using for divisions. The Big 12 went purely geographic and over the long term (even if not initially), this gave us a set-up where the south was where most the focus was. It had 2 of the 3 super brand names and then the next closest one (Texas A&M). It also had all the recruiting advantages with its fantastic access to Texas. The Big Ten actually made note of the set-up at some point when making divisions and didn't want the same issues. While I don't think they did a very good job still (Wisconsin made too many sacrifices rather than spreading that around and putting Ohio State and Michigan in opposite divisions was unwise), they were trying hard to avoid the Big 12 issues.

I think the Big East could work either way. East-West are simple and since you already have a huge conference that works. On the other hand that gives you a few issues too. For one it puts Memphis, who is naturally aligned with Cincinnati and Louisville in the west. For another, it does kind of create a division between old and new rather than encourage mixing together and forgetting those differences.

At the end of the day, I'd put the natural rivalries (or ones that for geography are likely to become) together and work divisions from there. It's hard to do this right without team #14, but I'm going to pretend its Fresno State here.

Cincinnati-Louisville-Memphis
UConn-Rutgers-Temple
Central Florida-South Florida
SMU-Houston
San Diego State-Fresno State-Boise State
Navy

In my set-up, I would want all the teams listed together above to play every year, either for rivalry reasons for to support potential rivalries (although Boise State maybe should be by itself like Navy, I reluctantly put it there because they have played Fresno State and it is a far west college). There are 2 teams in California, Florida, and Texas. Ideally, I'd want 3 of those in each division for recruiting purposes.

American
Cincinnati
Louisville
Memphis
San Diego State
Boise State
Fresno State
Central Florida (permanent crossover with South Florida)

National
UConn
Rutgers
Temple
Navy
Houston
SMU
South Florida (permanent crossover with Central Florida)

This set-up lets you avoid permanent crossovers with 1 exception to maximize play against the other division (important since there are only 8 games and 6 in division games). It keeps all natural geographic rivals (or potential ones) together. It balances teams from strong recruiting states.

(05-27-2012 11:50 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(05-27-2012 10:30 PM)Lolly Popp Wrote:  Atlantic\Coastal and Legends\Leaders are two of the stupidest ideas in the history of college sports. I don't know who is in which division without looking it up and I have no interest in memorizing who is in which division either. On the flip side, I rarely watch SEC games, but I know exactly who is in the East and who is in the West without even thinking about it.

TV consultants are completely ruining college sports. The Big East would be making its biggest mistake since rejecting Penn State if this idiotic plan is adopted. I will watch Rutgers play San Diego State or UConn play Boise State because I watch those teams anyway. Ridiculous divisions will never compel me to watch Louisville or Cincinnati play Houston or SMU.

I think that's a valid opinion, but maybe not the one the BE will necessarily adapt. But until recently, they planned to go with an East-West split, more or less, so who knows?

Just for fun, why is Auburn in the SEC West, and Missouri is in the SEC East?

Along those lines, the NHL used to have Philadelphia in the West and Vancouver in the East. That almost makes my brain explode.

(05-27-2012 06:08 PM)SleepingGiantsFan Wrote:  

(05-27-2012 03:43 PM)General Mike Wrote:  North/ South is a) a non-starter and makes no sense. Boise State in the south division? They aren't south of anyone in the Big East.

Gimme a break. As if Louisville, Cincinnati or Memphis is actually in the WEST? Hell, SMU and Houston are actually in the eastern half of the country and THEY'RE going to be in the western division under an east-west setup. So based on a single aberration you think a north-south divisional framework "makes no sense?" Sorry, but although there might be other reasons to oppose that setup, yours is highly unpersuasive.

Never tell a Texan that he's in the "East".

Texas is either Southern, Southwestern, or its own distinct region (which is probably the most accurate description).

(05-28-2012 09:52 AM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  

(05-27-2012 11:50 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(05-27-2012 10:30 PM)Lolly Popp Wrote:  Atlantic\Coastal and Legends\Leaders are two of the stupidest ideas in the history of college sports. I don't know who is in which division without looking it up and I have no interest in memorizing who is in which division either. On the flip side, I rarely watch SEC games, but I know exactly who is in the East and who is in the West without even thinking about it.

TV consultants are completely ruining college sports. The Big East would be making its biggest mistake since rejecting Penn State if this idiotic plan is adopted. I will watch Rutgers play San Diego State or UConn play Boise State because I watch those teams anyway. Ridiculous divisions will never compel me to watch Louisville or Cincinnati play Houston or SMU.

I think that's a valid opinion, but maybe not the one the BE will necessarily adapt. But until recently, they planned to go with an East-West split, more or less, so who knows?

Just for fun, why is Auburn in the SEC West, and Missouri is in the SEC East?

Along those lines, the NHL used to have Philadelphia in the West and Vancouver in the East. That almost makes my brain explode.

Yep, as I said elsewhere, the Atlanta Braves were in the NL West with LA, SD and SF for years.

With most FB teams taking charter flights now, it's really not a huge issue. As someone else noted, MLB teams used to travel by train. You can fly anywhere in the country in less time than it takes to go a few hundred miles by train.

I'm just guessing, but I think the BE will wind up with the non-geo model, splitting the TX, FL and western teams for recruiting purposes, and then making those pairs permanent cross-division rivals.

(05-28-2012 10:00 AM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  

(05-27-2012 06:08 PM)SleepingGiantsFan Wrote:  

(05-27-2012 03:43 PM)General Mike Wrote:  North/ South is a) a non-starter and makes no sense. Boise State in the south division? They aren't south of anyone in the Big East.

Gimme a break. As if Louisville, Cincinnati or Memphis is actually in the WEST? Hell, SMU and Houston are actually in the eastern half of the country and THEY'RE going to be in the western division under an east-west setup. So based on a single aberration you think a north-south divisional framework "makes no sense?" Sorry, but although there might be other reasons to oppose that setup, yours is highly unpersuasive.

Never tell a Texan that he's in the "East".

Texas is either Southern, Southwestern, or its own distinct region (which is probably the most accurate description).

That's why using directional names for divisions is not always a good idea. Or using directions in a conference name, either.

Oops...too late, lol. Memphis, SMU, UH, BSU and SDSU (and #14) certainly aren't "East." The conference is "Big" now, though.

American.....................National
Louisville..........................Cincinnati
Memphis.......................... Team #14 (BYU, Air Force, Fresno St)
UConn............................. Rutgers
Temple............................ Navy
Boise St...........................SDSU
Houston...........................SMU
UCF.................................USF

(05-28-2012 10:58 AM)UofLgrad07 Wrote:  American.....................National
Louisville..........................Cincinnati
Memphis.......................... Team #14 (BYU, Air Force, Fresno St)
UConn............................. Rutgers
Temple............................ Navy
Boise St...........................SDSU
Houston...........................SMU
UCF.................................USF

I like that the best so far. But if Team #14 is BYU, you can match up BYU and Boise, and then Memphis and SDSU. If it's Fresno, then Memphis-Boise and SDSU-Fresno. If it's AF, then Memphis-AF, as you had it.

Memphis is not going to be picky, as long as they are in a division with Louisville, with UC as second choice.

What happens if that team is UMass?

My preferred divisions (assuming Air Force joins*):

Northeast

UofL
Cincy
Memphis
Rutgers
Uconn
Temple
Navy

Southwest

AFA
SDSU
Boise
SMU
Houston
UCF
USF

Navy and AFA can be a permanent crossover if they insist, for everyone else, two rotating games a year with teams from the other division. IMO this maximizes rivalry potential on a regional basis, but will still give us several games that cross big regions, for those who think cross-sectional and time zone factors are an advantage.

* If a team from the east joins instead of AFA, like Umass or ECU, then they join the northeast and Memphis shifts to the southwest. Any team from the deep south (like USM) or west joins, then they take AFA's place in the SW.

(05-28-2012 11:43 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  My preferred divisions (assuming Air Force joins*):

Northeast

UofL
Cincy
Memphis
Rutgers
Uconn
Temple
Navy

Southwest

AFA
SDSU
Boise
SMU
Houston
UCF
USF

Navy and AFA can be a permanent crossover if they insist, for everyone else, two rotating games a year with teams from the other division. IMO this maximizes rivalry potential on a regional basis, but will still give us several games that cross big regions, for those who think cross-sectional and time zone factors are an advantage.

* If a team from the east joins instead of AFA, like Umass or ECU, then they join the northeast and Memphis shifts to the southwest. Any team from the deep south (like USM) or west joins, then they take AFA's place in the SW.

I love that setup. It works if Fresno State, BYU, or Air Force joins. Also, if someone leaves than UMass, Southern Miss, or ECU could jump in as well.

The only other option I like is keeping the Florida schools in the east and moving Navy and Memphis west. Navy is an eastern school with a national base while Memphis is southwest enough to make it work as well.