(05-26-2012 11:47 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(05-26-2012 11:23 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(05-26-2012 11:16 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  Looks OK. Get back to me when they change the rule that says you need 6 teams in a division for a title game.

You could overcome that by linking two pods into a division. I'm just not sure the NCAA would let you switch pods every year to keep a true rotation in effect.

The NCAA has no control how a conference sets up it's divisions. We need to think outside the college box so the east and west teams can play each other more often than a 7-7 split would allow.

They certainly have rules for a minimum of 12 in a conference, to play a CCG, and they certainly have a rule that you can't play semifinal games to get there.

And I think they require 6 in a division, assuming you have 12 and want a CCG, IIRC. And if they don't, they still might have a say about switching teams in divisions each year. JMO. Maybe somebody can look it up.

I'm not arguing against your concept. I like it. I'm simply pointing out that there might be obstacles to it.

(05-26-2012 12:30 PM)NeighSayer Wrote:  

(05-26-2012 08:06 AM)templefootballfan Wrote:  BYU will come with the right paycheck
ESPN pays them 7 million & BYU-TV
BYU is proablly looking for 10 million.
BE best bet might be taking Air Force
& sighning BYU for 8-10 game FB & BB sch alliance

I have two brothers who went to BYU, one of which is very well connected to decision makers in the athletic department. While the bump in money was nice, it was NOT the driving factor for independence. BYU wants exposure above all else, and the ability to broadcast Tier 3 games on BYUtv.

I think they would get more exposure in the BE, than they would indy, especially if they're having trouble booking games.

(05-26-2012 01:25 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(05-26-2012 12:30 PM)NeighSayer Wrote:  

(05-26-2012 08:06 AM)templefootballfan Wrote:  BYU will come with the right paycheck
ESPN pays them 7 million & BYU-TV
BYU is proablly looking for 10 million.
BE best bet might be taking Air Force
& sighning BYU for 8-10 game FB & BB sch alliance

I have two brothers who went to BYU, one of which is very well connected to decision makers in the athletic department. While the bump in money was nice, it was NOT the driving factor for independence. BYU wants exposure above all else, and the ability to broadcast Tier 3 games on BYUtv.

I think they would get more exposure in the BE, than they would indy, especially if they're having trouble booking games.

He is right about what BYU "Thinks" the issue is.

Problem is that just like the old MWC TV deal BYU fought hard to adopt, then hated & complained-about, they have a need to sanitize & ignore the disadvantages that are always-present in any major decision.

There are 2 factions of BYU fans, the "Baby-Boomer" Stuck in the 80s crowd and everyone else. Most of the Boomers live OUTSIDE of Utah and don't come to games much, and the stadium is packed with mostly "Other" demographic subgroups.

Independence is a "WIN" for the far-flung boomers, because they can watch their team on TV all the time... for the season ticketholders, it's a disaster, because there aren't and won't be any meaningful games in November, during "Conference Crunch" time. They'll have a bunch of games with WAC trash teams, and nobody cares, because their season is already over.

Indy for BYU is a battle between their TV fans and their regional ticketholders & donors. I have no clue which faction is going to win.

My BYU neighbors here divide into 2 groups, one who is stupid & blind, and believes that ANY decision BYU makes is 110% "Good", simply BECAUSE they chose it... and for them, it doesn't matter what BYU does, so they think Indy is great because BYU propaganda says it is.
...and then there are the donors and ticketholders and non-lemmings, and the vast majority of those feels their tickets and donations have been "De-Valued" significantly by the Independence move... and they're probably right. These folks welcome the end of Independence.

(05-26-2012 01:33 PM)BadWillHunting Wrote:  

(05-26-2012 01:25 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(05-26-2012 12:30 PM)NeighSayer Wrote:  

(05-26-2012 08:06 AM)templefootballfan Wrote:  BYU will come with the right paycheck
ESPN pays them 7 million & BYU-TV
BYU is proablly looking for 10 million.
BE best bet might be taking Air Force
& sighning BYU for 8-10 game FB & BB sch alliance

I have two brothers who went to BYU, one of which is very well connected to decision makers in the athletic department. While the bump in money was nice, it was NOT the driving factor for independence. BYU wants exposure above all else, and the ability to broadcast Tier 3 games on BYUtv.

I think they would get more exposure in the BE, than they would indy, especially if they're having trouble booking games.

He is right about what BYU "Thinks" the issue is.

Problem is that just like the old MWC TV deal BYU fought hard to adopt, then hated & complained-about, they have a need to sanitize & ignore the disadvantages that are always-present in any major decision.

There are 2 factions of BYU fans, the "Baby-Boomer" Stuck in the 80s crowd and everyone else. Most of the Boomers live OUTSIDE of Utah and don't come to games much, and the stadium is packed with mostly "Other" demographic subgroups.

Independence is a "WIN" for the far-flung boomers, because they can watch their team on TV all the time... for the season ticketholders, it's a disaster, because there aren't and won't be any meaningful games in November, during "Conference Crunch" time. They'll have a bunch of games with WAC trash teams, and nobody cares, because their season is already over.

Indy for BYU is a battle between their TV fans and their regional ticketholders & donors. I have no clue which faction is going to win.

My BYU neighbors here divide into 2 groups, one who is stupid & blind, and believes that ANY decision BYU makes is 110% "Good", simply BECAUSE they chose it... and for them, it doesn't matter what BYU does, so they think Indy is great because BYU propaganda says it is.
...and then there are the donors and ticketholders and non-lemmings, and the vast majority of those feels their tickets and donations have been "De-Valued" significantly by the Independence move... and they're probably right. These folks welcome the end of Independence.

Yeah, I agree with that. But throw in the fact that the church really uses the team for exposure unrelated to FB. That's another reason it might make sense to get into a more "national" conference, spread over 4 time zones, as opposed to scheduling more regional teams. Assuming they see it that way.

(05-26-2012 01:39 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(05-26-2012 01:33 PM)BadWillHunting Wrote:  

(05-26-2012 01:25 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(05-26-2012 12:30 PM)NeighSayer Wrote:  

(05-26-2012 08:06 AM)templefootballfan Wrote:  BYU will come with the right paycheck
ESPN pays them 7 million & BYU-TV
BYU is proablly looking for 10 million.
BE best bet might be taking Air Force
& sighning BYU for 8-10 game FB & BB sch alliance

I have two brothers who went to BYU, one of which is very well connected to decision makers in the athletic department. While the bump in money was nice, it was NOT the driving factor for independence. BYU wants exposure above all else, and the ability to broadcast Tier 3 games on BYUtv.

I think they would get more exposure in the BE, than they would indy, especially if they're having trouble booking games.

He is right about what BYU "Thinks" the issue is.

Problem is that just like the old MWC TV deal BYU fought hard to adopt, then hated & complained-about, they have a need to sanitize & ignore the disadvantages that are always-present in any major decision.

There are 2 factions of BYU fans, the "Baby-Boomer" Stuck in the 80s crowd and everyone else. Most of the Boomers live OUTSIDE of Utah and don't come to games much, and the stadium is packed with mostly "Other" demographic subgroups.

Independence is a "WIN" for the far-flung boomers, because they can watch their team on TV all the time... for the season ticketholders, it's a disaster, because there aren't and won't be any meaningful games in November, during "Conference Crunch" time. They'll have a bunch of games with WAC trash teams, and nobody cares, because their season is already over.

Indy for BYU is a battle between their TV fans and their regional ticketholders & donors. I have no clue which faction is going to win.

My BYU neighbors here divide into 2 groups, one who is stupid & blind, and believes that ANY decision BYU makes is 110% "Good", simply BECAUSE they chose it... and for them, it doesn't matter what BYU does, so they think Indy is great because BYU propaganda says it is.
...and then there are the donors and ticketholders and non-lemmings, and the vast majority of those feels their tickets and donations have been "De-Valued" significantly by the Independence move... and they're probably right. These folks welcome the end of Independence.

Yeah, I agree with that. But throw in the fact that the church really uses the team for exposure unrelated to FB. That's another reason it might make sense to get into a more "national" conference, spread over 4 time zones, as opposed to scheduling more regional teams. Assuming they see it that way.

Frankly, I think they are in if the money is the same or better. I think the TV rights issues are mostly hammered out and agreed to on both sides. But given the TV issues they had in the Mountain West, there was no way they were giving up a sure thing gig with ESPN for a completely unknown quantity with an unknown carrier with unknown demands. Just because the Big East and BYU agreed on the rights issues doesnt mean the eventual carrier wouldnt balk at the agreement--or offer less money. If I were in BYU's shoes, I'd have waited too.

(05-26-2012 11:05 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  I say we sell them on a true national conference where they will play teams from across the country on a more regular basis than a two division format. 16 teams made up of four pods. I've laid this out numerous times and i think it's something that could maximize our TV contract. It ensures the best teams play each other more consistently, it helps the bottom teams have a better chance to become bowl eligible and helps foster rivalries between teams on opposite ends of the country. You would play everyone on a more consistent basis and every player would play every single team in their first three years. So even if someone leaves early they would play all 15 of their conference opponents.

I think this could convince BYU to join and play that national schedule they covet.

It's the NFL style and they use it for a reason, because it works. It doesn't just work, it works very well and the TV execs love it. Matching up the best teams every year and creating unique games with teams spanning the country will ensure we get better TV time slots.

A four team playoff for the conference title would be a TV bonanza on NBC.

North:
Rutgers
UConn
Temple
Navy

South:
UofL
Cincy
USF
UCF

Mid-west:
Houston
SMU
Memphis
AF

West:
Boise
BYU
Fresno
SD St

Looks good to me.

(05-26-2012 01:52 PM)attackfrog Wrote:  Frankly, I think they are in if the money is the same or better. I think the TV rights issues are mostly hammered out and agreed to on both sides. But given the TV issues they had in the Mountain West, there was no way they were giving up a sure thing gig with ESPN for a completely unknown quantity with an unknown carrier with unknown demands. Just because the Big East and BYU agreed on the rights issues doesnt mean the eventual carrier wouldnt balk at the agreement--or offer less money. If I were in BYU's shoes, I'd have waited too.

I think that's logical, too. But sometimes, the LDS leaders don't make decisions that seem logical to the rest of us. That's why I don't think we can predict it with any certainty.

(05-26-2012 11:18 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(05-26-2012 11:16 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  Looks OK. Get back to me when they change the rule that says you need 6 teams in a division for a title game.

It wasn't 6 teams in a division but 12 teams in the conference.

Incorrect. NCAA By-Law 17.9.5.2[c] says:

[c] Twelve-Member Conference Championship Game. [FBS/FCS] A conference championship game between division champions of a member conference of 12 or more institutions that is divided into two divisions (of six or more institutions each), each of which conducts round-robin, regular-season competition among the members of that division

So you need:

1. 12 or more
2. Divided into 2 divisons of at least 6
3. Where each school in a division plays all the other schools in that division

So, 4-team divisions are not authorized. Further, there is no rule that authorizes conference football semifinals.

Don't get me wrong. I like your idea. It's just impossible under the current rules, and would not be possible until the rule book is re-written.

Which is why I said "Get back to me when they amend the rules . . ."

"the Philadelphia Inquirer reports that BYU or Air Force could join the Big East and become the league's 14th member."

So could Fresno, N tex, Haw, Tokyo Tech.

What a waste of an article.

The problem BYU has as an Indy is getting games late in season. Most of their late season match ups were WAC teams that might be reduced by going into MWC and in Idaho and NMSU case going to FBS. Now Utah is ending their series with them. GTech canceled their games with them when ACC added a 9 game schedule.
If the BE can show that they can make more money and still get exposure. They might change thir minds.

lets hope.

Hammer out the TV deal with BYU. They bring the most. National name with a National Championship, 65,000 seat stadium, good Western bowl attendance (helps with Fiesta Bowl access), close Boise travel partner, National games with ND, and they already have a home for their BB and Olympic sports.

Air Force has a problem with their BB and Olympic Sports unless all the Western teams put their BB and Olympic Sports in the WAC together to support that conference. Air Force keeps the Commanders Trophy intact with Navy and Army too. They also help Navy scheduling issues quite a bit once they join the BE with an eight game conference schedule leaving them with ND which becomes a Conference / Independent game as opposed to a game between two independents, and their ability to schedule three winnable OOC games to help with bowl eligibility at the end of the season.

Fresno has less problems than Air Force with their BB and Olympic sports because they could put those sports in the Big West with SDSU and Boise as a big three in that conference and keep rivalries among themselves in BB and Olympic sports as well as playing football against each other in the Big East. They have a decent market and would travel well with Boise and SDSU. They would also give the BE another California recruiting school (2), to go along with two schools in Florida and Texas too. They probably bring more to the conference in the long run over Air Force but the BE brass seem to have the preference of BYU then Air Force over Fresno. If BYU rejects the BE, Air Force could do both themselves and the BE a favor and stay in the MWC to protect their BB and Olympic sports by remaining in an All Sports League and thus allow the BE to pick up another state university in Fresno in prime California recruiting territory.

All three have advantages but I would go with BYU, then Fresno, then Air Force. Air Force is a decent add Nationally if that is the way the BE goes but that choice is more of a benefit to Navy for scheduling purposes then it is for the Conference as a whole if you look at the Western Expansion long term.

:coffee2:

(05-27-2012 07:54 AM)Cubanbull Wrote:  The problem BYU has as an Indy is getting games late in season. Most of their late season match ups were WAC teams that might be reduced by going into MWC and in Idaho and NMSU case going to FBS. Now Utah is ending their series with them. GTech canceled their games with them when ACC added a 9 game schedule.
If the BE can show that they can make more money and still get exposure. They might change thir minds.

I recall a quote by Coach Mendenhall where he talked about the challenge of the late-season schedule. Without a conference championship on the line, and few big name teams willing to play in November, the fan base fizzles out between October and the bowl game.

(05-27-2012 08:26 AM)NeighSayer Wrote:  

(05-27-2012 07:54 AM)Cubanbull Wrote:  The problem BYU has as an Indy is getting games late in season. Most of their late season match ups were WAC teams that might be reduced by going into MWC and in Idaho and NMSU case going to FBS. Now Utah is ending their series with them. GTech canceled their games with them when ACC added a 9 game schedule.
If the BE can show that they can make more money and still get exposure. They might change thir minds.

I recall a quote by Coach Mendenhall where he talked about the challenge of the late-season schedule. Without a conference championship on the line, and few big name teams willing to play in November, the fan base fizzles out between October and the bowl game.

And the bowl game is a minor lower paying bowl unless they finish undefeated and get a shot at a BCS Bowl.

(05-27-2012 08:23 AM)panite Wrote:  Hammer out the TV deal with BYU. They bring the most. National name with a National Championship, 65,000 seat stadium, good Western bowl attendance (helps with Fiesta Bowl access), close Boise travel partner, National games with ND, and they already have a home for their BB and Olympic sports.

Air Force has a problem with their BB and Olympic Sports unless all the Western teams put their BB and Olympic Sports in the WAC together to support that conference. Air Force keeps the Commanders Trophy intact with Navy and Army too. They also help Navy scheduling issues quite a bit once they join the BE with an eight game conference schedule leaving them with ND which becomes a Conference / Independent game as opposed to a game between two independents, and their ability to schedule three winnable OOC games to help with bowl eligibility at the end of the season.

Fresno has less problems than Air Force with their BB and Olympic sports because they could put those sports in the Big West with SDSU and Boise as a big three in that conference and keep rivalries among themselves in BB and Olympic sports as well as playing football against each other in the Big East. They have a decent market and would travel well with Boise and SDSU. They would also give the BE another California recruiting school (2), to go along with two schools in Florida and Texas too. They probably bring more to the conference in the long run over Air Force but the BE brass seem to have the preference of BYU then Air Force over Fresno. If BYU rejects the BE, Air Force could do both themselves and the BE a favor and stay in the MWC to protect their BB and Olympic sports by remaining in an All Sports League and thus allow the BE to pick up another state university in Fresno in prime California recruiting territory.

All three have advantages but I would go with BYU, then Fresno, then Air Force. Air Force is a decent add Nationally if that is the way the BE goes but that choice is more of a benefit to Navy for scheduling purposes then it is for the Conference as a whole if you look at the Western Expansion long term.

:coffee2:

Right now, BYU is absolutely the BE's official first choice, and AF is the official second choice. Fresno has never been mentioned publicly, AFAIK.

I agree with both you and the BE that BYU should be first choice. I'm unsure about AF vs. Fresno, but I don't think it's even a race, as far as the BE is concerned.

If we lose 2 teams, then maybe we could get all 3. Otherwise, it needs to be BYU.

(05-27-2012 07:43 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  "the Philadelphia Inquirer reports that BYU or Air Force could join the Big East and become the league's 14th member."

So could Fresno, N tex, Haw, Tokyo Tech.

What a waste of an article.

Well to be honest not everyone is a internet fb info nut like all of us. Casual fans in philly prob didnt know that the big east are looking into those schools. Especially casual Temple fans who are now interested in big east news.

(05-27-2012 11:34 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(05-27-2012 07:43 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  "the Philadelphia Inquirer reports that BYU or Air Force could join the Big East and become the league's 14th member."

So could Fresno, N tex, Haw, Tokyo Tech.

What a waste of an article.

Well to be honest not everyone is a internet fb info nut like all of us. Casual fans in philly prob didnt know that the big east are looking into those schools. Especially casual Temple fans who are now interested in big east news.

LOL.

"Nova Scotia Western Institute of Technology, definitely will be the next considered..."

I agree at this point or any future point... I dont see Fresno State being even though as a potential member for the BE other than me. Good luck to the BE and I just be stalking for a distance.

The Big East needs to just target all three of Air Force, BYU, and Fresno State in order to build a full-fledged national TV alliance in football. Enough cherry picking and screwing around. Make a plan, lay it out, and get this done.

(05-27-2012 10:15 PM)Lolly Popp Wrote:  The Big East needs to just target all three of Air Force, BYU, and Fresno State in order to build a full-fledged national TV alliance in football. Enough cherry picking and screwing around. Make a plan, lay it out, and get this done.

This is basically my position. Lock up the west, go all-out for a hybrid deal with the ACC, ND, and the Orange + Fiesta bowls to secure a lucrative BCS home for all three parties, and get the best multi-partner TV deal possible.