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JRsec Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Big XII makes TV deal official
(05-08-2012 09:22 AM)Sammy11 Wrote:  The fact is I don't see more than five schools going anywhere anytime soon. So even a simple majority is doubtful. Add to that the complications of no single league taking six or more and the existing 6 year granting of rights and it all seems close to impossible. You'd need two leagues working together to invite at least six and maybe 8. That would present a legal risk for the schools being left behind having plenty of ammo for tortuous interference where it would be pretty clear the two inviting leagues tampered.

The logistics required would be crazy.

Four to the PAC, two or three to the B1G, and two to the SEC would be the only way it happens. But you avoid the legalities by organizing the steps this way, silent negotiations in which 8 or more teams are guaranteed the moves privately and contingent upon a successful vote to disband. Then the moves happen all at once. There is no interference, tortuous or otherwise, if the league disbands.

Depending on how the commissioners of the PAC, B1G, and SEC see the future of the upper tier, one more big move may be all it takes. If 64 is the number of upper tier teams they want then whatever happens, if anything, will happen quickly and decisively, whether to the Big 12 or ACC. If the number they see is 72 (a better number for many reasons) then it will take a lot longer to get there, and we will have likely seen the end of this round of big moves and should have 3 or 4 years of peace before something else happens.

Again my only point is that the possibility of movement is not precluded.

JR
(This post was last modified: 05-08-2012 09:36 AM by JRsec.)
05-08-2012 09:35 AM
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CommuterBob Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Big XII makes TV deal official
(05-07-2012 09:51 PM)Sammy11 Wrote:  Big 12 is incorporated in Maryland which usually requires a 51% dissolution vote. However it could have been set to different terms in the articles of incorporation and some have reported it requiring 75%.

The Big 12 is incorporated in Texas, not Maryland.

http://www.manta.com/c/mtc548p/big-12-conference-inc

The only bylaws for the Big XII I could find were from 2006 and make no mention of dissolution - votes or otherwise.

The point remains, though. Nobody in the Big XII is going anywhere until the GOR is a manageable amount (likely 2-3 years before expiration).
05-08-2012 09:50 AM
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1845 Bear Offline
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Post: #43
Big XII makes TV deal official
(05-08-2012 09:50 AM)CommuterBob Wrote:  
(05-07-2012 09:51 PM)Sammy11 Wrote:  Big 12 is incorporated in Maryland which usually requires a 51% dissolution vote. However it could have been set to different terms in the articles of incorporation and some have reported it requiring 75%.

The Big 12 is incorporated in Texas, not Maryland.

http://www.manta.com/c/mtc548p/big-12-conference-inc

The only bylaws for the Big XII I could find were from 2006 and make no mention of dissolution - votes or otherwise.

The point remains, though. Nobody in the Big XII is going anywhere until the GOR is a manageable amount (likely 2-3 years before expiration).

During the 2010 crisis it was widely reported as Maryland. Also your link says only two years in business. That doesn't seem right.
05-08-2012 10:05 AM
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1845 Bear Offline
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Post: #44
Big XII makes TV deal official
(05-08-2012 09:35 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-08-2012 09:22 AM)Sammy11 Wrote:  The fact is I don't see more than five schools going anywhere anytime soon. So even a simple majority is doubtful. Add to that the complications of no single league taking six or more and the existing 6 year granting of rights and it all seems close to impossible. You'd need two leagues working together to invite at least six and maybe 8. That would present a legal risk for the schools being left behind having plenty of ammo for tortuous interference where it would be pretty clear the two inviting leagues tampered.

The logistics required would be crazy.

Four to the PAC, two or three to the B1G, and two to the SEC would be the only way it happens. But you avoid the legalities by organizing the steps this way, silent negotiations in which 8 or more teams are guaranteed the moves privately and contingent upon a successful vote to disband. Then the moves happen all at once. There is no interference, tortuous or otherwise, if the league disbands.

Depending on how the commissioners of the PAC, B1G, and SEC see the future of the upper tier, one more big move may be all it takes. If 64 is the number of upper tier teams they want then whatever happens, if anything, will happen quickly and decisively, whether to the Big 12 or ACC. If the number they see is 72 (a better number for many reasons) then it will take a lot longer to get there, and we will have likely seen the end of this round of big moves and should have 3 or 4 years of peace before something else happens.

Again my only point is that the possibility of movement is not precluded.

JR

Movement is not precluded IF a complicated set of dominoes falls just right. For that to happen the Big Ten, SEC, or ACC would have to take 2 or 4 of WVU, KU, KSU, ISU, BU, and TCU.

The SEC, ACC, and B1G decided against all of them. The odds of them working tirelessly to get them out of a GOR isn't happening when each league has more available targets providing similar value.
05-08-2012 10:12 AM
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Post: #45
RE: Big XII makes TV deal official
(05-08-2012 07:30 AM)TerryD Wrote:  Why would ND join the Big 12?

They wouldn't. But that doesn't keep them from being rumor-mill fodder. 04-cheers
05-08-2012 10:56 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Big XII makes TV deal official
(05-08-2012 10:12 AM)Sammy11 Wrote:  
(05-08-2012 09:35 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-08-2012 09:22 AM)Sammy11 Wrote:  The fact is I don't see more than five schools going anywhere anytime soon. So even a simple majority is doubtful. Add to that the complications of no single league taking six or more and the existing 6 year granting of rights and it all seems close to impossible. You'd need two leagues working together to invite at least six and maybe 8. That would present a legal risk for the schools being left behind having plenty of ammo for tortuous interference where it would be pretty clear the two inviting leagues tampered.

The logistics required would be crazy.

Four to the PAC, two or three to the B1G, and two to the SEC would be the only way it happens. But you avoid the legalities by organizing the steps this way, silent negotiations in which 8 or more teams are guaranteed the moves privately and contingent upon a successful vote to disband. Then the moves happen all at once. There is no interference, tortuous or otherwise, if the league disbands.

Depending on how the commissioners of the PAC, B1G, and SEC see the future of the upper tier, one more big move may be all it takes. If 64 is the number of upper tier teams they want then whatever happens, if anything, will happen quickly and decisively, whether to the Big 12 or ACC. If the number they see is 72 (a better number for many reasons) then it will take a lot longer to get there, and we will have likely seen the end of this round of big moves and should have 3 or 4 years of peace before something else happens.

Again my only point is that the possibility of movement is not precluded.

JR

Movement is not precluded IF a complicated set of dominoes falls just right. For that to happen the Big Ten, SEC, or ACC would have to take 2 or 4 of WVU, KU, KSU, ISU, BU, and TCU.

The SEC, ACC, and B1G decided against all of them. The odds of them working tirelessly to get them out of a GOR isn't happening when each league has more available targets providing similar value.

You left out the PAC. If Rutgers and UConn round out 16 in the ACC and Notre Dame moves to the B1G Delany will look to pair someone with them. I think that would be either Oklahoma, or Kansas. In either case two more would be needed. It could be Texas, but the Big 10 won't take Tech. That's why I believe the PAC would take the Horns, Red Raiders, Bears and Wildcats. The Big 10 would take I.S.U. only because they would need 1 more after KU, OU, and ND. It would really breakdown their conference more equitably. West: Nebraska, OU, KU, I.S.U. Northwest: Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, Illinois Northeast: Michigan, Michigan State, ND, Northwestern East: Indiana, Purdue, Ohio State, Penn State.

West Virginia and OSU balance the SEC nicely: West: Arkansas, Oklahoma State, Missouri, Texas A&M North: Kentucky, West Virginia, Tennessee, Vanderbilt East: Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Auburn South: Alabama, L.S.U., Ole Miss, Miss State.

The PAC is equally obvious: North: Oregon, OrSt., Wash., WSU Coast: Cal, USC, UCLA, Stanford, South: Arizona, ASU, Utah, Texas Tech East: Texas, Baylor, Colorado, Kansas State.

While I don't think we are going there (right now) I'm just saying that the movitvation would be simple. It is one of the few scenario's that gives both the PAC and Big 10 valuable adds, with no real duds. The Big 10 adds AAU schools. ND and OU are national brands, and the lowest ranked school in the Big 10 would be OU and NU at 101st. The PAC outside of the California four (and Washington) are not exclusionary academically. It would satisfy the SEC, and the ACC would be happy as a clam (except for F.S.U. and Clemson) who aren't happy anyway.

Your only victim here would be T.C.U. who would be back in a league with schools nearer their own size until the upper tier decided to expand to 72. Fluid situations usually take the path of least resistance. The resistance here are Network affiliations which is why none of this is likely to happen anytime soon, and indeed has not already happened. JR
05-08-2012 11:16 AM
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TerryD Online
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Post: #47
RE: Big XII makes TV deal official
(05-08-2012 08:52 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-07-2012 09:51 PM)Sammy11 Wrote:  
(05-07-2012 09:34 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-07-2012 03:23 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  $200 M/year for 13 years. GOR to be extended to match TV deal.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball...pnfox-deal

So for any of you who think the PAC is going to add Texas and OK anytime soon, forget it. The Big XII is now stable for at least a decade.
I'm not saying it will happen, but....................................................
If they vote to disband the grant of rights is void. The TV contract too.
As in life, nothing is certain, but uncertainty. JR
Big 12 is incorporated in Maryland which usually requires a 51% dissolution vote. However it could have been set to different terms in the articles of incorporation and some have reported it requiring 75%.

So you'd need 6 votes or 8 depending on articles of incorporation as it would either set 75% or Md law would automatically set 51%.

Texoma 4- say they do a 180 to the now similar paying PAC 12
Wvu- Say the SEC grabs them

After those 5, who else? Nobody is likely going to be taking KU, KSU, ISU, BU, TCU.

The Big 12 could offer BYU, Boise, UH, and Louisville all sports and no big east threat.

The ACC and B1G passed on the forgotten 4 and TCU before. SEC already has a share of the KC market with MU. They likely look east. PAC would be full.

It is doubtful that you'd get six votes to disband EVEN IF the SEC or ACC was to grab WVU. If the cut was 75% it's a nonstarter.

Fact is schools don't sign for 13 years if they are looking around. If we add two or more schools as many expect there won't be any way out.

Thanks for the response Sammy11 that's what I like about your posts. You are precise and informed. Whether there are enough votes is one issue and there is a second, so let's take issue #1. All of this is of course is hypothetical, since I wasn't predicting dissolution, just pointing out that it is still possible.

Whether you could get 8 votes to disband depends upon whom might be going where and who might be going with them. Let's say the Big 10 had an opportunity to pick up two AAU schools and a national brand. I could see them taking OU as the national brand to reunite them with Nebraska, and taking Kansas with them (AAU and a great basketball program) picking up ND or Rutgers if the ACC hasn't grabbed the latter, and perhaps consolidating with Iowa State also (AAU). If the Big 10 expands in that direction then Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, and Kansas State could go west. With Oklahoma State and West Virginia to the SEC. That's a scenario in which 8 or even 9 votes could be gotten.

And if four 16 team conferences is the initial objective and the ACC survives and takes two of Rutgers, UConn, or Notre Dame. Then Delany in order to fit his profile would take the remainder of who the ACC couldn't get (likely ND in that case) and expand with good schools. Texas and Oklahoma could be paired in the Big10/PAC partnership.
The SEC would have no eastern targets they could acquire and West Virginia would give them part of the new market area they desire and Oklahoma State would be a solid addition. With the Cowboys secured OU would be free to move to the Big 10.

The second issue you raise is a sealer. If the Big 12 expands back to 12 or more then you will be secure. It would be impossible to place two more teams and even though 8 of 12 votes is still 75%, I would think that any chance of a bolt from a 12 team conference would be extemely unlikely. I personally believe the reason Texas wants to hold at 10 for now is because they do not want to close out their option to move. JR

Two questions:

1) Why would four 16 team conferences be the objective?

2) Where do you get this ND to the Big 10 stuff?
05-08-2012 11:58 AM
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Post: #48
RE: Big XII makes TV deal official
(05-08-2012 11:58 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(05-08-2012 08:52 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-07-2012 09:51 PM)Sammy11 Wrote:  
(05-07-2012 09:34 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-07-2012 03:23 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  $200 M/year for 13 years. GOR to be extended to match TV deal.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball...pnfox-deal

So for any of you who think the PAC is going to add Texas and OK anytime soon, forget it. The Big XII is now stable for at least a decade.
I'm not saying it will happen, but....................................................
If they vote to disband the grant of rights is void. The TV contract too.
As in life, nothing is certain, but uncertainty. JR
Big 12 is incorporated in Maryland which usually requires a 51% dissolution vote. However it could have been set to different terms in the articles of incorporation and some have reported it requiring 75%.

So you'd need 6 votes or 8 depending on articles of incorporation as it would either set 75% or Md law would automatically set 51%.

Texoma 4- say they do a 180 to the now similar paying PAC 12
Wvu- Say the SEC grabs them

After those 5, who else? Nobody is likely going to be taking KU, KSU, ISU, BU, TCU.

The Big 12 could offer BYU, Boise, UH, and Louisville all sports and no big east threat.

The ACC and B1G passed on the forgotten 4 and TCU before. SEC already has a share of the KC market with MU. They likely look east. PAC would be full.

It is doubtful that you'd get six votes to disband EVEN IF the SEC or ACC was to grab WVU. If the cut was 75% it's a nonstarter.

Fact is schools don't sign for 13 years if they are looking around. If we add two or more schools as many expect there won't be any way out.

Thanks for the response Sammy11 that's what I like about your posts. You are precise and informed. Whether there are enough votes is one issue and there is a second, so let's take issue #1. All of this is of course is hypothetical, since I wasn't predicting dissolution, just pointing out that it is still possible.

Whether you could get 8 votes to disband depends upon whom might be going where and who might be going with them. Let's say the Big 10 had an opportunity to pick up two AAU schools and a national brand. I could see them taking OU as the national brand to reunite them with Nebraska, and taking Kansas with them (AAU and a great basketball program) picking up ND or Rutgers if the ACC hasn't grabbed the latter, and perhaps consolidating with Iowa State also (AAU). If the Big 10 expands in that direction then Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, and Kansas State could go west. With Oklahoma State and West Virginia to the SEC. That's a scenario in which 8 or even 9 votes could be gotten.

And if four 16 team conferences is the initial objective and the ACC survives and takes two of Rutgers, UConn, or Notre Dame. Then Delany in order to fit his profile would take the remainder of who the ACC couldn't get (likely ND in that case) and expand with good schools. Texas and Oklahoma could be paired in the Big10/PAC partnership.
The SEC would have no eastern targets they could acquire and West Virginia would give them part of the new market area they desire and Oklahoma State would be a solid addition. With the Cowboys secured OU would be free to move to the Big 10.

The second issue you raise is a sealer. If the Big 12 expands back to 12 or more then you will be secure. It would be impossible to place two more teams and even though 8 of 12 votes is still 75%, I would think that any chance of a bolt from a 12 team conference would be extemely unlikely. I personally believe the reason Texas wants to hold at 10 for now is because they do not want to close out their option to move. JR

Two questions:

1) Why would four 16 team conferences be the objective?

2) Where do you get this ND to the Big 10 stuff?

Terry, the whole thread was a hypothetical about how the grant of rights is not necessarily rock solid. A vote to disband voids it. The discussion was about hypothetical scenarios in which 8 or more Big 12 schools might make moves which would be preceded by a vote to disband. The idea being it would take the perfect storm of a move to 4 conferences of 16 to make such a sweeping move possible.

The conference breakdowns were not intended to be anything other than a plausible reason for the move. The original idea of four sixteen team conferences can really only play out equitably if it is the Big 12 that is absorbed. All other scenarios leave the PAC too weak. To admit their is a possibilty, there has to be a potentially acceptable outcome to both the PAC and Big 10 and SEC. The scenrio I provided would meet that hypothetical criteria. A few teams could be rearranged without altering the concept.

The assumption of course regarding the Irish was that should that ever occur they likely would have to choose a conference. For the sake of argument the Big 10 was the arbitrary selection over the ACC, not that it matters to the discussion. Don't be so defensive. If I ever hear anything definite about ND I'll post you, but you will probably already have heard it.

However, the grant of rights as it stands in a ten team Big 12 is not rock solid evidence of their stability. There are sufficient loopholes around it. That is, unless they expand. Expansion makes such a vote, not impossible, but extremely unlikely. JR
05-08-2012 01:45 PM
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TerryD Online
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Post: #49
RE: Big XII makes TV deal official
(05-08-2012 01:45 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-08-2012 11:58 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(05-08-2012 08:52 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-07-2012 09:51 PM)Sammy11 Wrote:  
(05-07-2012 09:34 PM)JRsec Wrote:  I'm not saying it will happen, but....................................................
If they vote to disband the grant of rights is void. The TV contract too.
As in life, nothing is certain, but uncertainty. JR
Big 12 is incorporated in Maryland which usually requires a 51% dissolution vote. However it could have been set to different terms in the articles of incorporation and some have reported it requiring 75%.

So you'd need 6 votes or 8 depending on articles of incorporation as it would either set 75% or Md law would automatically set 51%.

Texoma 4- say they do a 180 to the now similar paying PAC 12
Wvu- Say the SEC grabs them

After those 5, who else? Nobody is likely going to be taking KU, KSU, ISU, BU, TCU.

The Big 12 could offer BYU, Boise, UH, and Louisville all sports and no big east threat.

The ACC and B1G passed on the forgotten 4 and TCU before. SEC already has a share of the KC market with MU. They likely look east. PAC would be full.

It is doubtful that you'd get six votes to disband EVEN IF the SEC or ACC was to grab WVU. If the cut was 75% it's a nonstarter.

Fact is schools don't sign for 13 years if they are looking around. If we add two or more schools as many expect there won't be any way out.

Thanks for the response Sammy11 that's what I like about your posts. You are precise and informed. Whether there are enough votes is one issue and there is a second, so let's take issue #1. All of this is of course is hypothetical, since I wasn't predicting dissolution, just pointing out that it is still possible.

Whether you could get 8 votes to disband depends upon whom might be going where and who might be going with them. Let's say the Big 10 had an opportunity to pick up two AAU schools and a national brand. I could see them taking OU as the national brand to reunite them with Nebraska, and taking Kansas with them (AAU and a great basketball program) picking up ND or Rutgers if the ACC hasn't grabbed the latter, and perhaps consolidating with Iowa State also (AAU). If the Big 10 expands in that direction then Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, and Kansas State could go west. With Oklahoma State and West Virginia to the SEC. That's a scenario in which 8 or even 9 votes could be gotten.

And if four 16 team conferences is the initial objective and the ACC survives and takes two of Rutgers, UConn, or Notre Dame. Then Delany in order to fit his profile would take the remainder of who the ACC couldn't get (likely ND in that case) and expand with good schools. Texas and Oklahoma could be paired in the Big10/PAC partnership.
The SEC would have no eastern targets they could acquire and West Virginia would give them part of the new market area they desire and Oklahoma State would be a solid addition. With the Cowboys secured OU would be free to move to the Big 10.

The second issue you raise is a sealer. If the Big 12 expands back to 12 or more then you will be secure. It would be impossible to place two more teams and even though 8 of 12 votes is still 75%, I would think that any chance of a bolt from a 12 team conference would be extemely unlikely. I personally believe the reason Texas wants to hold at 10 for now is because they do not want to close out their option to move. JR

Two questions:

1) Why would four 16 team conferences be the objective?

2) Where do you get this ND to the Big 10 stuff?

Terry, the whole thread was a hypothetical about how the grant of rights is not necessarily rock solid. A vote to disband voids it. The discussion was about hypothetical scenarios in which 8 or more Big 12 schools might make moves which would be preceded by a vote to disband. The idea being it would take the perfect storm of a move to 4 conferences of 16 to make such a sweeping move possible.

The conference breakdowns were not intended to be anything other than a plausible reason for the move. The original idea of four sixteen team conferences can really only play out equitably if it is the Big 12 that is absorbed. All other scenarios leave the PAC too weak. To admit their is a possibilty, there has to be a potentially acceptable outcome to both the PAC and Big 10 and SEC. The scenrio I provided would meet that hypothetical criteria. A few teams could be rearranged without altering the concept.

The assumption of course regarding the Irish was that should that ever occur they likely would have to choose a conference. For the sake of argument the Big 10 was the arbitrary selection over the ACC, not that it matters to the discussion. Don't be so defensive. If I ever hear anything definite about ND I'll post you, but you will probably already have heard it.

However, the grant of rights as it stands in a ten team Big 12 is not rock solid evidence of their stability. There are sufficient loopholes around it. That is, unless they expand. Expansion makes such a vote, not impossible, but extremely unlikely. JR

I am not being defensive. It is just that many threads assume or throw our scenarios involving ND joining a conference for football as if it is a given fact.

Many also assume as gospel that four conferences of 16 teams each was predestined by the Creator.

I just inquired whether you were making the same assumptions, that is all.

For me, neither is a likely outcome. But, that is just my personal opinion.

I agree that a grant of rights is not "rock solid evidence" of a conference's stability.


P.S. How about a scenario where several conferences dissolve and some of the bigger revenue schools form their own conference?
05-08-2012 03:18 PM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: Big XII makes TV deal official
(05-08-2012 03:18 PM)TerryD Wrote:  P.S. How about a scenario where several conferences dissolve and some of the bigger revenue schools form their own conference?

Won't happen. If you cut the bottom out of every major conference, then someone has to finish last who won't accept finishing last very often. You take Indiana and Minnesota out of the Big Ten, Vandy and the Mississippi schools out of the SEC, and someone still has to finish in last place.

No one wants to compete in a conference of 12 teams comprised of the three strongest programs in each of four conferences. You might as well call that the Coach Killer Conference... "Where coaching careers go to die quickly."
05-08-2012 03:35 PM
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Post: #51
RE: Big XII makes TV deal official
(05-08-2012 03:18 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(05-08-2012 01:45 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-08-2012 11:58 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(05-08-2012 08:52 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-07-2012 09:51 PM)Sammy11 Wrote:  Big 12 is incorporated in Maryland which usually requires a 51% dissolution vote. However it could have been set to different terms in the articles of incorporation and some have reported it requiring 75%.

So you'd need 6 votes or 8 depending on articles of incorporation as it would either set 75% or Md law would automatically set 51%.

Texoma 4- say they do a 180 to the now similar paying PAC 12
Wvu- Say the SEC grabs them

After those 5, who else? Nobody is likely going to be taking KU, KSU, ISU, BU, TCU.

The Big 12 could offer BYU, Boise, UH, and Louisville all sports and no big east threat.

The ACC and B1G passed on the forgotten 4 and TCU before. SEC already has a share of the KC market with MU. They likely look east. PAC would be full.

It is doubtful that you'd get six votes to disband EVEN IF the SEC or ACC was to grab WVU. If the cut was 75% it's a nonstarter.

Fact is schools don't sign for 13 years if they are looking around. If we add two or more schools as many expect there won't be any way out.

Thanks for the response Sammy11 that's what I like about your posts. You are precise and informed. Whether there are enough votes is one issue and there is a second, so let's take issue #1. All of this is of course is hypothetical, since I wasn't predicting dissolution, just pointing out that it is still possible.

Whether you could get 8 votes to disband depends upon whom might be going where and who might be going with them. Let's say the Big 10 had an opportunity to pick up two AAU schools and a national brand. I could see them taking OU as the national brand to reunite them with Nebraska, and taking Kansas with them (AAU and a great basketball program) picking up ND or Rutgers if the ACC hasn't grabbed the latter, and perhaps consolidating with Iowa State also (AAU). If the Big 10 expands in that direction then Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, and Kansas State could go west. With Oklahoma State and West Virginia to the SEC. That's a scenario in which 8 or even 9 votes could be gotten.

And if four 16 team conferences is the initial objective and the ACC survives and takes two of Rutgers, UConn, or Notre Dame. Then Delany in order to fit his profile would take the remainder of who the ACC couldn't get (likely ND in that case) and expand with good schools. Texas and Oklahoma could be paired in the Big10/PAC partnership.
The SEC would have no eastern targets they could acquire and West Virginia would give them part of the new market area they desire and Oklahoma State would be a solid addition. With the Cowboys secured OU would be free to move to the Big 10.

The second issue you raise is a sealer. If the Big 12 expands back to 12 or more then you will be secure. It would be impossible to place two more teams and even though 8 of 12 votes is still 75%, I would think that any chance of a bolt from a 12 team conference would be extemely unlikely. I personally believe the reason Texas wants to hold at 10 for now is because they do not want to close out their option to move. JR

Two questions:

1) Why would four 16 team conferences be the objective?

2) Where do you get this ND to the Big 10 stuff?

Terry, the whole thread was a hypothetical about how the grant of rights is not necessarily rock solid. A vote to disband voids it. The discussion was about hypothetical scenarios in which 8 or more Big 12 schools might make moves which would be preceded by a vote to disband. The idea being it would take the perfect storm of a move to 4 conferences of 16 to make such a sweeping move possible.

The conference breakdowns were not intended to be anything other than a plausible reason for the move. The original idea of four sixteen team conferences can really only play out equitably if it is the Big 12 that is absorbed. All other scenarios leave the PAC too weak. To admit their is a possibilty, there has to be a potentially acceptable outcome to both the PAC and Big 10 and SEC. The scenrio I provided would meet that hypothetical criteria. A few teams could be rearranged without altering the concept.

The assumption of course regarding the Irish was that should that ever occur they likely would have to choose a conference. For the sake of argument the Big 10 was the arbitrary selection over the ACC, not that it matters to the discussion. Don't be so defensive. If I ever hear anything definite about ND I'll post you, but you will probably already have heard it.

However, the grant of rights as it stands in a ten team Big 12 is not rock solid evidence of their stability. There are sufficient loopholes around it. That is, unless they expand. Expansion makes such a vote, not impossible, but extremely unlikely. JR

I am not being defensive. It is just that many threads assume or throw our scenarios involving ND joining a conference for football as if it is a given fact.

Many also assume as gospel that four conferences of 16 teams each was predestined by the Creator.

I just inquired whether you were making the same assumptions, that is all.

For me, neither is a likely outcome. But, that is just my personal opinion.

I agree that a grant of rights is not "rock solid evidence" of a conference's stability.


P.S. How about a scenario where several conferences dissolve and some of the bigger revenue schools form their own conference?

Terry that talk has been circulating in Alabama for many years. Given the reasons for recent expansion I would not rule it out as an eventuality if the economy gets locked into stagnation for a protracted period of time.

I've never been a supporter of that line of thinking because I believe two terrible results would occur.

First, teams of that pedigree don't like losing and without the supporting cast that many of them are accustomed to having they won't like the parity and losses that only large strong teams will inflict upon one another.

Second, they will lose the majority of viewers that enjoy the dream that one day their small school might upset one of the larger ones. There are a lot more of those guys out there than 24 elite teams could equal with just their fan support, especially after two seasons of beating up on one another. And, its their viewing that drives up ad money which of course pays the bills.

Look at the NFL. There best rating years are when dominant teams emerge, not years in which 10-6 and 9-7 teams make it to the Super Bowl.

I think that the elite would find it lonely, irritating, and unprofitable in a league of just elites. But, that's just my opinion. Thanks, JR
05-08-2012 03:47 PM
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CommuterBob Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Big XII makes TV deal official
(05-08-2012 03:47 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Look at the NFL. There best rating years are when dominant teams emerge, not years in which 10-6 and 9-7 teams make it to the Super Bowl.

Umm...wasn't this past Super Bowl one of the most watched EVER?? And what was the Giants' record [looks it up] 9-7.
(This post was last modified: 05-08-2012 03:54 PM by CommuterBob.)
05-08-2012 03:54 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: Big XII makes TV deal official
(05-08-2012 03:54 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  
(05-08-2012 03:47 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Look at the NFL. There best rating years are when dominant teams emerge, not years in which 10-6 and 9-7 teams make it to the Super Bowl.

Umm...wasn't this past Super Bowl one of the most watched EVER?? And what was the Giants' record [looks it up] 9-7.

It helps when you bring the largest market and 1 year does not a trend make. But your point is evident. JR
05-08-2012 03:57 PM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: Big XII makes TV deal official
(05-08-2012 03:57 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-08-2012 03:54 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  
(05-08-2012 03:47 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Look at the NFL. There best rating years are when dominant teams emerge, not years in which 10-6 and 9-7 teams make it to the Super Bowl.

Umm...wasn't this past Super Bowl one of the most watched EVER?? And what was the Giants' record [looks it up] 9-7.

It helps when you bring the largest market and 1 year does not a trend make. But your point is evident. JR

Given that ESPN is all about NY and Boston pro sports almost 24/7, it is no surprise to anyone that they whipped up big ratings for a Giants-Patriots Super Bowl.
05-08-2012 04:18 PM
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CommuterBob Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Big XII makes TV deal official
(05-08-2012 03:57 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-08-2012 03:54 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  
(05-08-2012 03:47 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Look at the NFL. There best rating years are when dominant teams emerge, not years in which 10-6 and 9-7 teams make it to the Super Bowl.

Umm...wasn't this past Super Bowl one of the most watched EVER?? And what was the Giants' record [looks it up] 9-7.

It helps when you bring the largest market and 1 year does not a trend make. But your point is evident. JR

2011 Super Bowl featured a 10-6 Green Bay team - the smallest market in the NFL.
2009 Super Bowl featured a 9-7 Arizona Cardinals team - with one of the smallest followings in all the NFL.

Shall I go on? It's not just a 1-year trend. The Super Bowl is what it is and everybody watches, regardless of who's in it.
05-09-2012 03:41 PM
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joe4psu Offline
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RE: Big XII makes TV deal official
(05-08-2012 03:35 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(05-08-2012 03:18 PM)TerryD Wrote:  P.S. How about a scenario where several conferences dissolve and some of the bigger revenue schools form their own conference?

Won't happen. If you cut the bottom out of every major conference, then someone has to finish last who won't accept finishing last very often. You take Indiana and Minnesota out of the Big Ten, Vandy and the Mississippi schools out of the SEC, and someone still has to finish in last place.

No one wants to compete in a conference of 12 teams comprised of the three strongest programs in each of four conferences. You might as well call that the Coach Killer Conference... "Where coaching careers go to die quickly."

Very important point. This is one reason why I still believe that we are more likely to see 5 or 6 conferences made up of 12 to 16 schools break away or reclassify than to have some neat and tidy 4x16 set up. No current AQ schools would be left behind. Well, possibly a couple of nBE schools could be. Plus, to help the IU's and Minny's I see this group continuing to play the schools left behind.
05-10-2012 05:22 AM
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