(05-07-2012 03:33 PM)Campaign4Liberty Wrote:  A cultural oddity in the middle of the Bible belt deep south? Check out this link and tell me again how a conservative Christian school is a cultural oddity in the Sun Belt?

http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/result...t/map.html

Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Tennessee, Alabama, Georgia, Kentucky...all voted McCain in 2008 and that was after 8 years of a horrible Bush presidency (even Liberty types were not a Bush fan as he was about as big government as they come)...and they still voted McCain. Now let us keep in mind Marco Rubio recently won a Florida senate seat and my guess is that in November Florida goes to Romney, making EVERY SINGLE current Sun Belt state a "red" state.

Again tell me how it is that we, the world's largest Christian affiliated school, would be a cultural oddity in a conference where EVERY SINGLE state of conference membership voted Republican in the 2008 election?

You're a private religious affiliated institution looking to join a group of larger public institutions many of which, despite being located in southern states, are fairly liberal institutions(as public universities tend to be).

It has every bit as much to do with you being private as it does with your being religiously affiliated. Private schools are run differently than public schools, religiously affiliated private schools even more so. The fact that most residents of the states our schools are located in would identify themselves as Christian has nothing to do with this discussion.

(05-07-2012 03:37 PM)CAJUNNATION Wrote:  SBC-16


WEST

New Mexico State
Texas State
UT-Arlington
Oral Roberts
Arkansas State
UALR
ULM
Louisiana



EAST

South Alabama
Troy
Middle Tennessee
WKU
Appalachain State
Georgia State
Georgia Southern
Florida Atlantic

13 football schools(8 in one division, 5 in the other) 3 non-football schools.

FloridaJag approves this post.

(05-07-2012 03:29 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(05-07-2012 03:23 PM)knucklehead Wrote:  

(05-07-2012 03:20 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(05-07-2012 03:15 PM)knucklehead Wrote:  It seems as though you are hung up on not fitting geographically. What about his points about Liberty and Money, growth, fanbase, Media Market, etc?

If you had all that going for you and were either more reasonably within footprint or a large public institution(let alone both) you'd probably be a lock, but you have little in common with the whole of our current membership and you're just too far out there.

Good luck to you in your future endeavors and if the Sun Belt finds itself needing more members after App and Southern who appear to be inbound, we can revisit this conversation, though if the Sun Belt were to have further defections, odds are pretty high that MT will be one of the ones leaving, so it won't matter nearly as much to me....

Well stated. See you see the merit of LU as an Athletics Program on the rise. I am confident that if Sun Belt is not the right fit, somewhere is. Our Admin will find the fit.

Oh I have no doubt Liberty could be a decent FBS football program. You have plenty going for you and while I don't think the Baptist angle and the large online student base angle are as big of an advantage as some of your fans do, I do think they are both advantages.

If Liberty is passed over, in the meantime if you continue your growth you have the opportunity to pad your resume with FCS success, especially if App and Southern are indeed Sun Belt bound.

I hear you, I just feel like this will happen sooner rather than later. No insider info, just a feeling. I am confident that there is more inside talk going on than any of us know about.

(05-07-2012 03:38 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(05-07-2012 03:33 PM)Campaign4Liberty Wrote:  A cultural oddity in the middle of the Bible belt deep south? Check out this link and tell me again how a conservative Christian school is a cultural oddity in the Sun Belt?

http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/result...t/map.html

Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Tennessee, Alabama, Georgia, Kentucky...all voted McCain in 2008 and that was after 8 years of a horrible Bush presidency (even Liberty types were not a Bush fan as he was about as big government as they come)...and they still voted McCain. Now let us keep in mind Marco Rubio recently won a Florida senate seat and my guess is that in November Florida goes to Romney, making EVERY SINGLE current Sun Belt state a "red" state.

Again tell me how it is that we, the world's largest Christian affiliated school, would be a cultural oddity in a conference where EVERY SINGLE state of conference membership voted Republican in the 2008 election?

You're a private religious affiliated institution looking to join a group of larger public institutions many of which, despite being located in southern states, are fairly liberal institutions(as public universities tend to be).

It has every bit as much to do with you being private as it does with your being religiously affiliated. Private schools are run differently than public schools, religiously affiliated private schools even more so. The fact that most residents of the states our schools are located in would identify themselves as Christian has nothing to do with this discussion.

It would seem that Liberty has painted itself in a corner best served by the Southern Conference but has BCS dreams. The difference between Liberty and BYU and Notre Dame is that Notre Dame is the school and football team most Catholics historically identified with especially in the Midwest and Northeast. BYU by the same token is the school and football team of Mormons. Liberty is not the school and football team of Southern Protestants or Evangelicals. So there is no clamor across all of those Southern states for Baptists to see "their team". So it is going to be difficult for an institution like Liberty to get added to any conference of big public diverse schools.

(05-07-2012 03:38 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(05-07-2012 03:33 PM)Campaign4Liberty Wrote:  A cultural oddity in the middle of the Bible belt deep south? Check out this link and tell me again how a conservative Christian school is a cultural oddity in the Sun Belt?

http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/result...t/map.html

Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Tennessee, Alabama, Georgia, Kentucky...all voted McCain in 2008 and that was after 8 years of a horrible Bush presidency (even Liberty types were not a Bush fan as he was about as big government as they come)...and they still voted McCain. Now let us keep in mind Marco Rubio recently won a Florida senate seat and my guess is that in November Florida goes to Romney, making EVERY SINGLE current Sun Belt state a "red" state.

Again tell me how it is that we, the world's largest Christian affiliated school, would be a cultural oddity in a conference where EVERY SINGLE state of conference membership voted Republican in the 2008 election?

You're a private religious affiliated institution looking to join a group of larger public institutions many of which, despite being located in southern states, are fairly liberal institutions(as public universities tend to be).

It has every bit as much to do with you being private as it does with your being religiously affiliated. Private schools are run differently than public schools, religiously affiliated private schools even more so. The fact that most residents of the states our schools are located in would identify themselves as Christian has nothing to do with this discussion.

See, I guess I don't see the deliniation you see. Wake Forest (Baptist/Private) Boston College (Jesuit/Private) are both in the ACC and BC couldn't be more out of the original ACC footprint. Things change.

(05-07-2012 03:38 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(05-07-2012 03:33 PM)Campaign4Liberty Wrote:  A cultural oddity in the middle of the Bible belt deep south? Check out this link and tell me again how a conservative Christian school is a cultural oddity in the Sun Belt?

http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/result...t/map.html

Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Tennessee, Alabama, Georgia, Kentucky...all voted McCain in 2008 and that was after 8 years of a horrible Bush presidency (even Liberty types were not a Bush fan as he was about as big government as they come)...and they still voted McCain. Now let us keep in mind Marco Rubio recently won a Florida senate seat and my guess is that in November Florida goes to Romney, making EVERY SINGLE current Sun Belt state a "red" state.

Again tell me how it is that we, the world's largest Christian affiliated school, would be a cultural oddity in a conference where EVERY SINGLE state of conference membership voted Republican in the 2008 election?

You're a private religious affiliated institution looking to join a group of larger public institutions many of which, despite being located in southern states, are fairly liberal institutions(as public universities tend to be).

It has every bit as much to do with you being private as it does with your being religiously affiliated. Private schools are run differently than public schools, religiously affiliated private schools even more so. The fact that most residents of the states our schools are located in would identify themselves as Christian has nothing to do with this discussion.

Try again.

Every single BCS conference has a mix of public and private universities. Baylor seems to do quite alright in the Big 12 despite their religious affiliation and Notre Dame would be a welcome addition to any conference. How about Villanova, which as we all know is Catholic and in the Big East? St. Johns anyone? Boston College in the ACC? As the northeast is predominantly catholic, catholic universities such as these are a great cultural fit and they fit in well with their public counterparts. As Liberty is an evangelical non denominational Christian school it would fit well in a conference located right in the middle of a swath of red states.

These arguments are tiring. The geographic footprint is the best one I've heard yet....but the bottom line is that Houston and SMU just joined the Big East and they're nowhere near it. They will put their money where there mouth is and fly to the northeast if that is what it takes to get into a BCS conference. We are more than willing to do the same in the SBC as we have the ability to do so......

(05-07-2012 03:51 PM)Campaign4Liberty Wrote:  

(05-07-2012 03:38 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(05-07-2012 03:33 PM)Campaign4Liberty Wrote:  A cultural oddity in the middle of the Bible belt deep south? Check out this link and tell me again how a conservative Christian school is a cultural oddity in the Sun Belt?

http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/result...t/map.html

Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Tennessee, Alabama, Georgia, Kentucky...all voted McCain in 2008 and that was after 8 years of a horrible Bush presidency (even Liberty types were not a Bush fan as he was about as big government as they come)...and they still voted McCain. Now let us keep in mind Marco Rubio recently won a Florida senate seat and my guess is that in November Florida goes to Romney, making EVERY SINGLE current Sun Belt state a "red" state.

Again tell me how it is that we, the world's largest Christian affiliated school, would be a cultural oddity in a conference where EVERY SINGLE state of conference membership voted Republican in the 2008 election?

You're a private religious affiliated institution looking to join a group of larger public institutions many of which, despite being located in southern states, are fairly liberal institutions(as public universities tend to be).

It has every bit as much to do with you being private as it does with your being religiously affiliated. Private schools are run differently than public schools, religiously affiliated private schools even more so. The fact that most residents of the states our schools are located in would identify themselves as Christian has nothing to do with this discussion.

Try again.

Every single BCS conference has a mix of public and private universities. Baylor seems to do quite alright in the Big 12 despite their religious affiliation and Notre Dame would be a welcome addition to any conference. How about Villanova, which as we all know is Catholic and in the Big East? St. Johns anyone? Boston College in the ACC? As the northeast is predominantly catholic, catholic universities such as these are a great cultural fit and they fit in well with their public counterparts. As Liberty is an evangelical non denominational Christian school it would fit well in a conference located right in the middle of a swath of red states.

These arguments are tiring. The geographic footprint is the best one I've heard yet....but the bottom line is that Houston and SMU just joined the Big East and they're nowhere near it. They will put their money where there mouth is and fly to the northeast if that is what it takes to get into a BCS conference. We are more than willing to do the same in the SBC as we have the ability to do so......

You will never get 75% of Presidents to vote you in unless we lose 6 members at once

(05-07-2012 01:51 PM)Liberty22 Wrote:  

(05-07-2012 01:45 PM)runamuck Wrote:  

(05-06-2012 10:09 PM)Campaign4Liberty Wrote:  I think everyone here is greatly underestimating Liberty University and what we would bring to a conference like the Sun Belt.

nothing...skimpy on academics and sports both...

Again, fully accreditted by SACS (Southern Association of Colleges and Schools) which decides academic merit, which btw is the same one that accredits Duke, UNC, Florida, Georgia, etc. etc. etc.

Liberty's academics in many areas are likely no different than those at every other school (science and some programs might be problematic for some) and I would be astounded if coursework in accounting, finance, fine arts, etc. was different at all. Obviously, for those of us who have reason to personally be threatened by the perceived political mission of Liberty (includes me) or disagree with same, the academic mission and programs arent going to be viewed in a way that can help us personally or the communities we represent or are a part of. That's not meant as a criticism but a statement of how I feel about Liberty.

Liberty could bring lots of money to the table to have a program with incredible facilities and support to the table. It could, conceivably, as the only evangelical institution at the highest level of competition, have an advantage competitively in recruiting athletes from its target demographic. And those athletes likely wouldn't be considering another Belt program. A ranked program in your conference would help the perception and athletic profile of the conference.

The problem with assessing the potential of Liberty or anyone else without a demonstrated track record is that the potential benefits havent been realized by members of its current conference (BigSouth).Thats not to say they wouldnt materialize, they just havent yet. Georgia State has potential it hasn't had opportunity to show (same with South Alabama). App, GaSou, and even NMSU have shown a history of some success. I disagree with the "market" strategy by itself but it hasn't been tried so it hasnt been unsuccessful yet.

Liberty has great facilities and even potential. There's also a greater risk as well.

(05-07-2012 03:49 PM)panama Wrote:  

(05-07-2012 03:38 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(05-07-2012 03:33 PM)Campaign4Liberty Wrote:  A cultural oddity in the middle of the Bible belt deep south? Check out this link and tell me again how a conservative Christian school is a cultural oddity in the Sun Belt?

http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/result...t/map.html

Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Tennessee, Alabama, Georgia, Kentucky...all voted McCain in 2008 and that was after 8 years of a horrible Bush presidency (even Liberty types were not a Bush fan as he was about as big government as they come)...and they still voted McCain. Now let us keep in mind Marco Rubio recently won a Florida senate seat and my guess is that in November Florida goes to Romney, making EVERY SINGLE current Sun Belt state a "red" state.

Again tell me how it is that we, the world's largest Christian affiliated school, would be a cultural oddity in a conference where EVERY SINGLE state of conference membership voted Republican in the 2008 election?

You're a private religious affiliated institution looking to join a group of larger public institutions many of which, despite being located in southern states, are fairly liberal institutions(as public universities tend to be).

It has every bit as much to do with you being private as it does with your being religiously affiliated. Private schools are run differently than public schools, religiously affiliated private schools even more so. The fact that most residents of the states our schools are located in would identify themselves as Christian has nothing to do with this discussion.

It would seem that Liberty has painted itself in a corner best served by the Southern Conference but has BCS dreams. The difference between Liberty and BYU and Notre Dame is that Notre Dame is the school and football team most Catholics historically identified with especially in the Midwest and Northeast. BYU by the same token is the school and football team of Mormons. Liberty is not the school and football team of Southern Protestants or Evangelicals. So there is no clamor across all of those Southern states for Baptists to see "their team". So it is going to be difficult for an institution like Liberty to get added to any conference of big public diverse schools.

You're right. We aren't there yet. That is where we want to go. We want to be THE school for protestants everywhere to root for and get behind. We need an FBS invite to do so. Once we do, the sky is the limit. And with regards to size - we have 13,000 kids here on our way to 25,000 and would be the 5th largest SBC school at that size. This is not a small bible college - 7,000 acre campus in the middle of a 225 million dollar renovation. Our basketball arena is currently larger than all but 5 SBC schools.........

(05-07-2012 03:59 PM)Campaign4Liberty Wrote:  

(05-07-2012 03:49 PM)panama Wrote:  

(05-07-2012 03:38 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(05-07-2012 03:33 PM)Campaign4Liberty Wrote:  A cultural oddity in the middle of the Bible belt deep south? Check out this link and tell me again how a conservative Christian school is a cultural oddity in the Sun Belt?

http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/result...t/map.html

Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Tennessee, Alabama, Georgia, Kentucky...all voted McCain in 2008 and that was after 8 years of a horrible Bush presidency (even Liberty types were not a Bush fan as he was about as big government as they come)...and they still voted McCain. Now let us keep in mind Marco Rubio recently won a Florida senate seat and my guess is that in November Florida goes to Romney, making EVERY SINGLE current Sun Belt state a "red" state.

Again tell me how it is that we, the world's largest Christian affiliated school, would be a cultural oddity in a conference where EVERY SINGLE state of conference membership voted Republican in the 2008 election?

You're a private religious affiliated institution looking to join a group of larger public institutions many of which, despite being located in southern states, are fairly liberal institutions(as public universities tend to be).

It has every bit as much to do with you being private as it does with your being religiously affiliated. Private schools are run differently than public schools, religiously affiliated private schools even more so. The fact that most residents of the states our schools are located in would identify themselves as Christian has nothing to do with this discussion.

It would seem that Liberty has painted itself in a corner best served by the Southern Conference but has BCS dreams. The difference between Liberty and BYU and Notre Dame is that Notre Dame is the school and football team most Catholics historically identified with especially in the Midwest and Northeast. BYU by the same token is the school and football team of Mormons. Liberty is not the school and football team of Southern Protestants or Evangelicals. So there is no clamor across all of those Southern states for Baptists to see "their team". So it is going to be difficult for an institution like Liberty to get added to any conference of big public diverse schools.

You're right. We aren't there yet. That is where we want to go. We want to be THE school for protestants everywhere to root for and get behind. We need an FBS invite to do so. Once we do, the sky is the limit. And with regards to size - we have 13,000 kids here on our way to 25,000 and would be the 5th largest SBC school at that size. This is not a small bible college - 7,000 acre campus in the middle of a 225 million dollar renovation. Our basketball arena is currently larger than all but 5 SBC schools.........

Its not your size that would keep you out. Like has already been said by others, its the intransigent some would say politco-religious leaning that would keep you out. Presidents vote but are answerable to alumni and students and the extended community. There are plenty of folks even in the South who might start asking who voted yes and who voted no. Again, cultural fit is a big deal. And yes much has been made of Wake Forest and a few others but how often do we think of Wake think religious institution first. With Liberty that is always what comes to mind first and really of a particular brand of Christianity. So you may be in a case where you cannot have your cake and eat it to. Perhaps a decision has to be made between the mission and on the field glory. After all, even Notre Dame inst Notre Dame anymore.

(05-07-2012 03:51 PM)Campaign4Liberty Wrote:  

(05-07-2012 03:38 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(05-07-2012 03:33 PM)Campaign4Liberty Wrote:  A cultural oddity in the middle of the Bible belt deep south? Check out this link and tell me again how a conservative Christian school is a cultural oddity in the Sun Belt?

http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/result...t/map.html

Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Tennessee, Alabama, Georgia, Kentucky...all voted McCain in 2008 and that was after 8 years of a horrible Bush presidency (even Liberty types were not a Bush fan as he was about as big government as they come)...and they still voted McCain. Now let us keep in mind Marco Rubio recently won a Florida senate seat and my guess is that in November Florida goes to Romney, making EVERY SINGLE current Sun Belt state a "red" state.

Again tell me how it is that we, the world's largest Christian affiliated school, would be a cultural oddity in a conference where EVERY SINGLE state of conference membership voted Republican in the 2008 election?

You're a private religious affiliated institution looking to join a group of larger public institutions many of which, despite being located in southern states, are fairly liberal institutions(as public universities tend to be).

It has every bit as much to do with you being private as it does with your being religiously affiliated. Private schools are run differently than public schools, religiously affiliated private schools even more so. The fact that most residents of the states our schools are located in would identify themselves as Christian has nothing to do with this discussion.

Try again.

Every single BCS conference has a mix of public and private universities. Baylor seems to do quite alright in the Big 12 despite their religious affiliation and Notre Dame would be a welcome addition to any conference. How about Villanova, which as we all know is Catholic and in the Big East? St. Johns anyone? Boston College in the ACC? As the northeast is predominantly catholic, catholic universities such as these are a great cultural fit and they fit in well with their public counterparts. As Liberty is an evangelical non denominational Christian school it would fit well in a conference located right in the middle of a swath of red states.

These arguments are tiring. The geographic footprint is the best one I've heard yet....but the bottom line is that Houston and SMU just joined the Big East and they're nowhere near it. They will put their money where there mouth is and fly to the northeast if that is what it takes to get into a BCS conference. We are more than willing to do the same in the SBC as we have the ability to do so......

Trust me, we are much more tired of your bloviating Law School dean and your sanctimonious bashing of everyone who doesn't live by your moral rules. Google Sean Harris of Berean Church in Fayetteville, NC to see what we see your 'institution' produces

Liberty IMHO isn't an educational institution. It is a political organization and a church.

We don't have to align with Liberty. And even if we say, 'hell no' because of Liberty's political activism, its our right to do so.

Openly Gay persons, Jews, Muslims, and Athiests, can teach and attend and participate in athletics at every single FBS program except BYU and Baylor. Attempting to equate Liberty and Wake Forest as similar institutions because they are both religiously affilliated is like trying to equate Westboro Baptist and the Episcopal Church because they are both Christian.

Besides, since Liberty loves to fire people for being Gay and not-Christian, why would they choose in this case to align themselves with schools that don't automatically fire people because they are Gay. Why accept associating with Gay people in this case, and oppose it in the military.

My opposition is directly related to Liberty's policies. They can teach that Gay people should be treated like they rape children or molest dogs all they want to. But they can do so elsewhere.

Besides, you are outside of our footprint. You are private (and VERY private). You discriminate. Your institution, and especially your LAW school is engaged in the worst kind of political and judicial activism imaginable.

Liberty doesn't allow Gay people, Muslims, or non-Christians to play for their athletic teams. I think that a team committed to excellence would be able to recruit talent that wasn't just extreme fundamentalists.

No thanks. Liberty. We aren't interested. Because you aren't insterested in recruiting the best talent.

Perhaps I can put this better in language you can understand. I don't hate the sinner (Liberty)...I hate the sin (discrimination).

I don't want Sun Belt games to be turned into religious functions. You bring nothing besides acrimony.

(05-07-2012 04:25 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Liberty doesn't allow Gay people, Muslims, or non-Christians to play for their athletic teams. I think that a team committed to excellence would be able to recruit talent that wasn't just extreme fundamentalists.

No thanks. Liberty. We aren't interested. Because you aren't insterested in recruiting the best talent.

We don't allow non-Christians to play for our athletic teams? Is that so? And you are so close to Liberty that you know all about who plays for which teams and so forth? We don't recruit the best talent? Is that so? I can name 3 programs on our campus right now who could come into the Sun Belt and blow doors off anyone in the league. Men's track has been 12th at NCAA's....a legitimate top 15 program. No talent? How about our golf team...currently ranked 31st in the country and ranked better than any SBC school...no talent? I could go on and on.

Your arguments are void of fact and are a simple rehash of talking points you've heard along the way.

(05-07-2012 03:58 PM)AlaIllTex Wrote:  

(05-07-2012 01:51 PM)Liberty22 Wrote:  

(05-07-2012 01:45 PM)runamuck Wrote:  

(05-06-2012 10:09 PM)Campaign4Liberty Wrote:  I think everyone here is greatly underestimating Liberty University and what we would bring to a conference like the Sun Belt.

nothing...skimpy on academics and sports both...

Again, fully accreditted by SACS (Southern Association of Colleges and Schools) which decides academic merit, which btw is the same one that accredits Duke, UNC, Florida, Georgia, etc. etc. etc.

Liberty's academics in many areas are likely no different than those at every other school (science and some programs might be problematic for some) and I would be astounded if coursework in accounting, finance, fine arts, etc. was different at all. Obviously, for those of us who have reason to personally be threatened by the perceived political mission of Liberty (includes me) or disagree with same, the academic mission and programs arent going to be viewed in a way that can help us personally or the communities we represent or are a part of. That's not meant as a criticism but a statement of how I feel about Liberty.

Liberty could bring lots of money to the table to have a program with incredible facilities and support to the table. It could, conceivably, as the only evangelical institution at the highest level of competition, have an advantage competitively in recruiting athletes from its target demographic. And those athletes likely wouldn't be considering another Belt program. A ranked program in your conference would help the perception and athletic profile of the conference.

The problem with assessing the potential of Liberty or anyone else without a demonstrated track record is that the potential benefits havent been realized by members of its current conference (BigSouth).Thats not to say they wouldnt materialize, they just havent yet. Georgia State has potential it hasn't had opportunity to show (same with South Alabama). App, GaSou, and even NMSU have shown a history of some success. I disagree with the "market" strategy by itself but it hasn't been tried so it hasnt been unsuccessful yet.

Liberty has great facilities and even potential. There's also a greater risk as well.

THIS.. If Liberty would be such a transformative addition to the Sun Belt, then why haven't they done squat for the Big South?

What haven't we done for the Big South? We dominate the conference and put the Big South on the map in all sports, especially Women's basketball, volleyball, men's track and field, golf, swimming, etc. Stony Brook and Liberty have represented the Big South very well in Football and Coastal Carolina and Liberty are the only two respected teams in the league in baseball year in and year out.

We set the standard for the Big South, not only in facilities but overall budgets as well.

http://www.flashresults.com/2011_Meets/o...Scores.htm

Results from Men's NCAA's last year...Track and Field. The only reason anyone from Texas A&M or any other top 15 school has heard of the Big South is because of Liberty. How about football beating Ball State last year and earning a boatload of respect from NCState fans after playing them very tough? The list goes on....

Please, present facts!

(05-07-2012 04:33 PM)Campaign4Liberty Wrote:  

(05-07-2012 04:25 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Liberty doesn't allow Gay people, Muslims, or non-Christians to play for their athletic teams. I think that a team committed to excellence would be able to recruit talent that wasn't just extreme fundamentalists.

No thanks. Liberty. We aren't interested. Because you aren't insterested in recruiting the best talent.

We don't allow non-Christians to play for our athletic teams? Is that so? And you are so close to Liberty that you know all about who plays for which teams and so forth? We don't recruit the best talent? Is that so? I can name 3 programs on our campus right now who could come into the Sun Belt and blow doors off anyone in the league. Men's track has been 12th at NCAA's....a legitimate top 15 program. No talent? How about our golf team...currently ranked 31st in the country and ranked better than any SBC school...no talent? I could go on and on.

Your arguments are void of fact and are a simple rehash of talking points you've heard along the way.

You MUST be a professing fundamentalist to attend Liberty, so you cannot recruit anyone to be on your teams that is NOT a fundamentalist. You certainly cannot be a coach unless you are a fundamentalist.

I could care less about your track team. Or your golf team. Your not going to 'blow the doors' off the SBC in football or MBB.

And I will bring up your discriminatory policies and your TOXIC politics every chance I see you try to flak Liberty as an acceptable associate of my institution. You can't just say...'lets just get past this'...because Liberty isn't past demeaning Gay people and discriminating.

You don't fit in the Sun Belt anyway.

Look, I know you're tired of this an all, but perhaps my beliefs require me to reach out with truth and love to condemn Liberty's discrimination. (Sound familiar?).

Your talking points are tired too. We all know that Liberty has a decent football stadium. Noted. Don't really care. I don't feel welcome on your campus and don't want to go to backwoods Virginia to go to away games. There's little for Gay people to do there after the games except dodge people firing live ammunition at the area's only Gay bar (several murdered a couple of years back). I'm sure the straight bar scene in Lynchburg is EPIC (sarcasm). I'll bet tailgating at your stadium is EPIC too (sarcasm). Oh great, another friggin dry campus. I can't wait. I'm sure our straight fans would love to search around for a glimpse of hot ankle that might not be covered by your female fans.

At least Harrisonburg is a real college town. And much prettier. If we go to Virginia, which I don't really want to do, I'm for JMU.

And by the way, I lived in Virginia for 4 years. It can be much more backwards than Texas or Alabama.

I vote for 1) App State 2) Georgia Southern then stopping. If we need another team, here's the order.

3) NM State
4) James Madison
5) Stay at under 12 teams.

(05-07-2012 04:46 PM)Campaign4Liberty Wrote:  What haven't we done for the Big South? We dominate the conference and put the Big South on the map in all sports, especially Women's basketball, volleyball, men's track and field, golf, swimming, etc. Stony Brook and Liberty have represented the Big South very well in Football and Coastal Carolina and Liberty are the only two respected teams in the league in baseball year in and year out.

We set the standard for the Big South, not only in facilities but overall budgets as well.

http://www.flashresults.com/2011_Meets/o...Scores.htm

Results from Men's NCAA's last year...Track and Field. The only reason anyone from Texas A&M or any other top 15 school has heard of the Big South is because of Liberty. How about football beating Ball State last year and earning a boatload of respect from NCState fans after playing them very tough? The list goes on....

Please, present facts!

Ask 1,000 Texas A&M fans to name one Big South institution....I'd be surprised if 10 could name any of the institutions in the Big South. Its not like you've made the Big South into a household name.

Again, you aren't a geographic fit. You aren't a cultural fit (does anyone want to go tailgate at Liberty that isn't a fundamentalist?). You aren't the best FCS program available. You advocate toxic politics that are impossible to separate from your institution. You discriminate. Your founder and president outed a teletubby as some sort of Gay activist because it carried something that looked like a purse. I didn't realize that teletubbies had genitals.

Congrats on beating Ball State. Perhaps you could take your game to the MAC.

(05-07-2012 04:10 PM)panama Wrote:  

(05-07-2012 03:59 PM)Campaign4Liberty Wrote:  

(05-07-2012 03:49 PM)panama Wrote:  

(05-07-2012 03:38 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(05-07-2012 03:33 PM)Campaign4Liberty Wrote:  A cultural oddity in the middle of the Bible belt deep south? Check out this link and tell me again how a conservative Christian school is a cultural oddity in the Sun Belt?

http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/result...t/map.html

Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Tennessee, Alabama, Georgia, Kentucky...all voted McCain in 2008 and that was after 8 years of a horrible Bush presidency (even Liberty types were not a Bush fan as he was about as big government as they come)...and they still voted McCain. Now let us keep in mind Marco Rubio recently won a Florida senate seat and my guess is that in November Florida goes to Romney, making EVERY SINGLE current Sun Belt state a "red" state.

Again tell me how it is that we, the world's largest Christian affiliated school, would be a cultural oddity in a conference where EVERY SINGLE state of conference membership voted Republican in the 2008 election?

You're a private religious affiliated institution looking to join a group of larger public institutions many of which, despite being located in southern states, are fairly liberal institutions(as public universities tend to be).

It has every bit as much to do with you being private as it does with your being religiously affiliated. Private schools are run differently than public schools, religiously affiliated private schools even more so. The fact that most residents of the states our schools are located in would identify themselves as Christian has nothing to do with this discussion.

It would seem that Liberty has painted itself in a corner best served by the Southern Conference but has BCS dreams. The difference between Liberty and BYU and Notre Dame is that Notre Dame is the school and football team most Catholics historically identified with especially in the Midwest and Northeast. BYU by the same token is the school and football team of Mormons. Liberty is not the school and football team of Southern Protestants or Evangelicals. So there is no clamor across all of those Southern states for Baptists to see "their team". So it is going to be difficult for an institution like Liberty to get added to any conference of big public diverse schools.

You're right. We aren't there yet. That is where we want to go. We want to be THE school for protestants everywhere to root for and get behind. We need an FBS invite to do so. Once we do, the sky is the limit. And with regards to size - we have 13,000 kids here on our way to 25,000 and would be the 5th largest SBC school at that size. This is not a small bible college - 7,000 acre campus in the middle of a 225 million dollar renovation. Our basketball arena is currently larger than all but 5 SBC schools.........

Its not your size that would keep you out. Like has already been said by others, its the intransigent some would say politco-religious leaning that would keep you out. Presidents vote but are answerable to alumni and students and the extended community. There are plenty of folks even in the South who might start asking who voted yes and who voted no. Again, cultural fit is a big deal. And yes much has been made of Wake Forest and a few others but how often do we think of Wake think religious institution first. With Liberty that is always what comes to mind first and really of a particular brand of Christianity. So you may be in a case where you cannot have your cake and eat it to. Perhaps a decision has to be made between the mission and on the field glory. After all, even Notre Dame inst Notre Dame anymore.

I assure you that that will not happen, if it did, the growth would end.

We just want a chance, not a lecture. Thanks!

Tom,

I can tell you that this statement is entirely untrue -

"You MUST be a professing fundamentalist to attend Liberty, so you cannot recruit anyone to be on your teams that is NOT a fundamentalist. You certainly cannot be a coach unless you are a fundamentalist."

Not sure where you heard that but it is simply not true. Be careful not to confuse what you've "heard" about Liberty with what is actually true.

Absolutely right. If you came to LU for a visit, your opinion would soften considerably. There is so much misinformation out there.

(05-07-2012 07:09 PM)Campaign4Liberty Wrote:  Tom,

I can tell you that this statement is entirely untrue -

"You MUST be a professing fundamentalist to attend Liberty, so you cannot recruit anyone to be on your teams that is NOT a fundamentalist. You certainly cannot be a coach unless you are a fundamentalist."

Not sure where you heard that but it is simply not true. Be careful not to confuse what you've "heard" about Liberty with what is actually true.

You MUST be a fundamentalist to be employed at Liberty. How many secular student/athletes do you have a Liberty. Understand that the fastest growing religious preference in this nation is 'decline to state/none'. I seriuosly doubt you have any student athletes who are not fundamentalist christian.

I have spent YEARS reading about Jerry Falwell and Matt Staver. Don't assume I don't know exactly what Liberty stands for. You might not like how it looks from my viewpoint, but that's your schools problem. You see, unlike in the world of Liberty, people like Gays, non-Christians, Secular people, Democrats, and Scientists actually have opinions that matter.

What does Liberty's game day experience hold for the average college football fan? Can you drink on campus while tailgating? What is the dress code on campus? Would we have to put up with prothelizing while on campus? What does Lynchburg have for the average Sun Belt college fan? Any rockin' bars? I'm not looking to go have fellowship with a bunch of fundys who hate me (definition of hatred - lying about my people by comparing me to pedophiles or saying that I am somehow responsible for 9-11 or advocating public policy discrimination). Liberty has made it CRYSTAL clear that their policies are not open for debate. I also don't think that Joe "Sun Belt" fan want to go to a church service or a Republican party rally after a football game. Most of us want to have some alcohol, some good food, and probably some good natured attempts to pick up someone (or for the married ones - pretend to do so).

You have nothing for us. You aren't a geographic fit. You aren't a cultural fit. You aren't an educational fit. You aren't the best FCS program available. Your coach was an epic failure. You don't recruit non-fundamentalists or liberal athletes. Liberals or even moderates cannot be employed there. Your founder was a sanctamonius blowhard who was an embarrasment to the entire concept of education and science. Your law school dean is almost as bad. Your facilities are better than average for a Sun Belt team (but aren't as good as Appy's or JMU's). You haven't transformed the conference you currently play in. Your polices are toxic. Your politics are worse. You aren't a fit. Period.