(04-24-2012 09:09 PM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  

(04-24-2012 04:11 PM)omniorange Wrote:  

(04-24-2012 01:02 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(04-24-2012 12:13 PM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  Over the weekend I went to bat for Syracuse when someone made a remark about their average SAT scores. Then I ran the numbers....

Rank / School / Avg SAT*
1 / Duke / 1440
2 / BC / 1350
2 / UVA / 1350
4 / GTech / 1335
5 / UMD / 1325
6 / Wake / 1320
7 / UNC / 1305
8 / Miami / 1295
9 / Pitt / 1260
10 / Clem / 1235
11 / VTech / 1220
12 / FSU / 1200
13 / NCState / 1180
14 / Cuse / 1160

Cuse, what happened? Also, we're all getting smoked by Duke.

*I had to use a couple different sources to compile this, so if there's a correction that needs to be made in order to include the most up to date numbers, feel free to make it. To calculate the average, I took the mean of the 25% and 75% scores, Math and Reading sections only.

I'm not sure if your number is correct but Chancy Nancy has lowered admission standards with a feel good social agenda. We'll see if it yields any fruit in 10-20 years.

It's close. In doing it quickly, I got 1170 which is still last. If we required the 2007 numbers we'd have finished tied at 11th with VT at 1220.

Cantor is gambling short-term. Whether or not her strategy will have the long-term benefits she sees, remains in doubt. But if one follows her writings and thoughts on the topic she isn't doing this willy/nilly on a whim. It is a strategy, just a dangerous one that apparently the Board has bought into for the past five years.

How much more leeway she gets remains to be seen. But as long as she and SU together are seen as a vital economic engine for the revitalization of the city of Syracuse, she'll have the community support as well.

In the meantime, being associated with the other fine institutions in the ACC won't hurt.

Cheers,
Neil

So the university president is actively LOWERING admissions standards?

Yes, through an Admissions exceptions policy that allows other criteria to supersede SAT/ACT scores.

Ultimately, in Cantor's mind, how well a student scores on a standardized test doesn't give the entire picture. And I agree. Let's face it, some of the athletes that stay on and graduate wouldn't have gotten in to play for our ACC institutions if they had to meet the standards of the regular admissions policy.

The key marker to watch is not the lowering of the admissions scores, but how the 4-year and 6-year graduation percentages are impacted. For SU the most recent figures are 72% and 82% respectively. For NC State, the most recent figures are 42% and 73%.

Six years out from now, how will those figures be? Since the downturn began in 2009, I believe, we'll likely know in about another 4 years.

Cheers,
Neil

(04-24-2012 09:30 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  Ok, here are the most recent average SAT scores as calculated by the OP...

1. Duke 1475
2. Georgia Tech 1355
3. Boston College 1350
3. Virginia 1350
5. Miami 1315
5. Wake Forest 1315
7. UNC 1300
8. Maryland 1290
9. Pitt 1275
10. Clemson 1235
11. Virginia Tech 1210
12. Florida State 1200
13. NC State 1185
14. Syracuse 1160

Conference average: 1286.8
Conference median: 1295

Not sure where you got 1290, but I used UMD's own numbers (1250-1400)
http://www.admissions.umd.edu/counselor/...rofile.cfm

(04-24-2012 03:55 PM)WakeForestRanger Wrote:  Wake no longer accepts the SAT.

Wake no longer requires the SAT. They still accept it along with the other required submissions, such as essay, etc.

(04-25-2012 07:55 AM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  Not sure where you got 1290, but I used UMD's own numbers (1250-1400)
http://www.admissions.umd.edu/counselor/...rofile.cfm

Maryland's 2011-12 Common Data Set as reported to Princeton Review. Actually, it looks like UMD updated theirs and it should be 1295. The Common Data Set is considered the official numbers and that is what is used by all published rankings.

The numbers you cited from that website are "admitted students". That is different from the common data set profiles of "enrolled freshman". Admitted students are typically always higher for any school but do not actually represent the population of students that enrolled. For instance, at Pitt, admitted students average SAT is 1310 vs 1275 listed above for the actual enrolled freshman.

(04-25-2012 10:35 AM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(04-25-2012 07:55 AM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  Not sure where you got 1290, but I used UMD's own numbers (1250-1400)
http://www.admissions.umd.edu/counselor/...rofile.cfm

Maryland's 2011-12 Common Data Set as reported to Princeton Review. Actually, it looks like UMD updated theirs and it should be 1295. The Common Data Set is considered the official numbers and that is what is used by all published rankings.

The numbers you cited from that website are "admitted students". That is different from the common data set profiles of "enrolled freshman". Admitted students are typically always higher for any school but do not actually represent the population of students that enrolled. For instance, at Pitt, admitted students average SAT is 1310 vs 1275 listed above for the actual enrolled freshman.

Good catch. A small (but important!) distinction.

SAT's are but one metric used. It isn't the most important however. Having spent 22 years in higher education I can assure you while high SAT averages are nice they are the prime metric they once were considered.

(04-24-2012 10:09 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  Well it looks like my dumb ass couldn't get accepted by any of these fine institutions. lol

The SAT score that got me into Pitt, didn't prevent me from repeating my Freshman year because I spent more time drinking and socializing than I spent studying. SAT scores are nice, but they are hardly the be all and end all.

(04-25-2012 12:12 PM)texasorange Wrote:  SAT's are but one metric used. It isn't the most important however. Having spent 22 years in higher education I can assure you while high SAT averages are nice they are the prime metric they once were considered.

Absolutely.

That's why you have dozens of different rankings with wildly varying results.

SATs really only speak to freshman class selectivity, and how important that is really varies on the institution and the individual that is evaluating the institution. That is why any published ranking uses them as only one of multiple metrics that factor into a ranking, if they use them at all.

Universities are large, complex institutions that typically have multiple missions, including undergraduate education, graduate and professional education, research and development, community service, economic development, and even athletics. Obviously any one area can complement and overlap another.

Any one institution may have different priorities than another. An urban university is going to be more involved than a rural university in its community outreach and development. Duke is going to place more emphasis on research than Boston College, whose Jesuit mission is different than Florida State.

(04-25-2012 12:31 PM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  

(04-24-2012 10:09 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  Well it looks like my dumb ass couldn't get accepted by any of these fine institutions. lol

The SAT score that got me into Pitt, didn't prevent me from repeating my Freshman year because I spent more time drinking and socializing than I spent studying. SAT scores are nice, but they are hardly the be all and end all.

I'm convinced drinking and partying freshman year are the main reasons there is a 6-year graduation rate.

Cheers,
Neil

(04-25-2012 12:31 PM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  

(04-24-2012 10:09 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  Well it looks like my dumb ass couldn't get accepted by any of these fine institutions. lol

The SAT score that got me into Pitt, didn't prevent me from repeating my Freshman year because I spent more time drinking and socializing than I spent studying. SAT scores are nice, but they are hardly the be all and end all.

I'm glad I got my hard drinking out of the way and is 30 now. Currently I'm going to take 2 courses over the summer at CCAC. My SAT average was like 925. lol

I wish the SAT was the only metric they'd use, I coulda gone to Duke Too bad they cared about stuff like GPA and extra curricular activities of which I was seriously lacking....