It's pretty easy to make the call based on personal viewpoint, but I'm not sure how to objectively measure community support for the athletic program at any university. Maybe two areas shed a little light on this subject at least for comparative purposes. These are amount of money generated by tickets sales and amount of money donated to the program. When I looked at these two areas for FY 2010 for the FCS level schools in Tennessee I found the following.
Ticket sales: 1. Tenn State $691,005 2. UTC $614,169 3. ETSU $275,455 4. Tenn Tech $264,080 5. Austin Peay $177,338 6. UT Martin $67,243. I didn't look at Memphis or UTK, but I did take a look at MTSU since it hasn't been at the FBS level that long. MTSU ticket sales for 2010 was $1,467,858. Donations may be a slighly stronger indication of community/alumni support. If that is the case MTSU isn't doing all that well. In 2010 by its own report it raised $186,771. That figure puts it behind the 6 FCS level schools. 1.) UTC $1,017,515 2.) ETSU $919,629 3.) UT Martin $471,540 4.) Tenn Tech $304,789 5.) Austin Peay $278,025 6.) Tenn State $210,171. I thought that it was interesting that UT Martin ranked as high as it did given its very rural location. The $919,629 donated to ETSU made up the largest percentage of its total athletic revenue (8.4%) of any of the 7 schools. Looking at this information, particularly the donation amount, it is difficult for me to conclude that ETSU athletics enjoys less community support than the other FCS-level schools. That's not to say that community involvement and support can't be improved. They certainly can, but all of the regional schools, particulrly those in comparatively small markets, have the same problem regardless of whether they have football or not.

That's one way to look at it.

The other is that if you compare yourself where MTSU and Chattanooga are, that's all you're ever going to be.

(04-20-2012 02:04 PM)PittsburghBucs Wrote:  That's one way to look at it.

The other is that if you compare yourself where MTSU and Chattanooga are, that's all you're ever going to be.

I would be thrilled to be comparing our athletic program with MTSU --- as well as Chattanooga. MTSU went off and left us and we went off and dropped several notches below Chattanooga. Please give us just ONE regional state university that has fallen behind ETSU athletics over the past ten years so that we can look down on them and feel a little better about our sorry, low down situation.

I can see your point, but what I'm saying is that I'd rather be comparing ETSU to Tennessee and Virginia Tech.

And to a certain extent MTSU, too. But you're putting up Tennessee State and Austin Peay and schools like that in comparison as well.

(04-20-2012 08:08 PM)PittsburghBucs Wrote:  I can see your point, but what I'm saying is that I'd rather be comparing ETSU to Tennessee and Virginia Tech.

And to a certain extent MTSU, too. But you're putting up Tennessee State and Austin Peay and schools like that in comparison as well.

Pointless at this point in the process.

Long range goals aren't a good thing, 22?

All I'm saying is that if you continually compare yourself in revenue and attendance to Austin Peay and Chattanooga, that's all you'll ever be.

If you, instead, make a goal of trying to lure 10,000 fans to each and every Bucs men's basketball game (I know, a lot to ask, but with the seating capacity and some past history no more out of the question than asking your son to graduate at the top of his class), suddenly you're not playing on the level of Tennessee Tech, you're playing at the level of UT and VPI.

But we don't have that. We have David Mullins saying how Stanton's proposed new facilities have "challenged us." We have "the days of mid-majors drawing 10,000 fans a game are over."

Ever think then of trying to advance out of the mid-major ranks and into the major ones?

Ultimately, if ETSU is going to be a player in athletics and really in academics that's what they'll have to do.

(04-21-2012 11:22 AM)PittsburghBucs Wrote:  Long range goals aren't a good thing, 22?

All I'm saying is that if you continually compare yourself in revenue and attendance to Austin Peay and Chattanooga, that's all you'll ever be.

If you, instead, make a goal of trying to lure 10,000 fans to each and every Bucs men's basketball game (I know, a lot to ask, but with the seating capacity and some past history no more out of the question than asking your son to graduate at the top of his class), suddenly you're not playing on the level of Tennessee Tech, you're playing at the level of UT and VPI.

But we don't have that. We have David Mullins saying how Stanton's proposed new facilities have "challenged us." We have "the days of mid-majors drawing 10,000 fans a game are over."

Ever think then of trying to advance out of the mid-major ranks and into the major ones?

Ultimately, if ETSU is going to be a player in athletics and really in academics that's what they'll have to do.

Comparing yourself to Austin Peay and UTC is a FAR cry from Tennessee and Va Tech.

A comparison between ETSU and Tennessee/Va Tech is pointless AT THIS POINT. There are few metrics upon which to make a realistic comparison, if any. You do yourself no favors by doing so and your ability to judge real progress is limited.

Comparing yourself to peers and competitors is business 101. An internal assessment of where ETSU is vs. where it was in say 2002, 2003, 2004 is a better starting point RIGHT NOW. If you can't match/beat the numbers you yourself already put up, there's no point in looking at what someone else is doing.

(04-21-2012 02:03 PM)BucNut22 Wrote:  

(04-21-2012 11:22 AM)PittsburghBucs Wrote:  Long range goals aren't a good thing, 22?

All I'm saying is that if you continually compare yourself in revenue and attendance to Austin Peay and Chattanooga, that's all you'll ever be.

If you, instead, make a goal of trying to lure 10,000 fans to each and every Bucs men's basketball game (I know, a lot to ask, but with the seating capacity and some past history no more out of the question than asking your son to graduate at the top of his class), suddenly you're not playing on the level of Tennessee Tech, you're playing at the level of UT and VPI.

But we don't have that. We have David Mullins saying how Stanton's proposed new facilities have "challenged us." We have "the days of mid-majors drawing 10,000 fans a game are over."

Ever think then of trying to advance out of the mid-major ranks and into the major ones?

Ultimately, if ETSU is going to be a player in athletics and really in academics that's what they'll have to do.

Comparing yourself to Austin Peay and UTC is a FAR cry from Tennessee and Va Tech.

A comparison between ETSU and Tennessee/Va Tech is pointless AT THIS POINT. There are few metrics upon which to make a realistic comparison, if any. You do yourself no favors by doing so and your ability to judge real progress is limited.

Comparing yourself to peers and competitors is business 101. An internal assessment of where ETSU is vs. where it was in say 2002, 2003, 2004 is a better starting point RIGHT NOW. If you can't match/beat the numbers you yourself already put up, there's no point in looking at what someone else is doing.

Unfortunately, the first goal of ETSU right now is to get BACK to the level of Austin Peay and Tenn Tech. Currently ETSU is the only state school in TN without a marching band. The front porch is so dimly lit it is hard to even see. Hopefully Dr. Noland can get us back to the FCS level with our peers schools and then we can assess where we want to go from there. First we have to get out of the Stanton/Mullins hole they got us into.

I thought ETSU, VPI, and UT were all Division I schools.

My bad.

(04-21-2012 03:41 PM)bucfan81 Wrote:  

(04-21-2012 02:03 PM)BucNut22 Wrote:  

(04-21-2012 11:22 AM)PittsburghBucs Wrote:  Long range goals aren't a good thing, 22?

All I'm saying is that if you continually compare yourself in revenue and attendance to Austin Peay and Chattanooga, that's all you'll ever be.

If you, instead, make a goal of trying to lure 10,000 fans to each and every Bucs men's basketball game (I know, a lot to ask, but with the seating capacity and some past history no more out of the question than asking your son to graduate at the top of his class), suddenly you're not playing on the level of Tennessee Tech, you're playing at the level of UT and VPI.

But we don't have that. We have David Mullins saying how Stanton's proposed new facilities have "challenged us." We have "the days of mid-majors drawing 10,000 fans a game are over."

Ever think then of trying to advance out of the mid-major ranks and into the major ones?

Ultimately, if ETSU is going to be a player in athletics and really in academics that's what they'll have to do.

Comparing yourself to Austin Peay and UTC is a FAR cry from Tennessee and Va Tech.

A comparison between ETSU and Tennessee/Va Tech is pointless AT THIS POINT. There are few metrics upon which to make a realistic comparison, if any. You do yourself no favors by doing so and your ability to judge real progress is limited.

Comparing yourself to peers and competitors is business 101. An internal assessment of where ETSU is vs. where it was in say 2002, 2003, 2004 is a better starting point RIGHT NOW. If you can't match/beat the numbers you yourself already put up, there's no point in looking at what someone else is doing.

Unfortunately, the first goal of ETSU right now is to get BACK to the level of Austin Peay and Tenn Tech. Currently ETSU is the only state school in TN without a marching band. The front porch is so dimly lit it is hard to even see. Hopefully Dr. Noland can get us back to the FCS level with our peers schools and then we can assess where we want to go from there. First we have to get out of the Stanton/Mullins hole they got us into.

We're spending more on athletics than all but one other state FCS level school in Tennessee. The dropping of football has been shown beyond any shadow of doubt a gross miscalculation. Without the sport, there can be no assessment of where we want to go from there, because there is no there. All the schools that are now adding football at all levels prove ETSU's gross miscalculation and are saying the exact same thing that our new president is saying, "we need to shed greater light on the front porch of the university. We need to be positioned as an institution to ensure that we secure a position that maximizes out ability to put a spotlight on our programs and to grow ETSU."
The Stanton/Mullins model minimizes our ability to put a spotlight....... The question of the day, how long will Dr. Noland keep the Stanton/Mullins model?

(04-21-2012 07:21 PM)PittsburghBucs Wrote:  I thought ETSU, VPI, and UT were all Division I schools.

My bad.

In name only.

22- You may be right.

And people say I'm overly cynical! I'm the one who wants to compare the school to the biggest and the best by a grouping that allows us to!

(04-20-2012 11:11 AM)OldGrayDog Wrote:  It's pretty easy to make the call based on personal viewpoint, but I'm not sure how to objectively measure community support for the athletic program at any university. Maybe two areas shed a little light on this subject at least for comparative purposes. These are amount of money generated by tickets sales and amount of money donated to the program. When I looked at these two areas for FY 2010 for the FCS level schools in Tennessee I found the following.
Ticket sales: 1. Tenn State $691,005 2. UTC $614,169 3. ETSU $275,455 4. Tenn Tech $264,080 5. Austin Peay $177,338 6. UT Martin $67,243. I didn't look at Memphis or UTK, but I did take a look at MTSU since it hasn't been at the FBS level that long. MTSU ticket sales for 2010 was $1,467,858. Donations may be a slighly stronger indication of community/alumni support. If that is the case MTSU isn't doing all that well. In 2010 by its own report it raised $186,771. That figure puts it behind the 6 FCS level schools. 1.) UTC $1,017,515 2.) ETSU $919,629 3.) UT Martin $471,540 4.) Tenn Tech $304,789 5.) Austin Peay $278,025 6.) Tenn State $210,171. I thought that it was interesting that UT Martin ranked as high as it did given its very rural location. The $919,629 donated to ETSU made up the largest percentage of its total athletic revenue (8.4%) of any of the 7 schools. Looking at this information, particularly the donation amount, it is difficult for me to conclude that ETSU athletics enjoys less community support than the other FCS-level schools. That's not to say that community involvement and support can't be improved. They certainly can, but all of the regional schools, particulrly those in comparatively small markets, have the same problem regardless of whether they have football or not.

I don't believe that number is correct. The report must not include monies given to the Blue Raider Athletic Association (BRAA). I know for a fact the the BRAA raises millions of dollars annually. Heck this year alone in our annual membership recruiting drive we signed up around 500 new members. Assuming conservatively that the 500 new members all joined at the minimum donation level of $250.00 that equates to $125,000.00, which that alone is near that quoted figure. I don't know where they got that number. Do you honestly believe that Austin Peay raises more money annually than MT?

You guys are doing more in gate/concessions than 125K annually. Plus, MT's campus wouldn't look like a tornado hit it otherwise. That campus will be ridiculous when it's all built and done, of course by then they'll probably tear down the ghetto dorms and rebuild them too.

(04-25-2012 07:54 AM)Buccaneerlover Wrote:  You guys are doing more in gate/concessions than 125K annually. Plus, MT's campus wouldn't look like a tornado hit it otherwise. That campus will be ridiculous when it's all built and done, of course by then they'll probably tear down the ghetto dorms and rebuild them too.

Pretty much all the older dorms have been gutted and redone completely over the last several years.

There are some that look like government housing on the outside, right down to old, ratty looking windows that could rot out any second. I'm looking into getting my Master's over there, the academic buildings are first class all the way. Maybe it's a hidden gem on the inside, the outside of them look like hell.