http://www.toledoblade.com/UT/2012/04/20...ckets.html

Since the NCAA tourney is a no go next season, I wonder how many of the freshmen will be redshirted. I would think that Williams will defintely redshirt but maybe Lemons should also---since there is no shortage of guards in the program. Both those guys have a lot of upside. It would be nice to let Boothe sit a year building up his strength in the weight room, but we do not have extra big bodies on the front line. Coach K is building a program, and he could use this tough situation to his advantage by letting some of the guys with real potential develop at a slower pace.

(04-20-2012 07:22 AM)Rocket75 Wrote:  Since the NCAA tourney is a no go next season, I wonder how many of the freshmen will be redshirted. I would think that Williams will defintely redshirt but maybe Lemons should also---since there is no shortage of guards in the program. Both those guys have a lot of upside. It would be nice to let Boothe sit a year building up his strength in the weight room, but we do not have extra big bodies on the front line. Coach K is building a program, and he could use this tough situation to his advantage by letting some of the guys with real potential develop at a slower pace.

One of the better posts I've seen in awhile-Never occurred to me, but you're right. In some respects a wasted year for the Frosh.

(04-20-2012 08:04 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(04-20-2012 07:22 AM)Rocket75 Wrote:  Since the NCAA tourney is a no go next season, I wonder how many of the freshmen will be redshirted. I would think that Williams will defintely redshirt but maybe Lemons should also---since there is no shortage of guards in the program. Both those guys have a lot of upside. It would be nice to let Boothe sit a year building up his strength in the weight room, but we do not have extra big bodies on the front line. Coach K is building a program, and he could use this tough situation to his advantage by letting some of the guys with real potential develop at a slower pace.

One of the better posts I've seen in awhile-Never occurred to me, but you're right. In some respects a wasted year for the Frosh.

+1

I've always thought that basketball teams don't take advantage of red shirting players enough...or players don't take advantage of it.

Playing against multiple fifth year seniors doesn't sound appealing to this Bronco fan.

I hope coach K lets them play this year :)

Great idea on the redshirts...if Hackenberg is right that we have to go the way of UConn then why not? Get a head of the books and learn the system well. Hope TK is thinking this way as well.

In my "dream" scenario we sign Nigel Hayes, Zach Garber and a top guard prospect for the 2013-2014 season. Add in Drummond who will be sitting out this season after transferring, and that is 7 new bodies we did not have this year. We will only have lost Dennis and Buckley. That is a team that ought to be considered NCAA tournament material.

Why just freshman redshirts. Cullop redshirted a girl her sophmore year to make her better so I guess you can redshirt any year and if that is truly the case he can stategically redshirt players for years not under prohibition. Can't do that with Dennis and other transfers because they only have 5 yrs to get 4 yrs eligibility.

I was thinking that we could red-shirt everyone who has a red-shirt left and just play with a bunch of walk-ons, but then I thought that wouldn't be fair to Buckley or Dennis who will be playing in heir final season. I do agree that the idea should be explored.

I disagree with red-shirting the freshmen with the possible exception of Aubrey Williams. The problem is not about having enough guards, but not having enough decent basketball players who can play. There is a huge drop off after the first six.

I don’t think Coach K and those six are ready to write off the season simply because they may not be allowed to play in the post season. I think they may play even harder and with a chip on their shoulders. They can still take a lot of satisfaction in being spoilers and letting everyone know that the best team in the MAC may not be in the MACC tourney. The freshmen need to be a part of that. There will be plenty of opportunities in future classes to red-shirt players. Boothe and Lemons are needed now. They will both probably play a lot this year and that experience will be a bonus next year when Buckley and Dennis are gone.

players develop best playing. redshirting a young guy with lots of talent who is raw or needs major strength and conditioning work when you are loaded at his position makes sense. otherwise, i don't see it. lemons is a player and will be an immediate addition boht in practice pushing juice and during games. boothe will be a vital part of the interior rotation. williams, who knows. one of those players who has a feel for the game but doesn't exactly look the part.

just because the team is blocked from the postseason deosn't mean you give up on a season. play to win, be as good as you can be and celebrate the success. you don't succeed by tanking as part of a plan for future greatness unless you are sammy villegas.

as for the ban, it's complete bs. the ncaa is punishing a staff and roster who has fulfilled all their academic and citizenship responsibilities in spite of draconian scholarship reductions and an the additional loss of a top recruit to a heart condition. none of these kids were part of the program during years of poor apr scores. the coach and staff responsible for those failures face no sanction and those kids who didn't fulfill their academic obligations were able to move on to other schools and are playing now (possibly in the postseason). this is like locking up a model citizen for robbery because their cousin stole a car 3 years ago.

as for cross (hissssss) blaming jop for the academic issues. remember that joplin had been criticized early in his tenure over some players doing a poor job in class. he worked with the academic support folks and his staff to develop a strong support model, summer school routine and solid academic culture. not all of his players were scholars, but for the heart of his coaching days he graduated players at a high rate and took a lot of kids from weak academic backgrounds and helped them be successful college students. when the apr came into use his teams scored very high. it was only his painful final year that things fell apart. the gambling scandel, key recruits ineligible, a couple late marginal recruits/students and a firing mid semester that did not allow him to monitor and support players who felt betrayed by his firing. while that last yr apr scores are attributed to jop, cross was actually running the program during the final 6-8 weeks of class and finals a time when several players bailed/got pushed out without passing classes. whiel cross' teams had decent gpa, that misses the point of going through so many players that guys were constantly leaving and often had no incentive to hang around toledo and finish school work. i believe 15 players were in and out of the program (not counting guys like amos and kent who used up eligibility) during the 2 years cross was in charge. that was the issue - and time frame penalized by the ban. both joplin and kowalcyk know how to run a program and keep kids on track.

(04-20-2012 08:04 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(04-20-2012 07:22 AM)Rocket75 Wrote:  Since the NCAA tourney is a no go next season, I wonder how many of the freshmen will be redshirted. I would think that Williams will defintely redshirt but maybe Lemons should also---since there is no shortage of guards in the program. Both those guys have a lot of upside. It would be nice to let Boothe sit a year building up his strength in the weight room, but we do not have extra big bodies on the front line. Coach K is building a program, and he could use this tough situation to his advantage by letting some of the guys with real potential develop at a slower pace.

One of the better posts I've seen in awhile-Never occurred to me, but you're right. In some respects a wasted year for the Frosh.

Was UT going to win the MAC tournament next season? And we are lamenting the fact we are being cost our 1st bid in a generation?
Since when can't freshman contribute right away in a sport like basketball?
Often they are key players to a team's depth.
Other times, yes, some players just aren't ready.
Redshirt the ones who aren't ready.
Let the ballers play.

maybe we could redshirt the entire roster?
maximize their potentials....

I agree with owen, it would be a mistake to redshirt indiscriminately. First of all, the season is not wasted just because we can't win the national championship next year. There are still legitimate goals that the team can set, and there can still be excitement surrounding the season. Also, there is a downside to redshirting. If you commit to having a lot of five-year players, then you will have fewer scholarships available each year to bring in new players.

The penalties do seem unfair, and they certainly will take some of the drama out of next season. However, I don't think that the penalties are devastating to the program. We are building a program, and that progress does not need to be interrupted next year. We probably wouldn't have been ready for an NCAA run until 2013-14 anyway.

Coach K has already said that these recruits wouldn't have been brought in if he didn't think they could help right away. I don't see any redshirts unless a player is hopelessly over-matched. This team needs as much playing time, with as many players, as possible.

On another note, I hope the recent negative APR stories don't hurt us with local recruits.

(04-21-2012 08:45 AM)Dwight Wrote:  I agree with owen, it would be a mistake to redshirt indiscriminately.

Of course it wouldn't BE indiscriminate. You would discriminate by choosing only freshmen who would then have an opportunity to contribute to four years of teams with MAC championship potential. And I'm not thinking it should be done but its certainly a nice example of thinking outside the box. We are returning everybody from a pretty decent team as it is. On the flip side it wouldn't be fair to the seniors and it would mean the frosh would come in with no actual game experience in the year we would have the best chance at an NCAA bid-2013-14.

And owen- who knows if we would win the MAC next year? OU returns everybody but so do we and we played them evenly this year. So with our newcomers, yeah, maybe. We certainly should have had our best shot since the Ingram crew.