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Obamacare Increases the Deficit
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GeorgeBorkFan Offline
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Obamacare Increases the Deficit
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/e...ml?hpid=z2


http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/1...5Q20120410


These are two articles on a new study on the impacts of Obamacare to the federal budget. The study pretty much shoots a gigantic hole through the claims of the Dems on how much this legislation will "save" us. These seem to explain the double-counting of the Medicare cuts pretty well.
04-10-2012 11:25 AM
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Fitbud Offline
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RE: Obamacare Increases the Deficit
It's called an investment.
04-10-2012 11:56 AM
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Ninerfan1 Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Obamacare Increases the Deficit
In other news water is wet.
04-10-2012 12:37 PM
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Bull_In_Exile Offline
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RE: Obamacare Increases the Deficit
(04-10-2012 11:56 AM)Fitbuddy Wrote:  It's called an investment.

So is this..

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04-10-2012 12:43 PM
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SumOfAllFears Offline
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RE: Obamacare Increases the Deficit
A Democratic Congress and Senate super majority lied to the American People and when we saw what was in the bill, it was a lie. Madoff made lots of (supposed) investments for people that turned out to be a lie, a ponzi scheme. Obaffoon and Madoff should share a prison cell.
04-10-2012 08:08 PM
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smn1256 Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Obamacare Increases the Deficit
(04-10-2012 08:08 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Obaffoon and Madoff should share a prison cell.

What about Pelosi and Reid?
04-10-2012 08:14 PM
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Paul M Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Obamacare Increases the Deficit
(04-10-2012 08:14 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 08:08 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Obaffoon and Madoff should share a prison cell.

What about Pelosi and Reid?

If you put the 4 of them in prison together, Pelosi is the one who would be getting her dick sucked.
04-10-2012 08:48 PM
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I'mMoreAwesomeThanYou Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Obamacare Increases the Deficit
(04-10-2012 08:48 PM)Paul M Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 08:14 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 08:08 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Obaffoon and Madoff should share a prison cell.

What about Pelosi and Reid?

If you put the 4 of them in prison together, Pelosi is the one who would be getting her dick sucked.

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04-11-2012 07:15 AM
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Max Power Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Obamacare Increases the Deficit
I'll admit the ("double counting") criticisms by this study seem valid and I would prefer their math. However, it's also true that the math used by the CBO has been used by both parties for decades, so it's a little hypocritical to be complaining about it now.

Also, it assumes the CLASS Program is dead. Its implementation has been suspended and it may never be implemented but it still hasn't been repealed and the administration has hinted it might pick it back up again.
04-11-2012 09:36 AM
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GeorgeBorkFan Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Obamacare Increases the Deficit
(04-11-2012 09:36 AM)Max Power Wrote:  I'll admit the ("double counting") criticisms by this study seem valid and I would prefer their math. However, it's also true that the math used by the CBO has been used by both parties for decades, so it's a little hypocritical to be complaining about it now.

Also, it assumes the CLASS Program is dead. Its implementation has been suspended and it may never be implemented but it still hasn't been repealed and the administration has hinted it might pick it back up again.

I'm not commenting on how the parties use the CBO to generate the numbers they want. The number in this study represents reality much more accurately than anything else done to this point and it illustrates that the bill increases the deficit. Since most, if not all, Dems hung their hat on this bill decreasing the deficit, it is a significant point of discussion.

CLASS being dead helps the finances of the bill. CLASS only made the bill look better in the early years when it took in revenue and paid out nothing. In future years, spending far outpaced revenue, which is why it was suspended/terminated. CLASS can never work and it was a legislative maneuver at best.
04-11-2012 09:51 AM
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Bull_In_Exile Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Obamacare Increases the Deficit
(04-11-2012 09:36 AM)Max Power Wrote:  I'll admit the ("double counting") criticisms by this study seem valid and I would prefer their math. However, it's also true that the math used by the CBO has been used by both parties for decades, so it's a little hypocritical to be complaining about it now.

The math problem is not the CBO's... they *have* to work with what congress gives them. Do both parties sometimes massage the numbers? heck yes they do.

Is it an issue with *everything* the CBO does? no...
04-11-2012 09:54 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Obamacare Increases the Deficit
CBO is a very professional and competent organization from everything that I can see.

But the idea that they do independent analysis is a blatant misconception. Their job is to take the assumptions given to them by Congress and run the numbers based on those assumptions. In the vast majority, if not all, of those cases they do a good job of running the numbers. But that's all they do. They crunch the numbers based on somebody else's assumptions, at least when they are answering congressional inquiries. That's a far cry from the independent analysis that some like to describe their work as being. And like anything else, it's garbage in, garbage out. That's why CBO estimates on the front end consistently understate the cost of new programs. They run those numbers based on the assumptions fed to them by proponents of the particular bill, who have a vested interest in understating the cost in order to get their bill passed. So, guess what, CBO understates the cost.

I'm reminded of a golf pro friend who likes to say, "If you have a bad grip, then you don't want a good swing." Because if the grip starts you out pointed in the wrong direction, then doing everything right from that point will inevitably mean a bad shot. If CBO gets fed bad assumptions, that gets them pointed in the wrong direction from the start, and if they do everything right from that point (and they usually do) then they inevitably must come up with a wrong answer.

In cases where they do their own independent analysis, they usually come up with good information.

One thing that is unusual about the Obamacare analyses is that CBO doesn't usually take exception to the assumptions they were fed. But if you look in the back of the various letters they wrote, there's some pretty strong wording (particularly measured against the standard of what usually goes into these sorts of reports) suggesting that they didn't buy the assumptions they were given by Reid, Pelosi, and the Obama administration. I don't buy them either.
04-11-2012 10:08 AM
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