(04-09-2012 09:09 AM)Max Power Wrote:  And yes there are people defending Zimmerman. Every time someone posts a photo of Martin with a fake gold tooth they're attempting to dehumanize the victim, which is a defense tactic, albeit a very poor and irrelevant (and sick) one because it does nothing to justify Z's actions at all. Same with mentioning the hoodie. The purpose of those using these tactics is to justify Z's suspicion in Martin and his following him through the neighborhood, even possibly the using of deadly force.

Showing pictures of a child and calling Martin a child is a lie. Exposing some truth in a case fraught with lies is not a defense, not dehumanizing, not sick, not justifying.

(04-09-2012 02:27 PM)Paul M Wrote:  

(04-09-2012 09:09 AM)Max Power Wrote:  And yes there are people defending Zimmerman. Every time someone posts a photo of Martin with a fake gold tooth they're attempting to dehumanize the victim, which is a defense tactic, albeit a very poor and irrelevant (and sick) one because it does nothing to justify Z's actions at all. Same with mentioning the hoodie. The purpose of those using these tactics is to justify Z's suspicion in Martin and his following him through the neighborhood, even possibly the using of deadly force.

Showing pictures of a child and calling Martin a child is a lie. Exposing some truth in a case fraught with lies is not a defense, not dehumanizing, not sick, not justifying.

But pauuuulllll its a NOBLE lie.. Besides I'm sure the reason the media is using that picture is because the Parents just don't have a good one in the past seven years.

Well, there are always Martin's Facebook photos from an account that is now closed. I'm sure some sleuth can use the wayback machine and get those but certain people would object. Heck, it's probably already been done.

Here is another crime story.

Now this is interesting.

Quote: “Just because we don’t book a person immediately does not mean we don’t charge a person at a later date.”

Taco Bell Shooting Victim was Holding Leash, Not Weapon

Now, because I linked to that, I await being labelled as a defender of the Zman. Or somehow branded a racist. Which will come first?

Quote:That's BS and you know it. How many examples do I need to show you?

It's the truth dude. When Bush trampled on civil liberties there was no one on the right howling (except Paul). It was all on the left. And now with Obama doing trampling of his own, many of those same liberals are howling along with conservatives who've "seen the light." GMAB.

Quote:You say all of this yet the left is calling Zman a racist, a murderer, and making up all kinds of ****. The only thing they haven't done is accuse him of being here illegally. It goes both ways Mr Libertarian.

Well that stuff is at least relevant to the case (except the being here illegally part). The racist part probably isn't, but might be.

Quote:Sure, Max. They usually only work for the causes that they AGREE with, you dope (hint: leftwing causes and people). Any fool (except yourself) can see this. It's been that way for years before you were born and still is. There may be a few exceptions but from what I've seen this is true.

Not true at all. Many leftwingers and left wing organizations fight for the rights of people on the right. The ACLU fought for the right of neo Nazis to march in a parade based on freedom of speech. They've defended Rush Limbaugh, Oliver North, the Westboro Church, George Wallace, Rockwell and the KKK. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aclu#Allega...beral_bias

Quote:So, you are in Florida? Or you mean HERE, as in this particular case?

I don't need to be in Florida to know they can prove probable cause but haven't.

Quote:Well, since the media tried to play prosecutor and try to frame it by using photos at least 3 or 4 years old to portray Martin as some young little innocent kid, why are you surprised that some media (not sure who) is fighting fire with fire? It was a despicable move by the media and deep down you know why they did it.

I don't think it was despicable to show presentable photos of a dead 16 year old. It's common decency. What's despicable is the right's obsession with the unflattering photos to demonize an unarmed kid who was shot dead.

Quote:Max, all one needs is a fair amount of reading comprehension to understand and comprehend all the noise you and those like you are making. You want him arrested. All the rest of your screed is just to make it seem like you want him to get a fair trial when, in reality, you are SURE he is guilty. That is my opinion, based on your own rants/screeds. I've seen your kind for decades. You fool nobody.

Nope, I'm not sure he's guilty. I've said so before, and railed against SYG because it might get him acquitted. But based on evidence I've seen he might be guilty, and if he might be there should be a trial (OR the prosecution should explain publicly why not).

Quote:The special prosecutor is at work on this. If it was as cut and dried as you say regarding probable cause, he already would be arrested (but you already know this). Since I don't live in Florida I don't know the specifics of how the Sanford P.D. operates, how many times they have bungled investigations, etc. I suspect you don't either but you are going based on info from people who have a beef with them. Fair enough.

Nope, like I said, there could be clear probable cause but other motivations could be keeping the prosecution from moving forward (and not just racism).

Quote:Max, in your world, which would be the worst outcome?

I'll await your answer but won't be surprised if you don't answer..

a) Rushing to arrest and charge him because of the uproar and public pressure and have the case blow up in the prosecution's face. No dbl jeopardy.

b) The Special Prosecutor investigates, and decides to file charges against Zman, even if it takes a few months.

c) The Special Prosecutor investigates, and decides not to file charges on Zman, even if it takes a few months.

(B) because he could flee by the time the prosecutor decides to file charges. And if the prosecution gets an adverse ruling at a probable cause hearing, that doesn't invoke double jeopardy, so your assumption there is wrong. The prosecutor can come back later with more evidence for another try. Now, obviously you don't want to have the actual trial before you get all the evidence. However, if they make the arrest now and even if Z demands a speedy trial it will still be a few weeks or months before the trial, which is plenty of time to get your ducks in a row. There really is no excuse for the damn hold up. Build your case when he's in jail (or out on bond if the judge thinks he's not a flight risk).

Quote:I can wait for the actual facts the investigation uncovers. You, Max cannot seem to do that. Why is that?

Because he's possibly guilty of murder and could flee, and the fact there apparently was no investigation going on initially until the media firestorm suggests they're not very interested in pursuing justice for Trayvon.

Quote:Could it be that all the 'facts' that you have are turning into "maybe NOT a fact.?"

Maybe. Let Z and his defense lawyer make the case and have a jury decide.

Quote:Or, are you going to continue to insist that your facts are all correct (when none of us really know all the facts)?

Whether they are or not, there are enough facts to take before a judge and get an arrest warrant, so that you can have him in custody while you traipse along in your "investigation."

Quote:Showing pictures of a child and calling Martin a child is a lie. Exposing some truth in a case fraught with lies is not a defense, not dehumanizing, not sick, not justifying.

Actually it's quite literally the truth. Yes it is.

FTR, Martin posted the picture of himself with the gold tooth. How is anyone dehumanizing him when he did it to himself?

As to fleeing the jurisdiction... He can do that after being arrested as well... Unless youre going t o remand him. I mean, if he's going up for murder, he isn't going to care about the bond he posted. I suspect the police told him to "stay close" and have kept tabs on him.

Why are you so desperate to put this guy in jail? Why is his story so hard for you to believe? 90% of the things that made him loo so guilty at first have turned out to be lies... He looks suspicious, he's black.... Coon... Etc etc. I think I read he'd called in something like 19 times and not ONCE mentioned race until he was asked. He called in to report a suspicious person... To have the police dispatched... Is that what people "looking" to kill someone do?

(04-09-2012 03:09 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  Taco Bell Shooting Victim was Holding Leash, Not Weapon

Max, these stories are very, very similar. Where are Al, Jesse, and the liberal media? Where are you?

Ok.

Counselor... You have the floor. You may present your case to the grand jury right now. You said, based on the evidence you've seen... And I want evidence, not hyperbole or conjecture... But evidence.

Here are the facts we know... Feel free to add others you think I'm leaving out


Zimmerman, as he has done many times without incident, calls 9/11 to report a suspicious person. When he seeks to approach the person, he reaches into his pants or pocket (cant remember) and then runs. Zimmerman reports that he has lost site of the person. The police have been dispatched.

The police arrive to find a dead boy and Zimmerman there claiming self defense. He says the boy appeared, there was a struggle, he feared for his life and shot the boy. Zimmermans body, clothes and the ground show signs of a struggle. A witness says she saw a person wearing clothes that matched the description of the dead boy "on top of" the person wearing clothes matching zimmermans. The law in Florida states that Zimmerman is in his rights to shoot someone if he feels he has to to defend his life... And that following and even confronting Martin is not a crime.

As I know it, these are the undisputed STATEMENTS of facts of the case. Not facts, but statements. pending investigation, this is where we are. They have been stated and not refuted by the family or its spokespeople... Please feel free to dispute them with testimony. I am aware that it has been claimed by some experts that the screaming voice someone else heard wasn't Zimmerman, though that is hardly fact... And not even a witness, but an educated guess...

You have the floor. We are all listening/reading

Hammy, if you're going to cloud the issue with facts we'll never to the predetermined outcome the left wants.