(04-08-2012 03:10 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(04-08-2012 03:04 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  I was watching CNN yesterday and they were talking about Trayvon getting shot for wearing a hoodie, then immediately segmented to a story on pharmacy robberies to obtain pills and every single robbery video (multiple videos) had a black young male in a hoodie robbing the store with a gun. I kid you not. I was just like CNN fail...

We see a lot of those on TV where a convenience store is robbed by a black guy in a hoodie. Now take that and add to it that many black folks want to portray a tough, hoodlum image and the stereotype is exactly what they created. How come a black guy on the cover of a rap CD has a mean and intimidating look with gansta lyrics? Now they are portraying an intimidating stereotype and then fault people when they say all black men in hoodlies scare them. They create that persona and want us to treat them like they're Barry Manilow? That's BS.

How do you blame a person for being scared?

So Trayvon Martin is responsible for all this?

(04-08-2012 03:57 PM)Max Power Wrote:  

(04-08-2012 03:10 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(04-08-2012 03:04 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  I was watching CNN yesterday and they were talking about Trayvon getting shot for wearing a hoodie, then immediately segmented to a story on pharmacy robberies to obtain pills and every single robbery video (multiple videos) had a black young male in a hoodie robbing the store with a gun. I kid you not. I was just like CNN fail...

We see a lot of those on TV where a convenience store is robbed by a black guy in a hoodie. Now take that and add to it that many black folks want to portray a tough, hoodlum image and the stereotype is exactly what they created. How come a black guy on the cover of a rap CD has a mean and intimidating look with gansta lyrics? Now they are portraying an intimidating stereotype and then fault people when they say all black men in hoodlies scare them. They create that persona and want us to treat them like they're Barry Manilow? That's BS.

How do you blame a person for being scared?

So Trayvon Martin is responsible for all this?

The stereotype has been created and it wasn't created by white people, Hispanic people, or red people. This is the image many blacks WANT to portray, it worked, and Martin is a victim of it. Do I need Bill Cosby to spell it out?

If Martin didn't exactly live in that neighborhood, what was he doing there?

If I'm deploying my own Occam's Razor here, my guess on how it loosely went down:

- Zimmerman follows Martin. Not subtely from a distance, but with a purpose to intimidate.
- I think Zimmerman loves his pseudo 'security post' more than anything else and likes showing off the machismo in front of any kid, regardless of race, but I do believe he pays more "attention" to black kids.
- Heated words are exchanged.
- Not sure who the started physical contact. They come to blows. Both get a few hits in.
- Zman starts digging around for his gun, which is probably around the time Martin is able to get an upper hand on him, physically.
- Zman fires the weapon.

Martin might've had a case of harrassment on him if the fight never broke out, especially if Zman started with threatening language and any slurs. If Zimmerman started swinging first, Martin would've had him on assault (and vice-versa if Martin started swinging first). My opinion is that Zimmerman should've been arrested on either second degree murder or voluntary manslaughter, although I figure the former is more suitable, and let the legal process play out.

Moving forward, it's difficult in that it's Zman's word - and probably character testimony - against a dead man's. If he can convince a jury that, even if Zman inappropriately followed him, if Martin went full on violent and had him pinned to the sidewalk with overwhelming force whereas escape wasn't a viable option, then he'd have a decent chance of walking.

But cases like this call into question how much impact (if any?) instigating a situation has. If I pass a couple at a bar and call the woman a few bad names and her husband smashes a beer bottle across my head... how much did I "ask" for it? Did I not play a role? Then again, smashing glass is more damaging than a couple words, is it not? Both of us escalated things. In the Sanford case, if Zimmerman said something like, "hey <enter insults here>, wtf are you doing in this neighborhood?" to Martin, is it 'understandable' that Martin got riled up and maybe threw the first punch (IF that's how it went down)?

So yor razor includes details about a racist man who has black relatives and many vocal African American supporters ( who know him ).

(04-08-2012 04:57 PM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  If I'm deploying my own Occam's Razor here, my guess on how it loosely went down:

- Zimmerman follows Martin. Not subtely from a distance, but with a purpose to intimidate.
- I think Zimmerman loves his pseudo 'security post' more than anything else and likes showing off the machismo in front of any kid, regardless of race, but I do believe he pays more "attention" to black kids.
- Heated words are exchanged.
- Not sure who the started physical contact. They come to blows. Both get a few hits in.
- Zman starts digging around for his gun, which is probably around the time Martin is able to get an upper hand on him, physically.
- Zman fires the weapon.

Martin might've had a case of harrassment on him if the fight never broke out, especially if Zman started with threatening language and any slurs. If Zimmerman started swinging first, Martin would've had him on assault (and vice-versa if Martin started swinging first). My opinion is that Zimmerman should've been arrested on either second degree murder or voluntary manslaughter, although I figure the former is more suitable, and let the legal process play out.

Moving forward, it's difficult in that it's Zman's word - and probably character testimony - against a dead man's. If he can convince a jury that, even if Zman inappropriately followed him, if Martin went full on violent and had him pinned to the sidewalk with overwhelming force whereas escape wasn't a viable option, then he'd have a decent chance of walking.

But cases like this call into question how much impact (if any?) instigating a situation has. If I pass a couple at a bar and call the woman a few bad names and her husband smashes a beer bottle across my head... how much did I "ask" for it? Did I not play a role? Then again, smashing glass is more damaging than a couple words, is it not? Both of us escalated things. In the Sanford case, if Zimmerman said something like, "hey <enter insults here>, wtf are you doing in this neighborhood?" to Martin, is it 'understandable' that Martin got riled up and maybe threw the first punch (IF that's how it went down)?

I never said Zimmerman was a flat-out "racist." But it's entirely possible for him to have black friends, etc, and yet still harbor a more elevated internal reaction about a hoodied black kid walking through his neighborhood versus a hoodied white kid. Still just a guess, and frankly, it's irrelevant to the case anyhow. What's relevant is if his actions that led to the death were appropriate and justified, regardless of anyone's race. At the moment, I don't think it was, but I understand I wasn't there and all the facts haven't shaken out.

(04-08-2012 06:09 PM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  I never said Zimmerman was a flat-out "racist." But it's entirely possible for him to have black friends, etc, and yet still harbor a more elevated internal reaction about a hoodied black kid walking through his neighborhood versus a hoodied white kid. Still just a guess, and frankly, it's irrelevant to the case anyhow. What's relevant is if his actions that led to the death were appropriate and justified, regardless of anyone's race. At the moment, I don't think it was, but I understand I wasn't there and all the facts haven't shaken out.

A razor is a most likely and least complex answer... He does not have friends... He has black family! And he mentors several African children who's mother swears by him...

What's more likely he would be like this to any unknown teen in a hoodie or that this racially mixed man with a lot of people who know him,yet don't think he is racist ( not even a little bit) is really harboring racism?

Does the razor incorporate CNN and other media outlets trying to hype the "coon" racial slur that NEVER happened? Or NBC Nightly News altering the 911 Q&A to paint Zimmerman as a racist bent on killing a black person?

Quote:LOL JK I'm white, I have nothing to worry about.

Yeah, that's what that white tourist in Baltimore thought too before he was attacked, beaten, stripped, and robbed while black onlookers jeered and laughed. But no big deal, right? The victim was white and probably racist. He DESERVED the bumrush beatdown in downtown Baltimore.

(04-08-2012 07:45 PM)boss man Wrote:  Does the razor incorporate CNN and other media outlets trying to hype the "coon" racial slur that NEVER happened? Or NBC Nightly News altering the 911 Q&A to paint Zimmerman as a racist bent on killing a black person?

Quote:LOL JK I'm white, I have nothing to worry about.

Yeah, that's what that white tourist in Baltimore thought too before he was attacked, beaten, stripped, and robbed while black onlookers jeered and laughed. But no big deal, right? The victim was white and probably racist. He DESERVED the bumrush beatdown in downtown Baltimore.

Well he was rich and white.... Clearly he had it coming.

In all seriousness what was that moron doing there...

(04-08-2012 08:41 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(04-08-2012 07:45 PM)boss man Wrote:  Does the razor incorporate CNN and other media outlets trying to hype the "coon" racial slur that NEVER happened? Or NBC Nightly News altering the 911 Q&A to paint Zimmerman as a racist bent on killing a black person?

Quote:LOL JK I'm white, I have nothing to worry about.

Yeah, that's what that white tourist in Baltimore thought too before he was attacked, beaten, stripped, and robbed while black onlookers jeered and laughed. But no big deal, right? The victim was white and probably racist. He DESERVED the bumrush beatdown in downtown Baltimore.

Well he was rich and white.... Clearly he had it coming.

In all seriousness what was that moron doing there...

Probably following a GPS' directions.

(04-08-2012 08:47 PM)Max Power Wrote:  

You are horrible at presenting facts and making sense. Have you ever won an actual jury trial?

And since Martin wasn't shot for weed, old photos or looking gangsta...

All media outlets try to simplify things to be very black and white (no pun intended), this incident is no different. Generally if the media makes this big of a deal of a story of this nature there is some ulterior motive and I tend to ignore it.

(04-08-2012 08:53 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  You are horrible at presenting facts and making sense. Have you ever won an actual jury trial?

(04-08-2012 09:18 PM)Paul M Wrote:  And since Martin wasn't shot for weed, old photos or looking gangsta...

O really? Then why are conservatives on here and elsewhere pointing out he smoked weed and looked gangsta? Just ol' fashioned racism?

(04-09-2012 02:48 PM)Max Power Wrote:  

(04-08-2012 09:18 PM)Paul M Wrote:  And since Martin wasn't shot for weed, old photos or looking gangsta...

O really? Then why are conservatives on here and elsewhere pointing out he smoked weed and looked gangsta? Just ol' fashioned racism?

Why did the media use a seven year old picture of child Martin next to a mug shot of Zimmerman? and why is *that* ok but pointing out that Martin was not the choir boy presented is not?

(04-09-2012 07:37 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(04-08-2012 08:53 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  You are horrible at presenting facts and making sense. Have you ever won an actual jury trial?

LOL@ sh!tcons thinking they're qualified to judge my intellect and skillz.

(04-09-2012 02:50 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(04-09-2012 02:48 PM)Max Power Wrote:  

(04-08-2012 09:18 PM)Paul M Wrote:  And since Martin wasn't shot for weed, old photos or looking gangsta...

O really? Then why are conservatives on here and elsewhere pointing out he smoked weed and looked gangsta? Just ol' fashioned racism?

Why did the media use a seven year old picture of child Martin next to a mug shot of Zimmerman? and why is *that* ok but pointing out that Martin was not the choir boy presented is not?

Because the media likes to use pictures to illustrate stories and was probably supplied that picture by the parents of the dead kid. And assuming they did have the "gangsta" pictures, maybe they had a heart and didn't want to hurt his family by showing his embarassing photos. When you die is your wife going to send embarassing pics of you for the obituary? Wearing bubba teeth, chugging beers in college or worse?

How good of a kid Martin was is absolutely irrelevant and all you conservatives are being ridiculous or worse.

(04-09-2012 02:54 PM)Max Power Wrote:  How good of a kid Martin was is absolutely irrelevant and all you conservatives are being ridiculous or worse.

So if Martin, and I'm just throwing this out there, was well known throughout the neighborhood for being a trouble maker, robbing cars, intimidating people, selling drugs, being in a gang, etc, you would argue that Zman's knowledge of this shouldn't come into play. None of us know what kind of kid he was, same with Zman, but no one is giving Zman the same break they're giving Martin.