(03-31-2012 05:29 PM)Jim Tripcony Wrote:  

(03-31-2012 10:07 AM)LRTrojan Wrote:  

(03-30-2012 10:20 PM)PTJR Wrote:  Tough to see how anyone can disagree with you on this one LRTrojan without agreeing that they are accepting losing is an acceptable standard. Which you and I do not.

Looking at the facts, I would think so, but it looks like you are the only one who agrees. I agree that Steve is a nice guy, graduates his players, and is a pretty good coach(but for whatever reasons, hasn't grown this program in nine years),but I'll be damned if I can figure out this love affair with him that most on this board have. If it's not a love affair, then our fans must look at the UALR program as they would a Little League baseball team. Everyone gets to play, everyone gets a trophy at the end of the season(here it's a division championship), and it doesn't matter if we win or lose," there's no crying in baseball"(basketball), and don't hurt anyone's self esteem.

Normally when we win the division championship, we're still the 3rd or 4th best team in a conference that's not highly regarded. That's the reason most of our fans like divisional play. Winning a division championship and finsihing first in the West, looks better than finishing 3rd or 4th in a league without divisions. [b]And you get to hang a banner.[/b]

Which none of the other teams in the division get to do most years.

To be honest, I don't think I've ever heard of teams hanging banners for winning a division in a conference.

(03-31-2012 06:12 PM)PTJR Wrote:  To be honest, I don't think I've ever heard of teams hanging banners for winning a division in a conference.

I don't have a big problem with that, especially if that's all you can win. It does make the Jack look more "homey" and makes it look like we actually have a successful program at UALR. Seems like I remember some here making fun of John Brady when they cut down the nets after winning the Western division last season. If it's okay to hang a banner, why shouldn't you be able to cut down the nets for the same reason?

(03-31-2012 06:30 PM)LRTrojan Wrote:  

(03-31-2012 06:12 PM)PTJR Wrote:  To be honest, I don't think I've ever heard of teams hanging banners for winning a division in a conference.

I don't have a big problem with that, especially if that's all you can win. It does make the Jack look more "homey" and makes it look like we actually have a successful program at UALR. Seems like I remember some here making fun of John Brady when they cut down the nets after winning the Western division last season. If it's okay to hang a banner, why shouldn't you be able to cut down the nets for the same reason?

Cutting down nets and hanging banners for Divisional Championship are both pretty lame ideas.

I have mixed emotions about the winning and losing over the last few years.

This year we were in most all of the games and just could not finish. We were the 2nd best team in the sbc. The best team was almost ranked in the top 25 and just fell short of going to the final 4 of the Nit.

We showed we have some real talent.

The part that hurt was another one and done in the sbc tournament. Wku's guard play was poor this year and we should have been able to beat them.

(03-31-2012 07:57 PM)insideualr Wrote:  I have mixed emotions about the winning and losing over the last few years.

This year we were in most all of the games and just could not finish. We were the 2nd best team in the sbc. The best team was almost ranked in the top 25 and just fell short of going to the final 4 of the Nit.

We showed we have some real talent.

The part that hurt was another one and done in the sbc tournament. Wku's guard play was poor this year and we should have been able to beat them.

It was poor until the end of the season. By the end, they were the best team in the league. Beat MTSU and then swept the tourney.

(03-30-2012 06:51 PM)LRTrojan Wrote:  

(03-30-2012 03:47 PM)roundball2239 Wrote:  It's marketing that's responsible for that

That a ridiculous statement. You've got to have a good product to market. It's hard to market five losing seasons out of nine.
------------------------------------------------------------------
My reference was toward the statement that the SID is responsible for fannies in the seats.


From what I've seen so far, and I'll admit to that being little, the university president needs to put a huge push to market the university as a whole and the entire athletics program to the city. UALR's attendance problem certainly isn't unique. Yes, winning brings in some fans, but it's a culture change that needs to happen. You want the fans to stay around and contribute....win or lose. That doesn't happen overnight and a university needs to be committed to increasing the fanbase (and you can read that as donors).

Also, I can tell you from experience that bringing in a "Sizzle" coach most often leads to a really big "Fizzle". That's all quick fix stuff that usually doesn't work in the long run. Remember, too that a new head coach means a new coaching staff....want to lose Joe and the others? You'll potentially lose players as well....remember they can transfer if there's a coaching change.

Personally, I think the program's stability in coaching brings an underlying confidence. Some of the losses this year were by slim margins and could have gone either way. Injuries hurt and put the year in jeopardy, but coming on strong at the end is what gave me confidence, and I think we're in pretty good hands and the future looks bright.

(04-03-2012 11:40 AM)roundball2239 Wrote:  

(03-30-2012 06:51 PM)LRTrojan Wrote:  

(03-30-2012 03:47 PM)roundball2239 Wrote:  It's marketing that's responsible for that

That a ridiculous statement. You've got to have a good product to market. It's hard to market five losing seasons out of nine.
------------------------------------------------------------------
My reference was toward the statement that the SID is responsible for fannies in the seats.


From what I've seen so far, and I'll admit to that being little, the university president needs to put a huge push to market the university as a whole and the entire athletics program to the city. UALR's attendance problem certainly isn't unique. Yes, winning brings in some fans, but it's a culture change that needs to happen. You want the fans to stay around and contribute....win or lose. That doesn't happen overnight and a university needs to be committed to increasing the fanbase (and you can read that as donors).

Also, I can tell you from experience that bringing in a "Sizzle" coach most often leads to a really big "Fizzle". That's all quick fix stuff that usually doesn't work in the long run. Remember, too that a new head coach means a new coaching staff....want to lose Joe and the others? You'll potentially lose players as well....remember they can transfer if there's a coaching change.

Personally, I think the program's stability in coaching brings an underlying confidence. Some of the losses this year were by slim margins and could have gone either way. Injuries hurt and put the year in jeopardy, but coming on strong at the end is what gave me confidence, and I think we're in pretty good hands and the future looks bright.

Good post. Stability in a program is a good thing. Look what's gone on in Fayetteville with them changing coaches every few seasons. I agree with the "Coaches with sizzle often fizzle". Wish I had thought of that one. Usually those kinds of coaches tend to be self-promoters, more than anything, and will only take you so far until they are off to greener pastures. Also like you mentioned, a coaching change leads to transfers and typically sets the program back a couple of years. Thus it may be indicated after a 4-12 season, but not a 12-4 season.

(04-03-2012 11:40 AM)roundball2239 Wrote:  [------------------------------------------------------------------
My reference was toward the statement that the SID is responsible for fannies in the seats.


From what I've seen so far, and I'll admit to that being little, the university president needs to put a huge push to market the university as a whole and the entire athletics program to the city. UALR's attendance problem certainly isn't unique. Yes, winning brings in some fans, but it's a culture change that needs to happen. You want the fans to stay around and contribute....win or lose. That doesn't happen overnight and a university needs to be committed to increasing the fanbase (and you can read that as donors).

Also, I can tell you from experience that bringing in a "Sizzle" coach most often leads to a really big "Fizzle". That's all quick fix stuff that usually doesn't work in the long run. Remember, too that a new head coach means a new coaching staff....want to lose Joe and the others? You'll potentially lose players as well....remember they can transfer if there's a coaching change.
Personally, I think the program's stability in coaching brings an underlying confidence. Some of the losses this year were by slim margins and could have gone either way. Injuries hurt and put the year in jeopardy, but coming on strong at the end is what gave me confidence, and I think we're in pretty good hands and the future looks bright.

You may lose some players, but the new coach brings in new players, which might be better than what you lose. Yes, you lose coaches. No, I don't want to lose Joe Kleine, but you wouldn't have to. I suspect most any new young coach would be glad to have a Joe Kleine on the staff. He might even make a good head coach. Who knows that a new staff might be better coaches and recruiters than what we've got.

True, some of the losses were by slim margins, and some of the wins were by slim margins and could have gone the other way too.

As far as being in good hands, we're in the same hands we've been in for nine years. Five losing regular seasons out of nine. You're satisfied, that's why we're no better than we were when Shields took over.

Injuries are a part of the game. Most teams go through that at some point.

(04-03-2012 01:10 PM)LRTrojan Wrote:  

(04-03-2012 11:40 AM)roundball2239 Wrote:  [------------------------------------------------------------------
My reference was toward the statement that the SID is responsible for fannies in the seats.


From what I've seen so far, and I'll admit to that being little, the university president needs to put a huge push to market the university as a whole and the entire athletics program to the city. UALR's attendance problem certainly isn't unique. Yes, winning brings in some fans, but it's a culture change that needs to happen. You want the fans to stay around and contribute....win or lose. That doesn't happen overnight and a university needs to be committed to increasing the fanbase (and you can read that as donors).

Also, I can tell you from experience that bringing in a "Sizzle" coach most often leads to a really big "Fizzle". That's all quick fix stuff that usually doesn't work in the long run. Remember, too that a new head coach means a new coaching staff....want to lose Joe and the others? You'll potentially lose players as well....remember they can transfer if there's a coaching change.
Personally, I think the program's stability in coaching brings an underlying confidence. Some of the losses this year were by slim margins and could have gone either way. Injuries hurt and put the year in jeopardy, but coming on strong at the end is what gave me confidence, and I think we're in pretty good hands and the future looks bright.

You may lose some players, but the new coach brings in new players, which might be better than what you lose. Yes, you lose coaches. No, I don't want to lose Joe Kleine, but you wouldn't have to. I suspect most any new young coach would be glad to have a Joe Kleine on the staff. He might even make a good head coach. Who knows that a new staff might be better coaches and recruiters than what we've got.

True, some of the losses were by slim margins, and some of the wins were by slim margins and could have gone the other way too.

As far as being in good hands, we're in the same hands we've been in for nine years. Five losing regular seasons out of nine. You're satisfied, that's why we're no better than we were when Shields took over.

Injuries are a part of the game. Most teams go through that at some point.

I guess it's how you choose to look at it. Glass half full, or glass half empty. I see 5 Division championships plus an NCAA bid in 9 seasons. Don't see anyone in the league, except WKU, even close to that.

(04-03-2012 12:19 PM)mjs Wrote:  

(04-03-2012 11:40 AM)roundball2239 Wrote:  

(03-30-2012 06:51 PM)LRTrojan Wrote:  

(03-30-2012 03:47 PM)roundball2239 Wrote:  It's marketing that's responsible for that

That a ridiculous statement. You've got to have a good product to market. It's hard to market five losing seasons out of nine.
------------------------------------------------------------------
My reference was toward the statement that the SID is responsible for fannies in the seats.


From what I've seen so far, and I'll admit to that being little, the university president needs to put a huge push to market the university as a whole and the entire athletics program to the city. UALR's attendance problem certainly isn't unique. Yes, winning brings in some fans, but it's a culture change that needs to happen. You want the fans to stay around and contribute....win or lose. That doesn't happen overnight and a university needs to be committed to increasing the fanbase (and you can read that as donors).

Also, I can tell you from experience that bringing in a "Sizzle" coach most often leads to a really big "Fizzle". That's all quick fix stuff that usually doesn't work in the long run. Remember, too that a new head coach means a new coaching staff....want to lose Joe and the others? You'll potentially lose players as well....remember they can transfer if there's a coaching change.

Personally, I think the program's stability in coaching brings an underlying confidence. Some of the losses this year were by slim margins and could have gone either way. Injuries hurt and put the year in jeopardy, but coming on strong at the end is what gave me confidence, and I think we're in pretty good hands and the future looks bright.

Good post. Stability in a program is a good thing. Look what's gone on in Fayetteville with them changing coaches every few seasons. I agree with the "Coaches with sizzle often fizzle". Wish I had thought of that one. Usually those kinds of coaches tend to be self-promoters, more than anything, and will only take you so far until they are off to greener pastures. Also like you mentioned, a coaching change leads to transfers and typically sets the program back a couple of years. Thus it may be indicated after a 4-12 season, but not a 12-4 season.

The most successful programs at our level have traditionally had coaches move up the ladder in the coaching profession. That means they have had successful seasons, and that's why their coaches are sought after. See Western Kentucky in our own league for a prime example.

When you guys talk about "sizzle" I assume you are speaking of retreads like Brady at ASU or the like. Not young up and comers. To say that young up and comers are "self promoters" is just incorrect. That they are able to get better jobs is only indicitive of the winning record they have established. For me, I'd rather be accomplishing something that gets attention in the college basketball world with our program and run the risk of losing a coach, than be satisfied with just fielding a decent team from time to time.

I'm not advocating a coaching change, but let's be realistic about what our goals should be. We SHOULD want Steve Shields to be a hot commodity that bigger programs would like to hire.

And you keep referring to a 12-4 season. Did you just forget about the other 12 losses? Did they just magically disappear?

(04-03-2012 07:16 PM)PTJR Wrote:  

(04-03-2012 12:19 PM)mjs Wrote:  

(04-03-2012 11:40 AM)roundball2239 Wrote:  

(03-30-2012 06:51 PM)LRTrojan Wrote:  

(03-30-2012 03:47 PM)roundball2239 Wrote:  It's marketing that's responsible for that

That a ridiculous statement. You've got to have a good product to market. It's hard to market five losing seasons out of nine.
------------------------------------------------------------------
My reference was toward the statement that the SID is responsible for fannies in the seats.


From what I've seen so far, and I'll admit to that being little, the university president needs to put a huge push to market the university as a whole and the entire athletics program to the city. UALR's attendance problem certainly isn't unique. Yes, winning brings in some fans, but it's a culture change that needs to happen. You want the fans to stay around and contribute....win or lose. That doesn't happen overnight and a university needs to be committed to increasing the fanbase (and you can read that as donors).

Also, I can tell you from experience that bringing in a "Sizzle" coach most often leads to a really big "Fizzle". That's all quick fix stuff that usually doesn't work in the long run. Remember, too that a new head coach means a new coaching staff....want to lose Joe and the others? You'll potentially lose players as well....remember they can transfer if there's a coaching change.

Personally, I think the program's stability in coaching brings an underlying confidence. Some of the losses this year were by slim margins and could have gone either way. Injuries hurt and put the year in jeopardy, but coming on strong at the end is what gave me confidence, and I think we're in pretty good hands and the future looks bright.

Good post. Stability in a program is a good thing. Look what's gone on in Fayetteville with them changing coaches every few seasons. I agree with the "Coaches with sizzle often fizzle". Wish I had thought of that one. Usually those kinds of coaches tend to be self-promoters, more than anything, and will only take you so far until they are off to greener pastures. Also like you mentioned, a coaching change leads to transfers and typically sets the program back a couple of years. Thus it may be indicated after a 4-12 season, but not a 12-4 season.

The most successful programs at our level have traditionally had coaches move up the ladder in the coaching profession. That means they have had successful seasons, and that's why their coaches are sought after. See Western Kentucky in our own league for a prime example.

When you guys talk about "sizzle" I assume you are speaking of retreads like Brady at ASU or the like. Not young up and comers. To say that young up and comers are "self promoters" is just incorrect. That they are able to get better jobs is only indicitive of the winning record they have established. For me, I'd rather be accomplishing something that gets attention in the college basketball world with our program and run the risk of losing a coach, than be satisfied with just fielding a decent team from time to time.

I'm not advocating a coaching change, but let's be realistic about what our goals should be. We SHOULD want Steve Shields to be a hot commodity that bigger programs would like to hire.

And you keep referring to a 12-4 season. Did you just forget about the other 12 losses? Did they just magically disappear?

As far as I'm concerned they did. That was the preseason, exhibition season, or whatever you want to call it. Yes, normally I'd like to do a lot better in those games, but with our 3 leading scorers graduating and one of our toughest OOC schedule ever I didn't have particularly high expectations. We lost a bunch of close games due to lack of experience and leadership on the court.

(04-03-2012 08:44 PM)mjs Wrote:  

(04-03-2012 07:16 PM)PTJR Wrote:  

(04-03-2012 12:19 PM)mjs Wrote:  

(04-03-2012 11:40 AM)roundball2239 Wrote:  

(03-30-2012 06:51 PM)LRTrojan Wrote:  That a ridiculous statement. You've got to have a good product to market. It's hard to market five losing seasons out of nine.
------------------------------------------------------------------
My reference was toward the statement that the SID is responsible for fannies in the seats.


From what I've seen so far, and I'll admit to that being little, the university president needs to put a huge push to market the university as a whole and the entire athletics program to the city. UALR's attendance problem certainly isn't unique. Yes, winning brings in some fans, but it's a culture change that needs to happen. You want the fans to stay around and contribute....win or lose. That doesn't happen overnight and a university needs to be committed to increasing the fanbase (and you can read that as donors).

Also, I can tell you from experience that bringing in a "Sizzle" coach most often leads to a really big "Fizzle". That's all quick fix stuff that usually doesn't work in the long run. Remember, too that a new head coach means a new coaching staff....want to lose Joe and the others? You'll potentially lose players as well....remember they can transfer if there's a coaching change.

Personally, I think the program's stability in coaching brings an underlying confidence. Some of the losses this year were by slim margins and could have gone either way. Injuries hurt and put the year in jeopardy, but coming on strong at the end is what gave me confidence, and I think we're in pretty good hands and the future looks bright.

Good post. Stability in a program is a good thing. Look what's gone on in Fayetteville with them changing coaches every few seasons. I agree with the "Coaches with sizzle often fizzle". Wish I had thought of that one. Usually those kinds of coaches tend to be self-promoters, more than anything, and will only take you so far until they are off to greener pastures. Also like you mentioned, a coaching change leads to transfers and typically sets the program back a couple of years. Thus it may be indicated after a 4-12 season, but not a 12-4 season.

The most successful programs at our level have traditionally had coaches move up the ladder in the coaching profession. That means they have had successful seasons, and that's why their coaches are sought after. See Western Kentucky in our own league for a prime example.

When you guys talk about "sizzle" I assume you are speaking of retreads like Brady at ASU or the like. Not young up and comers. To say that young up and comers are "self promoters" is just incorrect. That they are able to get better jobs is only indicitive of the winning record they have established. For me, I'd rather be accomplishing something that gets attention in the college basketball world with our program and run the risk of losing a coach, than be satisfied with just fielding a decent team from time to time.

I'm not advocating a coaching change, but let's be realistic about what our goals should be. We SHOULD want Steve Shields to be a hot commodity that bigger programs would like to hire.

And you keep referring to a 12-4 season. Did you just forget about the other 12 losses? Did they just magically disappear?

As far as I'm concerned they did. That was the preseason, exhibition season, or whatever you want to call it. Yes, normally I'd like to do a lot better in those games, but with our 3 leading scorers graduating and one of our toughest OOC schedule ever I didn't have particularly high expectations. We lost a bunch of close games due to lack of experience and leadership on the court.

My point is that if you can just ignore the 12 losses from the non conference portion of the schedule and say we had a 12-4 season, wouldn't it be just as logical to ignore the conference portion of the schedule and say we had a 0-1 season since we were one and done in the SBC Tournament? I don't think you can just cherry pick the portion of the season you like and ignore everything else.

You guys are right about the losing long term but we have some upside going into next year. We have not had a lot to feel good about since the second year of fowler, smith, Patterson, muzz, edwards and moore.

Hell, when i think back on that team we had a real chance to win the sbc tournament if moore plays.

(04-03-2012 09:36 PM)insideualr Wrote:  You guys are right about the losing long term but we have some upside going into next year. We have not had a lot to feel good about since the second year of fowler, smith, Patterson, muzz, edwards and moore.

Hell, when i think back on that team we had a real chance to win the sbc tournament if moore plays.

I agree that the upside for next year may be good. Especially with WN returning after surgery. Don't know where we are on the point position though. Unproven.

My point on last year however is that it's not a fair assesment to just have a selective memory. Like the year before. Sure we made a great run in the SBC tourney, but before that we pretty much stunk.

This past season in the ooc we just did not know how to finish. We learned and won a lot of regular season conference games. I just never felt bad about the LOsing in the ooc this year. We were in the games and just could not close them out.

Pg is and issue but they feel like the fr is going to be able to play.... Ok, i can go along with it. The kid from strong is a scorer and here we go.

I'm not sure that Stetson's strength is his scoring, although I think it will be adequate, but from what I heard was that his real strength is his defensive ability. I'm sure he's a pretty good shooter, but some of his scoring is probably due to the fact that he's playing against lesser competition. The shooter is the kid Isom from Austin. He's the zone buster at 6'7" tall. But they both sound like great young additions to our program. Looking forward to seeing both of them on the court.

(04-03-2012 09:32 PM)PTJR Wrote:  My point is that if you can just ignore the 12 losses from the non conference portion of the schedule and say we had a 12-4 season, wouldn't it be just as logical to ignore the conference portion of the schedule and say we had a 0-1 season since we were one and done in the SBC Tournament? I don't think you can just cherry pick the portion of the season you like and ignore everything else.

I agree. We had a mediocre season. But in terms of what to expect going forward it was very promising.