(03-28-2012 09:18 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-28-2012 08:55 AM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  

(03-28-2012 07:34 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-28-2012 05:03 AM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  

(03-28-2012 02:27 AM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  What is reality these days? All of us MWC/CUSA fans know we are the rodney dangerfield's of the FBS, is this new news to our higher ups?

It isn't news to you as I know you have been fairly rational about this sort of thing but for so many that thought that this alliance idea in any way was going to make the schools left behind somehow as good or better than any AQ league may now start to "get it". I am sure many of the people that are guilty of this will now say they knew otherwise from the start but from just watching I can tell that if more of this type of news comes out the more people will realize just how close all the non-AQ is or they will become even more delusional than they are now. Time will tell which way each will go.

I wish some of you were actually close to us. I keep hearing all these benefits of having a regional league and how it's great for fans and everything else, and yet the 2 most regional non-AQ leagues have had the lowest attendance. The MAC schools are almost all within easy driving distance, and have been together for years and yet your conference average is like 15 or 16k. We can sell 50k tickets against UAB with 5 UAB fans in attendance and yet you guys can't manage to consistently pull 20k with almost all your members within several hours of each other? I thought all these rivalries and regional leagues were supposed to drive up attendance?

Lol the funny thing is that you think that bothers me. I have no illusions on what my school is and what its benefits and problems are. See I know my school has attendance issues. I don't hide it. I don't pretend that it does not exist or that changing conferences or the like is going to make any difference in that regard. We compete and frankly compete very well considering how we do in the director's cup and how we have won the award for doing the most for spending the least. Most of all I am proud that we (Kent State) do this with a spotless clean record. I am also proud of being in the conference with the best graduation rate in FBS. The MAC still mostly acts in ways the rest keep saying they want, you know less emphasis on money and more about the student athlete, but as soon as people see it they mock it because then they want the sort of success that the money and power brings. Good luck trying to get both in that regard. The school isn't there to serve the athletics the athletics are to serve the school.

Would I like more butts in the seats? Sure that is fine but if I had a choice between attendance and having competitive teams I will take competitive teams every time (fortunately that is not generally a one or the other choice).

Well good I'm glad you're happy with the group your with. You are with your peer group, the schools that you institutionally, financially, and regionally belong with. We are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, trying to find the group we fit with. Trying to find the schools who value what we value and who are striving for the same things we are. I'd love there to be a MAC'esque league in the Mid-Atlantic region that had a group of schools similar to us. My long term goal is that if we never get an invite to something above where we currently are that the quality FCS teams in our region grow into that. I think ODU, JMU, App, Delaware, Georgia State and Charlotte all eventually could, but that's years away if it ever happens.

I think you are having a different conversation here. I am not commenting at all about your lack of regional foes in your conference. I don't care about that. You can be in a the MWC for all I care it would be silly but I personally don't care if you are in a regional league or a more national looking one. My comment had nothing to do with that. My comment is more about the attitude that "we are so much better than you" when frankly after looking at it competitively most of the schools can't really say that. The old MWC I would let it slide though not anymore. CUSA no way. Obviously the MAC, Belt, and can't say it either. Overall the differences between the non-AQ leagues is similar to how the AQ leagues compare to each other particularly in football.

(03-28-2012 09:28 AM)NoQuarter08 Wrote:  Good Lord, just everybody merge into CUSA and get this shitshow over with. This is getting really old.

Only other option is for CUSA to be a FB only league for the MWC teams while everybody collects their exit fees.

Yeah at this point all the options kinda suck, pick the one that sucks the least and move on. We're all just short term riding this garbage out until the next wave of expansion hits anyway. The B12 will eventually go back to 12, someone will go to 16, and then this all starts back again. May take 5 years, 10 years, or one year who knows. Just get some kind of settlement until the sh*t hits the fan again.

(03-28-2012 09:38 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-28-2012 09:28 AM)NoQuarter08 Wrote:  Good Lord, just everybody merge into CUSA and get this shitshow over with. This is getting really old.

Only other option is for CUSA to be a FB only league for the MWC teams while everybody collects their exit fees.

Yeah at this point all the options kinda suck, pick the one that sucks the least and move on. We're all just short term riding this garbage out until the next wave of expansion hits anyway. The B12 will eventually go back to 12, someone will go to 16, and then this all starts back again. May take 5 years, 10 years, or one year who knows. Just get some kind of settlement until the sh*t hits the fan again.

It's funny, in some ways, if the Big 12 is going to go up to 12 teams- I'd prefer for them to do it now. That way, we don't have a reprise of the last 21 months all over again 1-5 years from now...

If they decide to stay separate now but dissolve later, they'll lose the NCAA credits.

Not a lot of good options on the table for any of the teams.

How about adding a few non-football members and beefing up that side of the conference?

(03-28-2012 09:36 AM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  

(03-28-2012 09:18 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-28-2012 08:55 AM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  

(03-28-2012 07:34 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-28-2012 05:03 AM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  It isn't news to you as I know you have been fairly rational about this sort of thing but for so many that thought that this alliance idea in any way was going to make the schools left behind somehow as good or better than any AQ league may now start to "get it". I am sure many of the people that are guilty of this will now say they knew otherwise from the start but from just watching I can tell that if more of this type of news comes out the more people will realize just how close all the non-AQ is or they will become even more delusional than they are now. Time will tell which way each will go.

I wish some of you were actually close to us. I keep hearing all these benefits of having a regional league and how it's great for fans and everything else, and yet the 2 most regional non-AQ leagues have had the lowest attendance. The MAC schools are almost all within easy driving distance, and have been together for years and yet your conference average is like 15 or 16k. We can sell 50k tickets against UAB with 5 UAB fans in attendance and yet you guys can't manage to consistently pull 20k with almost all your members within several hours of each other? I thought all these rivalries and regional leagues were supposed to drive up attendance?

Lol the funny thing is that you think that bothers me. I have no illusions on what my school is and what its benefits and problems are. See I know my school has attendance issues. I don't hide it. I don't pretend that it does not exist or that changing conferences or the like is going to make any difference in that regard. We compete and frankly compete very well considering how we do in the director's cup and how we have won the award for doing the most for spending the least. Most of all I am proud that we (Kent State) do this with a spotless clean record. I am also proud of being in the conference with the best graduation rate in FBS. The MAC still mostly acts in ways the rest keep saying they want, you know less emphasis on money and more about the student athlete, but as soon as people see it they mock it because then they want the sort of success that the money and power brings. Good luck trying to get both in that regard. The school isn't there to serve the athletics the athletics are to serve the school.

Would I like more butts in the seats? Sure that is fine but if I had a choice between attendance and having competitive teams I will take competitive teams every time (fortunately that is not generally a one or the other choice).

Well good I'm glad you're happy with the group your with. You are with your peer group, the schools that you institutionally, financially, and regionally belong with. We are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, trying to find the group we fit with. Trying to find the schools who value what we value and who are striving for the same things we are. I'd love there to be a MAC'esque league in the Mid-Atlantic region that had a group of schools similar to us. My long term goal is that if we never get an invite to something above where we currently are that the quality FCS teams in our region grow into that. I think ODU, JMU, App, Delaware, Georgia State and Charlotte all eventually could, but that's years away if it ever happens.

I think you are having a different conversation here. I am not commenting at all about your lack of regional foes in your conference. I don't care about that. You can be in a the MWC for all I care it would be silly but I personally don't care if you are in a regional league or a more national looking one. My comment had nothing to do with that. My comment is more about the attitude that "we are so much better than you" when frankly after looking at it competitively most of the schools can't really say that. The old MWC I would let it slide though not anymore. CUSA no way. Obviously the MAC, Belt, and can't say it either. Overall the differences between the non-AQ leagues is similar to how the AQ leagues compare to each other particularly in football.

I guess we were talking about different things. I desire to be in a league with schools who have similar support levels to us, and you are saying that all of us from a competitive standpoint are relatively close. For the most part that's probably true in football. My overall disgust level isn't with the competition level of the teams, but the lack of fan support. It has bothered me to no end for years that we'll play home games in a big time atmosphere and then go on the road and play in front of 5k fans and I just think are we striving for the same things? How many people really care about what these schools do on the field? Why should I care about them if they can't find more than 15k people in their area to care? Football is a weekend long event at ECU, and it seems to be an afterthought at 90% of non-AQ schools. It's probably why I'm much less negative about App than most ECU fans are. I think their view of football is similar to ours, and they remind me of where we were support and facility wise 20 or so years ago. My goal is for us to find whatever group of non-AQ's/FCS schools are left that have this same attitude and commitment level and join with them.

Right I have no problem with you wanting to play against teams with large followings. That is fine. It isn't what I value but that is fine I don't expect you to value everything the same way I do. If it makes you happy to play App play them. If it makes you happy to play USM play them. If it makes you happy playing Fresno State play them. I am fine with any of those. I dislike the attitude where non-AQ teams treat each other like the AQ treats us. We are all non-AQ and should treat each other with respect that we all deserve. Sure some have better teams now, some had historically good teams, some are very competitive in general, others bring lots of fans, and some are just trying to find their niche/get started.

As an example I don't mind that UCF left the MAC. Them leaving to join a league that frankly makes much more sense in about every way is a fine reason to leave a conference (particularly for geography). If one of their fans were to say they left because the "MAC sucks" then I would take issue with it mostly due to that being a revisionist history of the time as the MAC was doing well such as Miami beating Louisville and being very highly ranked (if it was under the current rules they could have been a BCS buster). Granted I don't tend to see that problem with UCF fans with the MAC probably due to the fact that the geography/culture reason was so important to them leaving.

How about everyone in both leagues go "Independent" in football, schedule each other and work out a TV agreement for football together?

(03-28-2012 10:16 AM)NoQuarter08 Wrote:  How about everyone in both leagues go "Independent" in football, schedule each other and work out a TV agreement for football together?

You could do that, but the issue would become that could not have any championship game. Also the TV agreement may become a sticking point.....

Also- both conferences existing deals would be down to nothing in the other sports.

You could probably sell the TV deal for the "indy league" for a decent amount of money I would think? I really have no idea, I'm just shite full of this crap at this point. Honestly it's really discouraging knowing this is our "best option."

yeah I can imagine. I really do hope all this realignment crap just ends for a long term period.

(03-28-2012 10:24 AM)stever20 Wrote:  yeah I can imagine. I really do hope all this realignment crap just ends for a long term period.

I can't say I feel that way. We need more things to continue to happen and options to eventually open up. I don't like the unknown, but the proposition of what we are looking at isn't something that's going to be a long term positive for us. What realistically is going to get worse for us at this point? A lot more shifting needs to happen and we need to finally be at the right place at the right time.

I don't think I would define long term as being even 10 years. I'm talking even about like 5 years.. Just to give everyone a chance to breath and see how these configurations work. Does even the 14 team conference work in SEC, ACC? How does the Pac 12/Big Ten combo start working together? Then, whatever becomes with the current non-aq's.

(03-28-2012 07:58 AM)jaredf29 Wrote:  I'm still waiting for them to destroy the deathstar.

Well if Air Force Stays we'd have the air ships. If we go for the Rebel Alliance as a name we can put the logo on said ships.

About all we are lacking is a name and some Ewoks to take down the shield generator.

(03-28-2012 02:27 AM)TOGC Wrote:  

(03-28-2012 01:36 AM)OldGoldnBlue Wrote:  So basically they still have no idea what the hell they are going to do or are doing? Gotcha.

Any endeavor with Craig Thompson and Britton Banowsky in charge is doomed to epic failure. I am so glad that Memphis will be joining the Big East and will not be part of that pit of despair.

Gotta agree with TOG. These guys are starting to look Big East-ish. They need to pull the trigger or end it.

(03-28-2012 10:16 AM)NoQuarter08 Wrote:  How about everyone in both leagues go "Independent" in football, schedule each other and work out a TV agreement for football together?

I was thinking about this kind of thing at the dentist. What if you had an "airport meeting" at the C-USA/MWC presidents' meeting? Break the top programs off and leave the dead weight behind?

I had been looking at the games available from the MWC and C-USA teams, and figured that together you would put together a Game of the Week package, with the top 3 C-USA conference game, top 3 MWC games, top 3 interconference matchups, and some OOC home games like Army/Navy @ AFA, ACC @ ECU, 2 Hawaii games, a USM game, and whatever random Alliance team scores a return date from a power conference team, like Nebraska @ Wyoming this year. Maybe that package gets $1-2M per game?

At the dentist I was thinking, if the Alliance isn't going to get a $3M per school contract, what if you did skim off the top programs from the Alliance by attendance/audience, what would you get? Hawaii, Fresno State, Air Force, USM, ECU.....and nothing. But if those 5 plus BYU and Navy agreed on a round-robin, that gives you 6 of your 12 games with plenty of room for traditional rivals, cupcakes, tough games, whatever strategy your AD wants to follow.

What kind of TV deals would that group get? There's no reason that they couldn't package their TV rights together, even though they're not technically a conference. There's no reason the "Group of 7" couldn't act as a conference for bowl purposes, either.

'Course, you'd have to get everybody in the "Group of 7" to A) Trust each other not to jump at a conference invite and at the same time B) abandon their conference mates to Sun Belt and WAC mergers with basically zero TV money.

(03-28-2012 02:27 AM)TOGC Wrote:  

(03-28-2012 01:36 AM)OldGoldnBlue Wrote:  So basically they still have no idea what the hell they are going to do or are doing? Gotcha.

Any endeavor with Craig Thompson and Britton Banowsky in charge is doomed to epic failure. I am so glad that Memphis will be joining the Big East and will not be part of that pit of despair.

Hilarious. We feel the same way about Meatball and the BE.

(03-28-2012 08:36 AM)stever20 Wrote:  The issue with doing just that- it'd require the leagues to play independent of each other in the 2013-14 season, which is something they don't want to do(TV contracts would be reduced due to the exiting schools).

But, with the right lawyers, aren't the C-USA teams protected against the reduced TV contract? If C-USA stays pat, and the television gets reduced, doesn't that make it clear cut what Memphis, Houston, UCF and SMU owe in exit fees because of the loss of future television revenues?

Big East was a lot more proactive than CUSA/MWC have been....

Pitt/Syr left in Sept- TCU left in early Oct, WV in late Oct. By December, 5 new members were aboard.

Big East now has 13 football/18 basketball.

(03-28-2012 10:32 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-28-2012 10:24 AM)stever20 Wrote:  yeah I can imagine. I really do hope all this realignment crap just ends for a long term period.

I can't say I feel that way. We need more things to continue to happen and options to eventually open up. I don't like the unknown, but the proposition of what we are looking at isn't something that's going to be a long term positive for us. What realistically is going to get worse for us at this point? A lot more shifting needs to happen and we need to finally be at the right place at the right time.

My hope is when LSU and Alabama join the NFC South, that enough dominoes fall so Fresno, ECU, S.Miss can get in the Big East.

I love watching this over the last 22 years. I follow every conf in D-I, D-II, D-III, NAIA so I get to see more action that most don't care about.

(03-28-2012 12:53 PM)OldGoldnBlue Wrote:  

(03-28-2012 02:27 AM)TOGC Wrote:  

(03-28-2012 01:36 AM)OldGoldnBlue Wrote:  So basically they still have no idea what the hell they are going to do or are doing? Gotcha.

Any endeavor with Craig Thompson and Britton Banowsky in charge is doomed to epic failure. I am so glad that Memphis will be joining the Big East and will not be part of that pit of despair.

Hilarious. We feel the same way about Meatball and the BE.

Except Meatball improved the conference. WV was the only real loss in FB and BSU makes up for that. Syracuse was a loss in BB, but Memphis and Temple make up for that.

The folks in the Alliance are looking at taking a pay CUT in their television contracts. The nBE teams are looking at a pay RAISE in theirs.