The Supreme Court has held that Humanism (not to be confused with humanitarian) is a religion. Using interpolation, any belief system or system of disbelief is one's religion.

(03-12-2012 06:04 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  I'm going to start this, and I may regret it. What is your stance on it? Topics include:

-Religion as a force for good or bad
-... in politics
-... in world affairs
-... in the lives of everyday people, and how far it should govern them.
-... in response to the receding trends of the newer generations, i.e. Less and less young people associate with any faith and more older generations are claiming lack of any faith

Try to keep it civilized.

Religion is a force for good in general, but NO DOUBT it can, and often has, been used negatively. BTW, I watched that whole debate a couple months ago. My stance is that the Catholic Church no doubt lost it's way and did some awful things in the middle ages. No doubt in modern times, they have some crooked clergyman. I recognize those examples can be brought up, but in modern times, it's still for the most part a force for good imo.

In politics - I have a problem with people voting for politicians solely BECAUSE of what religion they associate with. I think voters should just focus on a candidate's stance on the political issues. After all, that's what they're in charge of, not the nation's religion or anything. I have a problem with politicians bragging and boasting about their faith, or using it for political gain. I can't stand discrimination based on religion i.e. all the anti-muslim rhetoric being thrown around. I just envision a country in which all religions are treated equal and practiced freely with only minor policing to make sure basic laws are followed (i.e. no honor killings). Yeah, muslim extremists suck, but christians have extremists too.

In lives of everyday people - I think this is what it's all about and it's an all-in-all a great thing. No real gripes.

recent trends - I'll throw it out there that I'm a christian, so it's a bit disheartening for me. I believe it's had a negative impact on society. Somebody brought up the example of teen pregnancy, STDs are also on the rise, among other things that I don't feel like pulling up the numbers for. Many of these negative impacts would be lessened with an increase involvement with religion. I'd be interested to get an athiest's perspective on this. I think even an athiest would agree, I anticipate the arguement would be that while that may be true, more religious involvement would do more harm than good, or that there are other solutions better than religion.

The problem with religion, BB, is that everyone is so sure that they - amd only they - have the correct view of religion. That and the inability to see anything from any view other than their own...

But I wonder if people haven't gotten it all wrong. If you believe in God, and you believe he created all the diverse lifeforms, why wouldn't he choose more than one way for his children to be shown his greatness over the centuries? God likes diversity. Why does there have to be one right religion? What if they're all correct, and we're too narrow minded to see it? If that's the case, all these holy wars are nothing but blasphemy...

God likes diversity? Why do you say that? Not that I disagree, just wondering how you came to it.

As to multiple avenues, the question here is contradiction.

Look at the myriad forms of life on the planet. I'll bet you can't name half the species of plants or animals. There are numerous races of man, and each with their own distinctive characteristics. There are multiple forms of rock and earth, and each carries the signature of the place where it formed. Each star has its own unique light signature. No 2 mountains are the same...

I could go on. But I think you get the point. If you believe in religion, and you believe God created all of existence, then you'd have to say God likes diversity. Otherwise, why create so many forms?

I don't think existence equates to preference. It depends on what kind of creator he is. Maybe he's all-powerful, but totally reckless. Maybe he created by accident. I think nature shows us there is a creator, but we need more than nature to discern his character.

If you follow religious doctrine, the almighty's thought processes are beyond us and unknowable. Pondering about the unknowable is ludicrous...

First off, that's not entirely true. Second, you just assumed to know part of his thought processes (that he likes diversity). I'm saying that you cant know that unless it is revealed to you. The blind men with an elephant analogy is a bad one because the varied conceptions of god/gods are mutually exclusive. To reject that, you must adhere to bits and pieces of each faith and reject chunks of each faith. And the method for that decision is almost always personal preference.

God does like diversity. Just look around at his creation. If you can't see all the diversity, and are so certain of God's thoughts, you are deluding yourself. Only an idiot thinks he knows the mind of God - and if you're hearing God's voice, I'd advise you to seek psychiatric help...

I'll give you points for snarkiness, but you are jumping to unmerited conclusions. I never said God doesn't like diversity. I know that he does from Genesis (revelation). Your assumption that he does is rather arbitrary. You prefer that he does, so you see that there is variety and assume your preference is reality.

(05-09-2012 08:00 AM)johnnylightnin Wrote:  I'll give you points for snarkiness, but you are jumping to unmerited conclusions. I never said God doesn't like diversity. I know that he does from Genesis (revelation). Your assumption that he does is rather arbitrary. You prefer that he does, so you see that there is variety and assume your preference is reality.

The Bible isn't the only source of information on the creation of the Earth. I've read 'em all, and been trained in the geological sciences too. I see multiple forms of everything everywhere. The observational evidence is overwhelming. Words written several thousand years ago, that have been translated over and over, really have no relevance in the face of that...

You're just proving my point. "Revelation" is of no value to you, so you make god in your own image. That's fine, but don't act like its iron clad because you said so.

I don't believe in God. IMO God was created by MAN in his image. I'm merely pointing out the futility of some people's thinking...

You certainly seem to have a firm grasp on futility.

You try surviving everything I have, and then see what your position is. I've already been declared dead 3 times, yet I'm still here...

I'm glad you're still here. Objective truth is not subject to your experiences.

Observational evidence leading me to a conclusion is objective thought. What the truth is hasn't been determined...

The fact that you think the truth has been determined is very informative...

Determined? You sound like a theist. Truth is objective. It doesn't need to be determined. If there is a god, there is a god. His existence and your suffering are not mutually exclusive (well, not of he's the God of the Bible).

God is the Devil

There are no foxholes in athiests.