(03-14-2012 09:08 AM)templefootballfan Wrote:  there is 2 things wrong with your mini playoff for MAC, kit
if alliance goes to 24, Mass & 3 MAC schools are gone [Buffalo, Ohio, Toledo]
Alliance wants to use thier 5 games that are except from playing in Haw, for playoff.
alliance is trying to get games assighned to conf instead of individual schools

Don't see value in a mini-playoff...also the alliance can get to 24 without ANY schools from the MAC...

Although the Alliance is in the infant stages, the one short list posted of schools they are targeting didn't have any MAC schools on it, so its great to speak on how the MAC schools should stay together, but they will stay together by default anyway if there are no other options besides going independent...

Also, if the Alliance fails due some schools separating themselves by athletic "superiority", then the Alliance will at least be a success for those schools...

(03-14-2012 10:42 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 09:27 AM)HuskieJohn Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 09:22 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 09:19 AM)HuskieJohn Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 09:08 AM)templefootballfan Wrote:  there is 2 things wrong with your mini playoff for MAC, kit
if alliance goes to 24, Mass & 3 MAC schools are gone [Buffalo, Ohio, Toledo]
Alliance wants to use thier 5 games that are except from playing in Haw, for playoff.
alliance is trying to get games assighned to conf instead of individual schools

Would the alliance really want Ohio? Their TV market is so much smaller and that seems to be their #1 concern with adding teams. Akron, Miami, Kent St, NIU and BSU all have better TV markets than Ohio.

I would think Ohio would be their *TOP* target in the conference. Screw the market they have very good hoops and pretty good football.. And oh yea are a natural rival for Marshall.

Do you think Ohio leave without Miami?

Im not sure any MAC school goes. People keep talking about all the prestige and money in the Alliance but people need to realize a couple of things.

The CUSA-MWC contracts even if doubles would still be just a fraction of MAC Budgets as a whole. For UB an extra 2 million, while nice, is only a 10% increase in the budget. A good chunk, half or more, of that will get eaten up by more travel.

The prestige? Sorry it's gone. You have a couple of very good programs in ECU and Southern Miss. You also have some good hoops here and there but on the hole the alliance is a push in terms of power.

Then there is stability, and culture! The MAC has both things above any mid major conference.

All of this might not factor into the head of your average fan but you can bet that AD's take it into account.

The last time someone tried a mega conference with pods it fell apart due to competing agenda's. Does anyone really think in two years Fresno and ECU will find themselves on the same page?

There are plenty of things you are very right about in this post, but I actually think Fresno and ECU would find themselves on the same page a lot more than you think. There are a bunch of similarities between our 2 universities, and our core philosophies and focuses in terms of sports we concentrate on and scheduling principles are very similar. I've always wanted to play Fresno, as I view them pretty much as the west coast version of us. The rest of your points for the most part are concerns and weaknesses we have to work to overcome. There's a lot of talk of the merger getting a grant of TV rights from all it's members to start. That's really the only way I see this thing having a chance to work long term. Without it I probably give the thing 10 years max to last. ECU pretty much has to ride this out until either enough of the regional FCS teams have made it up to FBS to form a league or there is finally a shift in what makes teams valuable to leagues from just TV markets to something more tangible.

(03-14-2012 12:13 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 10:42 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 09:27 AM)HuskieJohn Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 09:22 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 09:19 AM)HuskieJohn Wrote:  Would the alliance really want Ohio? Their TV market is so much smaller and that seems to be their #1 concern with adding teams. Akron, Miami, Kent St, NIU and BSU all have better TV markets than Ohio.

I would think Ohio would be their *TOP* target in the conference. Screw the market they have very good hoops and pretty good football.. And oh yea are a natural rival for Marshall.

Do you think Ohio leave without Miami?

Im not sure any MAC school goes. People keep talking about all the prestige and money in the Alliance but people need to realize a couple of things.

The CUSA-MWC contracts even if doubles would still be just a fraction of MAC Budgets as a whole. For UB an extra 2 million, while nice, is only a 10% increase in the budget. A good chunk, half or more, of that will get eaten up by more travel.

The prestige? Sorry it's gone. You have a couple of very good programs in ECU and Southern Miss. You also have some good hoops here and there but on the hole the alliance is a push in terms of power.

Then there is stability, and culture! The MAC has both things above any mid major conference.

All of this might not factor into the head of your average fan but you can bet that AD's take it into account.

The last time someone tried a mega conference with pods it fell apart due to competing agenda's. Does anyone really think in two years Fresno and ECU will find themselves on the same page?

There are plenty of things you are very right about in this post, but I actually think Fresno and ECU would find themselves on the same page a lot more than you think. There are a bunch of similarities between our 2 universities, and our core philosophies and focuses in terms of sports we concentrate on and scheduling principles are very similar. I've always wanted to play Fresno, as I view them pretty much as the west coast version of us. The rest of your points for the most part are concerns and weaknesses we have to work to overcome. There's a lot of talk of the merger getting a grant of TV rights from all it's members to start. That's really the only way I see this thing having a chance to work long term. Without it I probably give the thing 10 years max to last. ECU pretty much has to ride this out until either enough of the regional FCS teams have made it up to FBS to form a league or there is finally a shift in what makes teams valuable to leagues from just TV markets to something more tangible.

I just picked two names, two of the more distant names. Im sure even if ECU and Fresno are on the same page there will be "camps"

(03-14-2012 12:32 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  I just picked two names, two of the more distant names. Im sure even if ECU and Fresno are on the same page there will be "camps"

I'm sure there will be camps of some sorts, but from a competitive and financial standpoint there are a lot of similarities between the the C-USA schools and the MWC schools. There are so many unknowns right now that it makes it hard to know what the final product is going to be. The MAC has a very good thing going for itself and I could completely understand why few if any of you guys would be interested. I wouldn't be huge into the idea of giving up a place that had been a stable, long term, regional home for something that at this moment is a complete unknown. The WAC schools obviously are desperate, and many of the Sun-Belt schools would consider being associated with ECU, USM, and Tulsa to be a big upgrade for them, and a lower risk proposition as if the entire thing fails they can just stick with the eastern/central leftovers.

(03-14-2012 12:13 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  I actually think Fresno and ECU would find themselves on the same page a lot more than you think. There are a bunch of similarities between our 2 universities, and our core philosophies and focuses in terms of sports we concentrate on and scheduling principles are very similar. I've always wanted to play Fresno, as I view them pretty much as the west coast version of us.

If ECU is going to hitch a wagon to Fresno State, you deserve the trouble it'll cause ya...

(03-12-2012 04:12 PM)DogTracks Wrote:  

(03-12-2012 03:43 PM)HuskieJohn Wrote:  http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball...mwc-league

"The schools that have been in contact with either league are: Idaho, Louisiana Tech, New Mexico State, San Jose State, Texas State, Texas-San Antonio and Utah State from the WAC; Florida Atlantic, Florida International and North Texas from the Sun Belt; and Charlotte from the Atlantic 10."

My takeaway is that no one in the WAC actually wants to be there. Which isn't terribly surprising.

Also not surprising- that no one in the MAC reached out.

Not surprising but sad. The WAC has a long history and has produced some terific programs. Arizona, Arizona State, Fresno State, Hawaii, Boise State, Nevada, BYU, Utah. That's a ton of talent.

But as has been posted here, what programs besides Utah State and LaTech that are current WAC members would any other league want?

(03-12-2012 04:26 PM)HuskieJohn Wrote:  

(03-12-2012 04:19 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(03-12-2012 04:12 PM)HuskieJohn Wrote:  

(03-12-2012 03:58 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  The MWC's elitist attitude will hasten their demise.

The MWC teams that are left are not that much superior to the WAC. Merge and get it over with. The resulting conference will be interesting and competitive.

LT needs to get themselves in a better travel situation.

Absolutely. CUSA's arrogance isn't helping them either.

The new Big West (in no particular order): Wyo, CSU, AF, UNM, NMSU, UTEP, UNLV, UNR, Idaho, Fresno St, SJSU, USU...and BYU and Hawaii as need be.

The new CUSA: UAB, Marshall, So Miss, Tulane, La Tech, Rice, Tulsa, N. Texas, Ark St...and ECU if mutually agreed. Missouri St is a viable alternate.

BYU turned down a B12 and BE invite why would they go back to a conference with those teams?

I see AF & Co St getting a BE invite by this time next year for the 2015 season and Fresno St as soon as Louisville accepts an invite to the B12 or ACC.

Hawaii should get a BE football only invite as well and possibly Nevada if the BE needs them for numbers.

(03-14-2012 01:35 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 12:13 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  I actually think Fresno and ECU would find themselves on the same page a lot more than you think. There are a bunch of similarities between our 2 universities, and our core philosophies and focuses in terms of sports we concentrate on and scheduling principles are very similar. I've always wanted to play Fresno, as I view them pretty much as the west coast version of us.

If ECU is going to hitch a wagon to Fresno State, you deserve the trouble it'll cause ya...

Who are we realistically supposed to hitch our wagon to? The only non-AQ schools anywhere near us who have anywhere comparable fan support and history are USM and Marshall. That's really about it, and even the both of them average in the high 20k to low 30k while we are around 50k. The rest of the current FBS schools in our general area are lucky to average 20k in real attendance, and most probably in real butts in the seats get 5 to 10k. We don't have a peer group for the most part. We just have to hitch our wagon to whatever is left, and try to sell it to our fan base that we aren't being marginalized and left behind even though it's the truth.

(03-13-2012 10:08 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-13-2012 10:02 AM)HuskieJohn Wrote:  

(03-13-2012 09:59 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-13-2012 08:35 AM)exCincy Kid Wrote:  ECU is in a tough spot...C-USA's far flung geography doesn't suit you all that well, and I don't see how the "Alliance" makes matters any better (I guess they are considering a 3 division split to help with travel, etc.) The support you have for your football program dwarfs any other program in C-USA but unless the BE comes a calling I guess I don't know where you can go. When I knock the C-USA posters for their superiority complex I am not directing that at ECU followers as you guys have a legit "beef" with how things have turned out for you so far.

To be honest there are many who talk that C-USA would be better to merge with the Sun-Belt to decrease travel, and for most it would, but for ECU that wouldn't be any real benefit. ECU would be better off if that was going to happen to try to join the MAC FB only (not that I think that would happen). ECU's closer to more of the MAC schools than the Sun-Belt schools.

Not that it will happen but Marshall and ECU joining the MAC would make the most sense overall.

In certain ways it would, but aside from many ECU fans not handling a perceived drop in conference perception well the MAC's mid week scheduling would be a big sticking point for ECU. ECU fought playing mid-week home games in C-USA, and is fighting that happening in the new merger.

Well, it's not just the non AQ's that are playing mid week. The ACC & BE play alot of Thurs & Fri games. What's not hard to take is the $6,000,000 windfall the MAC is getting from the BE for letter Temple leave early.

(03-13-2012 11:31 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-13-2012 10:27 AM)axeme Wrote:  

(03-13-2012 10:08 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-13-2012 10:02 AM)HuskieJohn Wrote:  

(03-13-2012 09:59 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  To be honest there are many who talk that C-USA would be better to merge with the Sun-Belt to decrease travel, and for most it would, but for ECU that wouldn't be any real benefit. ECU would be better off if that was going to happen to try to join the MAC FB only (not that I think that would happen). ECU's closer to more of the MAC schools than the Sun-Belt schools.

Not that it will happen but Marshall and ECU joining the MAC would make the most sense overall.

In certain ways it would, but aside from many ECU fans not handling a perceived drop in conference perception well the MAC's mid week scheduling would be a big sticking point for ECU. ECU fought playing mid-week home games in C-USA, and is fighting that happening in the new merger.

The ACC has mid-week games, too. There will be more and more games Mon-Fri in the future as TV demands more product to sell. They need to spread out the games, not have them all on Saturday afternoon and evening.

It's one of those things that I'm sure for the right amount of money we'd be willing to bend on, like ACC/BE money, but C-USA didn't make the money necessary to make us willing to alienate our fan base, and the MAC doesn't either. We worked with the league and were more than willing to play several on the road, but with the number you guys play I don't think we'd be able to manage to only play them on the road. That's always going to be a sticking point for ECU. I don't in any way mean for this to sound like I am insulting the MAC, just the idea of mid-week games in general outside of Thursday night.

Remember though that the only midweek games the MAC plays are in November and in Tday week some MAC programs do play Saturday although most play Friday which really isn't a bad deal.

(03-13-2012 02:45 PM)DetroitRocket Wrote:  How does the BE remain a BCS conference if they lose their best FB teams and replace them with teams that are not nearly as good?

Quite honestly Pitt & Syracuse are not much of a loss for football, hoops is another matter. Been decades since Syracuse mattered in BE football and Pitt hasn't won an outright title in a long time. Looking back on the teams that have left the BE

1) Miami, first few years in the ACC were a top program but have fallen off the face of the earth the last 5 and are now on probation

2) VT- solid program, best ACC football program. This is a BE Loss

3) BC- much like Miami had a solid start in the ACC but have fallen off the face of the earth the last 5 years and Spaziano is fighting for this job in 2012, one more non bowl season and he is gone.

With adding BSU, Houston, Navy & possibly AFA; it's a wash if not a slight upgrade for the BE

(03-14-2012 03:43 PM)onlinepole Wrote:  

(03-12-2012 04:12 PM)DogTracks Wrote:  

(03-12-2012 03:43 PM)HuskieJohn Wrote:  http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball...mwc-league

"The schools that have been in contact with either league are: Idaho, Louisiana Tech, New Mexico State, San Jose State, Texas State, Texas-San Antonio and Utah State from the WAC; Florida Atlantic, Florida International and North Texas from the Sun Belt; and Charlotte from the Atlantic 10."

My takeaway is that no one in the WAC actually wants to be there. Which isn't terribly surprising.

Also not surprising- that no one in the MAC reached out.

Not surprising but sad. The WAC has a long history and has produced some terific programs. Arizona, Arizona State, Fresno State, Hawaii, Boise State, Nevada, BYU, Utah. That's a ton of talent.

But as has been posted here, what programs besides Utah State and LaTech that are current WAC members would any other league want?

UTSA is wanted by the SB

I think the alliance has real interest in TX St & San Jose St.

Idahos only realistic option is to drop back down to FCS if they don't get an alliance invite.

New Mexico St is between a rock and a hard place. I doubt that New Mexico wants them in the same conference but that is really the only place for them other than the SB.

Like the ODU & JMU to the MAC for all sports idea. The MAC getting a foothold in a fast growing state adjacent to the current footprint is very attractive. VA's population grew by 1M in the 2000's, putting them in 12th place.

(03-14-2012 03:53 PM)onlinepole Wrote:  

(03-13-2012 11:31 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-13-2012 10:27 AM)axeme Wrote:  

(03-13-2012 10:08 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-13-2012 10:02 AM)HuskieJohn Wrote:  Not that it will happen but Marshall and ECU joining the MAC would make the most sense overall.

In certain ways it would, but aside from many ECU fans not handling a perceived drop in conference perception well the MAC's mid week scheduling would be a big sticking point for ECU. ECU fought playing mid-week home games in C-USA, and is fighting that happening in the new merger.

The ACC has mid-week games, too. There will be more and more games Mon-Fri in the future as TV demands more product to sell. They need to spread out the games, not have them all on Saturday afternoon and evening.

It's one of those things that I'm sure for the right amount of money we'd be willing to bend on, like ACC/BE money, but C-USA didn't make the money necessary to make us willing to alienate our fan base, and the MAC doesn't either. We worked with the league and were more than willing to play several on the road, but with the number you guys play I don't think we'd be able to manage to only play them on the road. That's always going to be a sticking point for ECU. I don't in any way mean for this to sound like I am insulting the MAC, just the idea of mid-week games in general outside of Thursday night.

Remember though that the only midweek games the MAC plays are in November and in Tday week some MAC programs do play Saturday although most play Friday which really isn't a bad deal.

We just have some issues that will always be issues with mid-week games. For the 2 Thursday Night home games we have played we had to close campus early because during the week the main FB parking lots are used as student parking. Also a local middle school and elementary school, each of which neighbor the stadium, have to close early because each of their campuses are parking lots for games. Then we have the issue that a majority of our fan base commutes 2 hours or more per game and it's just a logistical nightmare that really isn't worth it to play a UAB or Tulane (just throwing names out of a hat) on a Tuesday or Wednesday. For Virginia Tech on a Thursday night (which was our opponent the 2 times we have played non-holiday weeknight games) the payoff is certainly worth the inconvenience. For someone that would excite our fan base or a big check then sure we would be more than willing to bend on that, but for the peanuts that really any non-AQ league is going to get it's not worth the issues and hardship on our fans.

(03-14-2012 03:50 PM)onlinepole Wrote:  

(03-13-2012 10:08 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-13-2012 10:02 AM)HuskieJohn Wrote:  

(03-13-2012 09:59 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-13-2012 08:35 AM)exCincy Kid Wrote:  ECU is in a tough spot...C-USA's far flung geography doesn't suit you all that well, and I don't see how the "Alliance" makes matters any better (I guess they are considering a 3 division split to help with travel, etc.) The support you have for your football program dwarfs any other program in C-USA but unless the BE comes a calling I guess I don't know where you can go. When I knock the C-USA posters for their superiority complex I am not directing that at ECU followers as you guys have a legit "beef" with how things have turned out for you so far.

To be honest there are many who talk that C-USA would be better to merge with the Sun-Belt to decrease travel, and for most it would, but for ECU that wouldn't be any real benefit. ECU would be better off if that was going to happen to try to join the MAC FB only (not that I think that would happen). ECU's closer to more of the MAC schools than the Sun-Belt schools.

Not that it will happen but Marshall and ECU joining the MAC would make the most sense overall.

In certain ways it would, but aside from many ECU fans not handling a perceived drop in conference perception well the MAC's mid week scheduling would be a big sticking point for ECU. ECU fought playing mid-week home games in C-USA, and is fighting that happening in the new merger.

Well, it's not just the non AQ's that are playing mid week. The ACC & BE play alot of Thurs & Fri games. What's not hard to take is the $6,000,000 windfall the MAC is getting from the BE for letter Temple leave early.

TO say nothing of the fact that the alliance, if it wants to realize 3 mill per school in tv money might have to play some weeknight games.

(03-14-2012 03:53 PM)onlinepole Wrote:  

(03-13-2012 11:31 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-13-2012 10:27 AM)axeme Wrote:  

(03-13-2012 10:08 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-13-2012 10:02 AM)HuskieJohn Wrote:  Not that it will happen but Marshall and ECU joining the MAC would make the most sense overall.

In certain ways it would, but aside from many ECU fans not handling a perceived drop in conference perception well the MAC's mid week scheduling would be a big sticking point for ECU. ECU fought playing mid-week home games in C-USA, and is fighting that happening in the new merger.

The ACC has mid-week games, too. There will be more and more games Mon-Fri in the future as TV demands more product to sell. They need to spread out the games, not have them all on Saturday afternoon and evening.

It's one of those things that I'm sure for the right amount of money we'd be willing to bend on, like ACC/BE money, but C-USA didn't make the money necessary to make us willing to alienate our fan base, and the MAC doesn't either. We worked with the league and were more than willing to play several on the road, but with the number you guys play I don't think we'd be able to manage to only play them on the road. That's always going to be a sticking point for ECU. I don't in any way mean for this to sound like I am insulting the MAC, just the idea of mid-week games in general outside of Thursday night.

Remember though that the only midweek games the MAC plays are in November and in Tday week some MAC programs do play Saturday although most play Friday which really isn't a bad deal.

b0ndsj0ns is one of the more reasonable CUSA posters but a lot of them really think every team plays a ton of midweek games! In reality though most schools play one or two a year.

(03-14-2012 04:28 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  b0ndsj0ns is one of the more reasonable CUSA posters but a lot of them really think every team plays a ton of midweek games! In reality though most schools play one or two a year.

Each of the past 2 years NIU has hosted 1 weeknight game. Not counting the morning after Thanksgiving as the MAC has to finish on that day until the MACC is moved back to Saturday.

The opposite side of that is Toledo hosted 4 weeknight games just last year.

(03-14-2012 04:34 PM)HuskieJohn Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 04:28 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  b0ndsj0ns is one of the more reasonable CUSA posters but a lot of them really think every team plays a ton of midweek games! In reality though most schools play one or two a year.

Each of the past 2 years NIU has hosted 1 weeknight game. Not counting the morning after Thanksgiving as the MAC has to finish on that day until the MACC is moved back to Saturday.

The opposite side of that is Toledo hosted 4 weeknight games just last year.

Yea Toledo got kind of boned but two of the four were OOC read it was their choice!

They wanted Boise on TV they had to do it on a weeknight. That had *nothing* to do with the MAC's espn contract.

(03-14-2012 04:28 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 03:53 PM)onlinepole Wrote:  

(03-13-2012 11:31 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-13-2012 10:27 AM)axeme Wrote:  

(03-13-2012 10:08 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  In certain ways it would, but aside from many ECU fans not handling a perceived drop in conference perception well the MAC's mid week scheduling would be a big sticking point for ECU. ECU fought playing mid-week home games in C-USA, and is fighting that happening in the new merger.

The ACC has mid-week games, too. There will be more and more games Mon-Fri in the future as TV demands more product to sell. They need to spread out the games, not have them all on Saturday afternoon and evening.

It's one of those things that I'm sure for the right amount of money we'd be willing to bend on, like ACC/BE money, but C-USA didn't make the money necessary to make us willing to alienate our fan base, and the MAC doesn't either. We worked with the league and were more than willing to play several on the road, but with the number you guys play I don't think we'd be able to manage to only play them on the road. That's always going to be a sticking point for ECU. I don't in any way mean for this to sound like I am insulting the MAC, just the idea of mid-week games in general outside of Thursday night.

Remember though that the only midweek games the MAC plays are in November and in Tday week some MAC programs do play Saturday although most play Friday which really isn't a bad deal.

b0ndsj0ns is one of the more reasonable CUSA posters but a lot of them really think every team plays a ton of midweek games! In reality though most schools play one or two a year.

ECU isn't against playing them completely, it's against being forced to host them. We are trying to negotiate with the merger that schools get a choice if they would like to host them or not. There are many who don't mind having them and think the exposure is worth it. The last year of our ESPN deal we had 3 straight non-Saturday games, a Tuesday game at Memphis, a Sunday night game at Tulsa, and a Thursday night game at home against VT. So we aren't unreasonable and wouldn't try to demand that we never play them, and probably would play multiple on the road if necessary to not have to host them. I would think there are enough teams in the merger that would like the exposure and would want to host them that those that really are against it wouldn't be forced to.