(03-10-2012 11:01 AM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  Sure this is a homer pick but here is why Ga Southern is the best pick if the Sun Belt is looking to bring in teams with potential to gain national attention by winning on the field:

1) Out of 250 division 1 football teams, Ga Southern is without question the number 1 program in terms of success on the field the last 25 years. Not Alabama, not Miami, not LSU or Florida or App State. 6 national championships in 8 title appearances over three different coaching regimes. Even as an FCS team, Ga Southern gave Alabama their toughest game outside of the LSU loss last year.

2) Ga Southern finally has a pro athletics President after 15 years of a UC Berkeley educated anti athletics President that let the program rot in terms of facility improvements. The new President is making major improvements including a much needed capital campaign that includes a $12 million facility at the football stadium that breaks ground this month. More improvements will follow. He is also making a push to increase the budget which will soon be at the average SB level.

3) Opening up the state of Ga to the Sun Belt. It is within the footprint and there are currently only two FBS schools and GA Tech is very limited in who they can sign due to very difficult academics. The easiest major is business. Last year UGA and Ga Tech signed 35 players from in state and 135 FBS signees had to go out of state. Ga Southern would be very good, very fast and opening GA would help other SB teams as well.

4) Enrollment will soon reach 25,000 which will be an above average size school in the SB. Also, Ga Southern would be a long term member unlikely to move to another conference which stabilizes the conference. Many other large market schools would only be looking at the SB as a short term stepping stone as it is mandatory for them to get into a BCS conference in order to gain enough interest from their fanbase in cities with tons of entertainment options. We have a solid fan base that averaged 19k attendance during the regular season last year.

Ultimately the SB will have to balance the dilema of market size vs potential to win. The answer is probably a balance of the two. Pick a large market team and a team with the greatest potential to win.

What is potential to win really and what does FCS success have to do with anything?

Troy was in DII a decade before joining.

ULM won a FCS national championship less than ten years before moving up and in nearly twenty years at the FBS level have yet to post a winning season.

Neither of FAU or FIU had even played a snap of competitive football the last time Georgia Southern won a national championship.

As I said in another thread, the 9 currently football playing schools in the conference were all in very different places twenty years ago, hell even ten years ago, and yet we've all reached approximately the same level as programs. Sure some have had a fair amount more success, but none of us are world beaters, none of us have ever been ranked and none of us are undefeated against anyone else.

Looking at the crop of Georgia Southern, Georgia State, UTSA, Texas State, App State, UNC-Charlotte etc. The same can probably be expected, we can probably expect relatively the same level of success from any one of those members within the next ten years. Which is why what they're doing now and what they've done in the past is really a non-factor.

I really dont think Georgia Southern moves up any time soon because the administration is comfortable where they are now. We have to remember why GaSouthern started football 30 years ago to begin with. The mission was to make the school more attractive to male applicants. Mission Accomplished. Now what happens if GaSouthern moves up and struggles like ULM has or like WKU did for a while? Remember, what's being sold in Statesboro is , great campus in the country, pretty little stadium, championship football. When was the last time GaSouthern lost a home game? Is GaSouthern in Statesboro still as attractive a destination for FBS recruits when you go 4-8? This is not smack, its just getting into the mindset of the administration. Stevie Wonder could tell you this generation's FBS door is closing which is why anyone who wants to go is ready to go now and voicing that they are ready. Georgia Southern has said the opposite. What's sad is that we can only blame the UGA dominated legislature and Board of Regents for the fact that the #4 recruiting ground in the United States has only 2 current FBS schools. The schools in Georgia should be growing like the Florida schools. Right now only Georgia State and Kennesaw are. The powers that be have blocked engineering and medical schools and other attractive programs from developing at regional schools so that UGA and GT stay at the top.

(03-10-2012 11:45 AM)panama Wrote:  I really dont think Georgia Southern moves up any time soon because the administration is comfortable where they are now. We have to remember why GaSouthern started football 30 years ago to begin with. The mission was to make the school more attractive to male applicants. Mission Accomplished. Now what happens if GaSouthern moves up and struggles like ULM has or like WKU did for a while? Remember, what's being sold in Statesboro is , great campus in the country, pretty little stadium, championship football. When was the last time GaSouthern lost a home game? Is GaSouthern in Statesboro still as attractive a destination for FBS recruits when you go 4-8? This is not smack, its just getting into the mindset of the administration. Stevie Wonder could tell you this generation's FBS door is closing which is why anyone who wants to go is ready to go now and voicing that they are ready. Georgia Southern has said the opposite. What's sad is that we can only blame the UGA dominated legislature and Board of Regents for the fact that the #4 recruiting ground in the United States has only 2 current FBS schools. The schools in Georgia should be growing like the Florida schools. Right now only Georgia State and Kennesaw are. The powers that be have blocked engineering and medical schools and other attractive programs from developing at regional schools so that UGA and GT stay at the top.

No doubt that GT and UGA dominate the Board of Regents, but Ga Southern did get approval to convert our Engineering Technology program to a full fledged Engineering school last year which is a big deal considering GT has had control of that for 150 years.

Our new President is pro athletics and our public stance has not formally announced intentions to move FBS, but he is not moving full steam ahead on a capital campaign to expand the stadium and make other major improvements to stay FCS. He has also agressively pursued a new arena jointly with the city/county. Our AD has maintained the FCS position, but many think his days are numbered and our President will bring in a new guy to lead the FBS move.

I doubt long term we would be a 4-8 type program with the over abundance of talent in GA and our solid winning tradition. We competed fine against most of the SunBelt teams when they were FCS. We recruit well against them now as an FCS team so that would greatly improve if we were FBS.

I must admit...I dont know anything about Southern, or Georgia State for that matter, but their fans are pesky.

(03-10-2012 06:40 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  I must admit...I dont know anything about Southern, or Georgia State for that matter, but their fans are pesky.

You don't remember the 86 FCS championship game where Tracy Ham layed it on you 48-21? :-)

(03-10-2012 11:26 AM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(03-10-2012 11:01 AM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  Sure this is a homer pick but here is why Ga Southern is the best pick if the Sun Belt is looking to bring in teams with potential to gain national attention by winning on the field:

1) Out of 250 division 1 football teams, Ga Southern is without question the number 1 program in terms of success on the field the last 25 years. Not Alabama, not Miami, not LSU or Florida or App State. 6 national championships in 8 title appearances over three different coaching regimes. Even as an FCS team, Ga Southern gave Alabama their toughest game outside of the LSU loss last year.

2) Ga Southern finally has a pro athletics President after 15 years of a UC Berkeley educated anti athletics President that let the program rot in terms of facility improvements. The new President is making major improvements including a much needed capital campaign that includes a $12 million facility at the football stadium that breaks ground this month. More improvements will follow. He is also making a push to increase the budget which will soon be at the average SB level.

3) Opening up the state of Ga to the Sun Belt. It is within the footprint and there are currently only two FBS schools and GA Tech is very limited in who they can sign due to very difficult academics. The easiest major is business. Last year UGA and Ga Tech signed 35 players from in state and 135 FBS signees had to go out of state. Ga Southern would be very good, very fast and opening GA would help other SB teams as well.

4) Enrollment will soon reach 25,000 which will be an above average size school in the SB. Also, Ga Southern would be a long term member unlikely to move to another conference which stabilizes the conference. Many other large market schools would only be looking at the SB as a short term stepping stone as it is mandatory for them to get into a BCS conference in order to gain enough interest from their fanbase in cities with tons of entertainment options. We have a solid fan base that averaged 19k attendance during the regular season last year.

Ultimately the SB will have to balance the dilema of market size vs potential to win. The answer is probably a balance of the two. Pick a large market team and a team with the greatest potential to win.

What is potential to win really and what does FCS success have to do with anything?

Troy was in DII a decade before joining.

ULM won a FCS national championship less than ten years before moving up and in nearly twenty years at the FBS level have yet to post a winning season.

Neither of FAU or FIU had even played a snap of competitive football the last time Georgia Southern won a national championship.

As I said in another thread, the 9 currently football playing schools in the conference were all in very different places twenty years ago, hell even ten years ago, and yet we've all reached approximately the same level as programs. Sure some have had a fair amount more success, but none of us are world beaters, none of us have ever been ranked and none of us are undefeated against anyone else.

Looking at the crop of Georgia Southern, Georgia State, UTSA, Texas State, App State, UNC-Charlotte etc. The same can probably be expected, we can probably expect relatively the same level of success from any one of those members within the next ten years. Which is why what they're doing now and what they've done in the past is really a non-factor.

We really don't know how well the best programs in FCS translates to FBS because the three teams that dominated FCS are still there. Ga Southern, App State and Montanna. Marshall is probably the only team where that comparison could be made. Of course they are in West Virginia where there is very little high school talent to recruit from.

ULM did win one title, but winning 3 or 6 is a bit different. All I am saying is that having a championship tradition over years does create an expectation to win within the program. It is like that at Alabama which is why they are the best program in the SEC despite GA and FLA having much more resources available to them. You can thank the Bear and the legacy he established for that. At Ga Southern we have our Bear Bryant in Erk Russell and he still casts a huge shadow over the program today very similar to the Bear. And we know that once a school has a losing legacy, it is a hell of a hole to dig out of.

I think tradition and winning does matter. Does it guarantee success from one level to the next? No, but I definitely think it helps. Troy was a successful DII program and successful in their short time in FCS and they have been the best program in the Sun Belt. Our program is definitely back with back to back final four appearances. We had a down period from 05-09 with a couple of bad coaching hires, but things are back on track.

(03-10-2012 07:10 PM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  

(03-10-2012 06:40 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  I must admit...I dont know anything about Southern, or Georgia State for that matter, but their fans are pesky.

You don't remember the 86 FCS championship game where Tracy Ham layed it on you 48-21? :-)

New rule for GSU fans . . do not dredge up painful memories for stAte fans . .

Go stAte . . Go SBC !!

(03-10-2012 08:28 PM)ManzanoWolf Wrote:  

(03-10-2012 07:10 PM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  

(03-10-2012 06:40 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  I must admit...I dont know anything about Southern, or Georgia State for that matter, but their fans are pesky.

You don't remember the 86 FCS championship game where Tracy Ham layed it on you 48-21? :-)

New rule for GSU fans . . do not dredge up painful memories for stAte fans . .

Go stAte . . Go SBC !!

You guys are turning the corner with Malzahn and co. , so I figured that shot wouldn't hurt too much.

(03-10-2012 08:28 PM)ManzanoWolf Wrote:  

(03-10-2012 07:10 PM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  

(03-10-2012 06:40 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  I must admit...I dont know anything about Southern, or Georgia State for that matter, but their fans are pesky.

You don't remember the 86 FCS championship game where Tracy Ham layed it on you 48-21? :-)

New rule for GSU fans . . do not dredge up painful memories for stAte fans . .

Go stAte . . Go SBC !!

Geez ok , I wont!

(03-10-2012 07:10 PM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  

(03-10-2012 06:40 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  I must admit...I dont know anything about Southern, or Georgia State for that matter, but their fans are pesky.

You don't remember the 86 FCS championship game where Tracy Ham layed it on you 48-21? :-)

I'll never forget that BS. stAte had such a good defense that year.

Prior to that game only 3 teams busted 20 points on us. The high being Mississippi St with 24. Gave up 10 points or less 8 times.


Not like Lacewell didn't know how to defend the option . . .

(03-10-2012 09:00 PM)WinstonTheWolf Wrote:  

(03-10-2012 07:10 PM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  

(03-10-2012 06:40 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  I must admit...I dont know anything about Southern, or Georgia State for that matter, but their fans are pesky.

You don't remember the 86 FCS championship game where Tracy Ham layed it on you 48-21? :-)

I'll never forget that BS. stAte had such a good defense that year.

Prior to that game only 3 teams busted 20 points on us. The high being Mississippi St with 24. Gave up 10 points or less 8 times.


Not like Lacewell didn't know how to defend the option . . .

They beat the heck out of us....or should I say, Tracy beat the heck out of us.
That was painful to watch. We were a really good team, and they broke us down like a shotgun.

I remember their coach (Erk?) spreading that swamp water on the field.....must have been something to that.

If you want a modern day version of that game, look at what Cam Newton did to us year before last. Ham looked very much like Newton.

Great player. Then he went to the CFL and threw for 40k yards

(03-10-2012 07:10 PM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  

(03-10-2012 06:40 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  I must admit...I dont know anything about Southern, or Georgia State for that matter, but their fans are pesky.

You don't remember the 86 FCS championship game where Tracy Ham layed it on you 48-21? :-)

Thankfully I was 1 year old at the time, so I dont remember much of anything.

But thanks for reminding all our older fans of what was a very painful game im sure.

(03-10-2012 09:10 PM)Fanof49ASU Wrote:  

(03-10-2012 09:00 PM)WinstonTheWolf Wrote:  

(03-10-2012 07:10 PM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  

(03-10-2012 06:40 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  I must admit...I dont know anything about Southern, or Georgia State for that matter, but their fans are pesky.

You don't remember the 86 FCS championship game where Tracy Ham layed it on you 48-21? :-)

I'll never forget that BS. stAte had such a good defense that year.

Prior to that game only 3 teams busted 20 points on us. The high being Mississippi St with 24. Gave up 10 points or less 8 times.


Not like Lacewell didn't know how to defend the option . . .

They beat the heck out of us....or should I say, Tracy beat the heck out of us.
That was painful to watch. We were a really good team, and they broke us down like a shotgun.

I remember their coach (Erk?) spreading that swamp water on the field.....must have been something to that.

If you want a modern day version of that game, look at what Cam Newton did to us year before last. Ham looked very much like Newton.

Ham could have been the starter at almost any school in the country. He was very special no doubt. Ole Erk used to take a jug of beautiful Eagle Creek water and spread it in the opponents endzone during big playoff or championship games. It never let him down and is one of our most cherished traditions today. We were lucky to have Erk. He was the DC at UGA for years and the most beloved coach they ever had and even more to Ga Southern. He's our Bear Bryant.

Ham was inducted into the Georgia Sports hall of fame last week. Great interview from Tracy if interested. He talks about the Ark State game at 3:23 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1Asx4Cmbzc An extra bonus is the run by Adrian Peterson at 4:50 in the national championship game.

The '86 football season was the longest season I have ever endured. I love college football but I was ready for that to be over. It is one of the main reasons I like the bowls. One game and done. For a few years there we played a lot of football games.

Ham was obviously very good, but I can't imagine that his offensive line wasn't the difference vs. stAte's defense.

Did any of those guys play in the NFL?

(03-10-2012 10:14 PM)WinstonTheWolf Wrote:  Ham was obviously very good, but I can't imagine that his offensive line wasn't the difference vs. stAte's defense.

Did any of those guys play in the NFL?

I don't think so, but they were mostly seniors that had been playing together for 4 years.

(03-10-2012 09:15 PM)panama Wrote:  Great player. Then he went to the CFL and threw for 40k yards

I love the CFL. My second favorite sport in the world, ranking behind only the American game.

(03-10-2012 10:03 PM)OsageJ Wrote:  The '86 football season was the longest season I have ever endured. I love college football but I was ready for that to be over. It is one of the main reasons I like the bowls. One game and done. For a few years there we played a lot of football games.

You're right....I remember that season went on forever. 15 games is a long time in college.

(03-10-2012 09:16 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(03-10-2012 07:10 PM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  

(03-10-2012 06:40 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  I must admit...I dont know anything about Southern, or Georgia State for that matter, but their fans are pesky.

You don't remember the 86 FCS championship game where Tracy Ham layed it on you 48-21? :-)

Thankfully I was 1 year old at the time, so I dont remember much of anything.

But thanks for reminding all our older fans of what was a very painful game im sure.

I was still in diapers myself, but I was very advanced intellectually for my age . .

Go stAte . . Go SBC !!