Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)


Poll: Who Do You PREFER As The First New Member ?
Georgia State
Louisiana Tech
Appy State
Texas State
UTSA
Georgia Southern
[Show Results]
 
Post Reply 
Who Do You PREFER As The First New Member ?
Author Message
Bookmark and Share
Sultan of Euphonistan Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,999
Joined: Sep 2010
Reputation: 80
I Root For: Baritones
Location: The Euphonistan Tree
Post: #61
RE: Who Do You PREFER As The First New Member ?
(03-10-2012 11:26 AM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(03-10-2012 11:01 AM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  Sure this is a homer pick but here is why Ga Southern is the best pick if the Sun Belt is looking to bring in teams with potential to gain national attention by winning on the field:

1) Out of 250 division 1 football teams, Ga Southern is without question the number 1 program in terms of success on the field the last 25 years. Not Alabama, not Miami, not LSU or Florida or App State. 6 national championships in 8 title appearances over three different coaching regimes. Even as an FCS team, Ga Southern gave Alabama their toughest game outside of the LSU loss last year.

2) Ga Southern finally has a pro athletics President after 15 years of a UC Berkeley educated anti athletics President that let the program rot in terms of facility improvements. The new President is making major improvements including a much needed capital campaign that includes a $12 million facility at the football stadium that breaks ground this month. More improvements will follow. He is also making a push to increase the budget which will soon be at the average SB level.

3) Opening up the state of Ga to the Sun Belt. It is within the footprint and there are currently only two FBS schools and GA Tech is very limited in who they can sign due to very difficult academics. The easiest major is business. Last year UGA and Ga Tech signed 35 players from in state and 135 FBS signees had to go out of state. Ga Southern would be very good, very fast and opening GA would help other SB teams as well.

4) Enrollment will soon reach 25,000 which will be an above average size school in the SB. Also, Ga Southern would be a long term member unlikely to move to another conference which stabilizes the conference. Many other large market schools would only be looking at the SB as a short term stepping stone as it is mandatory for them to get into a BCS conference in order to gain enough interest from their fanbase in cities with tons of entertainment options. We have a solid fan base that averaged 19k attendance during the regular season last year.

Ultimately the SB will have to balance the dilema of market size vs potential to win. The answer is probably a balance of the two. Pick a large market team and a team with the greatest potential to win.

What is potential to win really and what does FCS success have to do with anything?

Troy was in DII a decade before joining.

ULM won a FCS national championship less than ten years before moving up and in nearly twenty years at the FBS level have yet to post a winning season.

Neither of FAU or FIU had even played a snap of competitive football the last time Georgia Southern won a national championship.

As I said in another thread, the 9 currently football playing schools in the conference were all in very different places twenty years ago, hell even ten years ago, and yet we've all reached approximately the same level as programs. Sure some have had a fair amount more success, but none of us are world beaters, none of us have ever been ranked and none of us are undefeated against anyone else.

Looking at the crop of Georgia Southern, Georgia State, UTSA, Texas State, App State, UNC-Charlotte etc. The same can probably be expected, we can probably expect relatively the same level of success from any one of those members within the next ten years. Which is why what they're doing now and what they've done in the past is really a non-factor.

This is similar to a point I make often on the realignment board. Fans here like to say stuff like "once we are in the higher conference (often in reference to the BE) we will dominate because we are good now and with the better recruits we will be even better". The truth is that those teams when brought up get recruits relatively equal to what the level of the conference is. This is why certain teams from every conference can still be bad in conference. Louisville was much better in CUSA but when they got to the BE they lost their coach and despite getting "better recruits" they have dropped to being a run of the mill team not bad but not dominating. Rarely does the new talent allow you to dominate your new conference.

There are exceptions like Cincinnati but even that has caveats in that it took them stealing a MAC coach that was dominating at the time (when CMU was really good) and when they got moved up they moved significantly up the pecking order (Ohio State, Miami, Toledo, and Bowling Green State University were all ahead of Cincy in the football pecking order that is right they were behind 3 MAC teams). Moving up to a clear number 2 in Ohio really helps as it keeps them ahead of the MAC which traditionally had the secondary football power in the state. The MAC Ohio schools are only just now recovering and the balance in football may be shifting as Ohio is now the stronger program (which it NEVER was before) and schools like Kent are getting more talent. Toledo of course is back to form but Bowling Green and especially Miami are looking down overall (last year for Miami was a real surprise).
03-11-2012 10:04 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
asuwon Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 959
Joined: May 2002
Reputation: 66
I Root For: Arkansas State
Location:
Post: #62
RE: Who Do You PREFER As The First New Member ?
(03-10-2012 07:10 PM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  You don't remember the 86 FCS championship game where Tracy Ham layed it on you 48-21? :-)

I remember, and it sucked.

Despite the loss in the championship game, it was a treat to see Tracy Ham play.
03-11-2012 10:11 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
GSU Eagles Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,010
Joined: Aug 2009
Reputation: 76
I Root For: GeorgiaSouthern
Location:
Post: #63
RE: Who Do You PREFER As The First New Member ?
(03-11-2012 10:04 AM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  
(03-10-2012 11:26 AM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(03-10-2012 11:01 AM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  Sure this is a homer pick but here is why Ga Southern is the best pick if the Sun Belt is looking to bring in teams with potential to gain national attention by winning on the field:

1) Out of 250 division 1 football teams, Ga Southern is without question the number 1 program in terms of success on the field the last 25 years. Not Alabama, not Miami, not LSU or Florida or App State. 6 national championships in 8 title appearances over three different coaching regimes. Even as an FCS team, Ga Southern gave Alabama their toughest game outside of the LSU loss last year.

2) Ga Southern finally has a pro athletics President after 15 years of a UC Berkeley educated anti athletics President that let the program rot in terms of facility improvements. The new President is making major improvements including a much needed capital campaign that includes a $12 million facility at the football stadium that breaks ground this month. More improvements will follow. He is also making a push to increase the budget which will soon be at the average SB level.

3) Opening up the state of Ga to the Sun Belt. It is within the footprint and there are currently only two FBS schools and GA Tech is very limited in who they can sign due to very difficult academics. The easiest major is business. Last year UGA and Ga Tech signed 35 players from in state and 135 FBS signees had to go out of state. Ga Southern would be very good, very fast and opening GA would help other SB teams as well.

4) Enrollment will soon reach 25,000 which will be an above average size school in the SB. Also, Ga Southern would be a long term member unlikely to move to another conference which stabilizes the conference. Many other large market schools would only be looking at the SB as a short term stepping stone as it is mandatory for them to get into a BCS conference in order to gain enough interest from their fanbase in cities with tons of entertainment options. We have a solid fan base that averaged 19k attendance during the regular season last year.

Ultimately the SB will have to balance the dilema of market size vs potential to win. The answer is probably a balance of the two. Pick a large market team and a team with the greatest potential to win.

What is potential to win really and what does FCS success have to do with anything?

Troy was in DII a decade before joining.

ULM won a FCS national championship less than ten years before moving up and in nearly twenty years at the FBS level have yet to post a winning season.

Neither of FAU or FIU had even played a snap of competitive football the last time Georgia Southern won a national championship.

As I said in another thread, the 9 currently football playing schools in the conference were all in very different places twenty years ago, hell even ten years ago, and yet we've all reached approximately the same level as programs. Sure some have had a fair amount more success, but none of us are world beaters, none of us have ever been ranked and none of us are undefeated against anyone else.

Looking at the crop of Georgia Southern, Georgia State, UTSA, Texas State, App State, UNC-Charlotte etc. The same can probably be expected, we can probably expect relatively the same level of success from any one of those members within the next ten years. Which is why what they're doing now and what they've done in the past is really a non-factor.

This is similar to a point I make often on the realignment board. Fans here like to say stuff like "once we are in the higher conference (often in reference to the BE) we will dominate because we are good now and with the better recruits we will be even better". The truth is that those teams when brought up get recruits relatively equal to what the level of the conference is. This is why certain teams from every conference can still be bad in conference. Louisville was much better in CUSA but when they got to the BE they lost their coach and despite getting "better recruits" they have dropped to being a run of the mill team not bad but not dominating. Rarely does the new talent allow you to dominate your new conference.

There are exceptions like Cincinnati but even that has caveats in that it took them stealing a MAC coach that was dominating at the time (when CMU was really good) and when they got moved up they moved significantly up the pecking order (Ohio State, Miami, Toledo, and Bowling Green State University were all ahead of Cincy in the football pecking order that is right they were behind 3 MAC teams). Moving up to a clear number 2 in Ohio really helps as it keeps them ahead of the MAC which traditionally had the secondary football power in the state. The MAC Ohio schools are only just now recovering and the balance in football may be shifting as Ohio is now the stronger program (which it NEVER was before) and schools like Kent are getting more talent. Toledo of course is back to form but Bowling Green and especially Miami are looking down overall (last year for Miami was a real surprise).

I would argue that the state of GA is very unique because there are currently only two FBS schools in a state of over 10 million people. The state has 170 high school seniors that sign FBS scholarships and UGA and GA Tech only sign about 35 a year. Players are more likely to sign with the home state school so if Ga Southern or Ga State or both move up, they will be able to rake in the talent at the FBS level. The example you gave used the state of Ohio. Ohio has fewer FBS signees than Georgia yet there are 8 FBS schools. Huge difference.
(This post was last modified: 03-11-2012 11:43 AM by GSU Eagles.)
03-11-2012 11:43 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
GoBigRed26 Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 2,052
Joined: Oct 2011
Reputation: 119
I Root For: stAte
Location: Little Rock, AR
Post: #64
RE: Who Do You PREFER As The First New Member ?
(03-11-2012 10:04 AM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  This is similar to a point I make often on the realignment board. Fans here like to say stuff like "once we are in the higher conference (often in reference to the BE) we will dominate because we are good now and with the better recruits we will be even better". The truth is that those teams when brought up get recruits relatively equal to what the level of the conference is. This is why certain teams from every conference can still be bad in conference. Louisville was much better in CUSA but when they got to the BE they lost their coach and despite getting "better recruits" they have dropped to being a run of the mill team not bad but not dominating. Rarely does the new talent allow you to dominate your new conference.

I think it's funny people fail to realize this. Like when Memphis got the invite to the Big East. They think they will automatically be a better football team, but if you have been the worst team in CUSA the past two years, why on earth do you think that would change. Yes you might get some better recruits than previously, but not enough to put you on the same level as Cincy and others. Recruits don't want to play for a losing team.
03-11-2012 02:50 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
GoApps70 Offline
Moderator
*

Posts: 20,650
Joined: Jun 2009
Reputation: 290
I Root For: Appalachian St.
Location: Charlotte, N. C.
Post: #65
RE: Who Do You PREFER As The First New Member ?
(03-11-2012 02:50 PM)GoBigRed26 Wrote:  
(03-11-2012 10:04 AM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  This is similar to a point I make often on the realignment board. Fans here like to say stuff like "once we are in the higher conference (often in reference to the BE) we will dominate because we are good now and with the better recruits we will be even better". The truth is that those teams when brought up get recruits relatively equal to what the level of the conference is. This is why certain teams from every conference can still be bad in conference. Louisville was much better in CUSA but when they got to the BE they lost their coach and despite getting "better recruits" they have dropped to being a run of the mill team not bad but not dominating. Rarely does the new talent allow you to dominate your new conference.

I think it's funny people fail to realize this. Like when Memphis got the invite to the Big East. They think they will automatically be a better football team, but if you have been the worst team in CUSA the past two years, why on earth do you think that would change. Yes you might get some better recruits than previously, but not enough to put you on the same level as Cincy and others. Recruits don't want to play for a losing team.

Agree.
03-11-2012 06:14 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2024 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2024 MyBB Group.