(03-04-2012 06:24 PM)Bearcat04 Wrote:  Iona's coach, Tim Cluess, took out the frustration of losing today on the Big East:

“If you’re going to pick eight or nine teams out of the Big East, that’s nonsense,” Cluess said, sounding defiant. “Those teams aren’t as good as we are.”

He added: “Maybe this an argument for expanding the tournament.”

http://www.zagsblog.com/2012/03/04/fairf...more-68844

Dude, you just lost by double digits to FAIRFIELD!

so, you lose to Fairfield by double digits, $hit on the Big East in your presser and claim all this is reason for tourney expansion???

LOL....wow

It would be frustrating to be from a one bid conference, have a good regular season, and lose the the bid in the conference tourney. For those conferences the NCAA tournament pretty much starts when their conference tourney starts.

That said, does anyone seriously think WVU couldn't have replicated Iona's results with their schedule?

(03-04-2012 07:39 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  they are a good team...they would not go 15-3 in the BE

I don't think they would either.
That said, if they don't get in, RPI is meaningless. In which case, the talking heads need to stoping fkn telling me about it. Either count it or don't, **** or get off the pot.

(03-04-2012 07:51 PM)WarningSigns Wrote:  It would be frustrating to be from a one bid conference, have a good regular season, and lose the the bid in the conference tourney. For those conferences the NCAA tournament pretty much starts when their conference tourney starts.

That said, does anyone seriously think WVU couldn't have replicated Iona's results with their schedule?

Maybe those one bid conferences shouldn't decide their championship in a tournament.

(03-04-2012 08:18 PM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  

(03-04-2012 07:51 PM)WarningSigns Wrote:  It would be frustrating to be from a one bid conference, have a good regular season, and lose the the bid in the conference tourney. For those conferences the NCAA tournament pretty much starts when their conference tourney starts.

That said, does anyone seriously think WVU couldn't have replicated Iona's results with their schedule?

Maybe those one bid conferences shouldn't decide their championship in a tournament.

If they are really interested in getting their best team in, yeah.

I don't personally have a problem with the conference tourneys. Its part of the reason I love college basketball--you can earn it on the court, no matter who you are. If losing to Fairfield is Iona's version of "do-or-die" then they weren't gonna do much in the NCAAs anyway.

I think they could actually get in, kind of like how UAB and VCU got in last year. They might have one of the best non Big 6 back courts in the nation with Machado and Momo Jones.

(03-04-2012 07:53 PM)Butterfly Wrote:  

(03-04-2012 07:39 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  they are a good team...they would not go 15-3 in the BE

I don't think they would either.
That said, if they don't get in, RPI is meaningless. In which case, the talking heads need to stoping fkn telling me about it. Either count it or don't, **** or get off the pot.

RPI isn't meaningless; it's not always particularly useful, but it's also not the selection committee's only tool. If it were, you wouldn't need a committee.

(03-04-2012 10:04 PM)franzeal Wrote:  

(03-04-2012 07:53 PM)Butterfly Wrote:  

(03-04-2012 07:39 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  they are a good team...they would not go 15-3 in the BE

I don't think they would either.
That said, if they don't get in, RPI is meaningless. In which case, the talking heads need to stoping fkn telling me about it. Either count it or don't, **** or get off the pot.

RPI isn't meaningless; it's not always particularly useful, but it's also not the selection committee's only tool. If it were, you wouldn't need a committee.

If it could potentially keep someone out, it ought to be able to keep someone in.
I've heard that it and SOS are just tools and ways to settle arguments, if that's the case, then stop reporting it to be more significant than it is. See CBSSports' bracketology.
It's annoying.

Joe Lunardi says "no Iona". Who knows what the committee says.

(03-04-2012 07:44 PM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  

(03-04-2012 06:24 PM)Bearcat04 Wrote:  Iona's coach, Tim Cluess, took out the frustration of losing today on the Big East:

“If you’re going to pick eight or nine teams out of the Big East, that’s nonsense,” Cluess said, sounding defiant. “Those teams aren’t as good as we are.”

He added: “Maybe this an argument for expanding the tournament.”

http://www.zagsblog.com/2012/03/04/fairf...more-68844

Dude, you just lost by double digits to FAIRFIELD!

It would be absolutely GREAT if they got in and were pitted against some BE team like Marquette in the first round.

Can't prep for them with Fairfield pal --

(03-04-2012 08:55 PM)WarningSigns Wrote:  

(03-04-2012 08:18 PM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  

(03-04-2012 07:51 PM)WarningSigns Wrote:  It would be frustrating to be from a one bid conference, have a good regular season, and lose the the bid in the conference tourney. For those conferences the NCAA tournament pretty much starts when their conference tourney starts.

That said, does anyone seriously think WVU couldn't have replicated Iona's results with their schedule?

Maybe those one bid conferences shouldn't decide their championship in a tournament.

If they are really interested in getting their best team in, yeah.

I don't personally have a problem with the conference tourneys. Its part of the reason I love college basketball--you can earn it on the court, no matter who you are. If losing to Fairfield is Iona's version of "do-or-die" then they weren't gonna do much in the NCAAs anyway.

This is the part I don't understand. The only league that really makes you "earn it on the court" is the Ivy. The rest of the one bid leagues say, we don't care what you did all season, home or away, in conference or out. All that matters are the next three games on some neutral site. To me it is just unfair. The crappy teams that end up in march madness DO NOT belong to be there. These teams play 30+ games and literally all that matters are the final couple of them. I don't mind a conference tournament to wrap things up and a chance to play yourself in or off the bubble as a result to cap off everyones season. But, the guaranteed bid is a dumb idea in my mind. I would be more into the conference tournaments for the smaller schools if they rigged it for the one seed (say, home court all the way through) or only took the top 4 teams from the conference and let them play it out for a bid. However, I have a real problem with essentially telling these teams that their entire seasons are meaningless as the format currently stands.

(03-05-2012 08:41 AM)bearcatalyst Wrote:  This is the part I don't understand. The only league that really makes you "earn it on the court" is the Ivy. The rest of the one bid leagues say, we don't care what you did all season, home or away, in conference or out. All that matters are the next three games on some neutral site. To me it is just unfair. The crappy teams that end up in march madness DO NOT belong to be there. These teams play 30+ games and literally all that matters are the final couple of them. I don't mind a conference tournament to wrap things up and a chance to play yourself in or off the bubble as a result to cap off everyones season. But, the guaranteed bid is a dumb idea in my mind. I would be more into the conference tournaments for the smaller schools if they rigged it for the one seed (say, home court all the way through) or only took the top 4 teams from the conference and let them play it out for a bid. However, I have a real problem with essentially telling these teams that their entire seasons are meaningless as the format currently stands.

I could not disagree more. If the Ivy does not want to have a conference tournament that is their choice and good for them. i have no problem with the league champion being the regular season champion. However, conference tournaments are awesome and I like how once conference tournaments start every team that plays in one gets to play until they lose. Do or die basketball is a completely different animal. To me conference tournaments for most leagues and most teams are simply an extension of the NCAA tournament. Everyone has a chance.

In those smaller conferences I am sure regular season titles are still a huge accomplishment and something the school celebrates ( i know I celebrate every one of UC's Conference USA titles), but the Conference tournaments are beginning of do-or-die basketball. You get to play until you lose. Winning your regular season title always gives you an advantage in that you have the most desirable match-ups and in most smaller conferences winning your regular season title gives you other advantages as well: such as home court, first round bye, second round bye, etc. So yea they are not given the automatic bid because of the regular season, but the chance is there to earn the bid and they have advantages built into the tournament.

I like seeing everyone have to earn it with do or die basketball. Some of those teams that inevitably don't win their conference tournament after the regular season title will have done enough to earn an automatic bid, the others get to go to the NIT. All in all I think that is a fair tradeoff.

Anyways I love Championship week. Yesterday through the end of the first round of the NCAA tournament are my two favorite weeks of the sports year. That would not be the case were automatic bids not in play. Do or die basketball is just incredibly entertaining.

(03-05-2012 09:00 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(03-05-2012 08:41 AM)bearcatalyst Wrote:  This is the part I don't understand. The only league that really makes you "earn it on the court" is the Ivy. The rest of the one bid leagues say, we don't care what you did all season, home or away, in conference or out. All that matters are the next three games on some neutral site. To me it is just unfair. The crappy teams that end up in march madness DO NOT belong to be there. These teams play 30+ games and literally all that matters are the final couple of them. I don't mind a conference tournament to wrap things up and a chance to play yourself in or off the bubble as a result to cap off everyones season. But, the guaranteed bid is a dumb idea in my mind. I would be more into the conference tournaments for the smaller schools if they rigged it for the one seed (say, home court all the way through) or only took the top 4 teams from the conference and let them play it out for a bid. However, I have a real problem with essentially telling these teams that their entire seasons are meaningless as the format currently stands.

I could not disagree more. If the Ivy does not want to have a conference tournament that is their choice and good for them. i have no problem with the league champion being the regular season champion. However, conference tournaments are awesome and I like how once conference tournaments start every team that plays in one gets to play until they lose. Do or die basketball is a completely different animal. To me conference tournaments for most leagues and most teams are simply an extension of the NCAA tournament. Everyone has a chance.

In those smaller conferences I am sure regular season titles are still a huge accomplishment and something the school celebrates ( i know I celebrate every one of UC's Conference USA titles), but the Conference tournaments are beginning of do-or-die basketball. You get to play until you lose. Winning your regular season title always gives you an advantage in that you have the most desirable match-ups and in most smaller conferences winning your regular season title gives you other advantages as well: such as home court, first round bye, second round bye, etc. So yea they are not given the automatic bid because of the regular season, but the chance is there to earn the bid and they have advantages built into the tournament.

I like seeing everyone have to earn it with do or die basketball. Some of those teams that inevitably don't win their conference tournament after the regular season title will have done enough to earn an automatic bid, the others get to go to the NIT. All in all I think that is a fair tradeoff.

Anyways I love Championship week. Yesterday through the end of the first round of the NCAA tournament are my two favorite weeks of the sports year. That would not be the case were automatic bids not in play. Do or die basketball is just incredibly entertaining.

Right, I am sure you would look upon all of the CUSA championship banners with pride if all we had to show for them were a number of NIT appearances.

Are conference tournaments exciting? Hell yes. Much more exciting than my proposition. However, the notion that NCAAB is pure and that the BCS is not because you get to decide it on the court just isn't true. The best teams don't go to the NCAA tournament to play for the title and a lot of that is due to these conference tournaments.

Championship week is a boatload of fun to watch. You know what else is? Watching every game your team plays in conference as do or die for 14-18 games rather than not giving a damn at all because if you go unbeaten in the MAAC and lose in round one, you go to the NIT.

Conference tournaments ARE NOT do or die basketball for everyone. 10 Big East teams will probably get in. So 9 can die without consequence. The BE is obviously a much, much, much better league than these one bid leagues. But don't act like everyone is playing with the same amount of pressure. There is not an iota of pressure on Syracuse. However, some 27 win team that smoked their conference will fall and be left out for a team that has played all year like they don't belong in the NCAA tournament. And they don't belong to play for it. At all.

(03-05-2012 09:05 AM)bearcatalyst Wrote:  Right, I am sure you would look upon all of the CUSA championship banners with pride if all we had to show for them were a number of NIT appearances.

Are conference tournaments exciting? Hell yes. Much more exciting than my proposition. However, the notion that NCAAB is pure and that the BCS is not because you get to decide it on the court just isn't true. The best teams don't go to the NCAA tournament to play for the title and a lot of that is due to these conference tournaments.

Championship week is a boatload of fun to watch. You know what else is? Watching every game your team plays in conference as do or die for 14-18 games rather than not giving a damn at all because if you go unbeaten in the MAAC and lose in round one, you go to the NIT.

Conference tournaments ARE NOT do or die basketball for everyone. 10 Big East teams will probably get in. So 9 can die without consequence. The BE is obviously a much, much, much better league than these one bid leagues. But don't act like everyone is playing with the same amount of pressure. There is not an iota of pressure on Syracuse. However, some 27 win team that smoked their conference will fall and be left out for a team that has play all year like they don't belong in the NCAA tournament. And the don't belong to play for it. At all.

The NCAA tournament wouldn't have the "best" teams going to the tournament to play for the title unless you went with the Jay Bilas approach and got rid of automatic bids. Many of the conference champions (tournament or regular season) from smaller conferences are inevitably not going to be among the best 68 teams. The NCAA tournament does not pretend to have the 68 best teams, so I am not sure where your "lack of purity" argument comes from.

The NCAA tournament claims to have the best 37 at large bids and then the conference champions (as defined by the conferences). I think that is incredibly pure. You get the entire regular season to be one of the best 37 at large bids, and if you do not earn that you get seeded in your conference tournament based on your conference performance. The top team often gets home court advantage, byes to the 2nd or 3rd round and gets the most favorable draw. Then you get to play do or die basketball to earn your automatic bid. Seems very pure to me. It is survive an advance. That is the essence of the NCAA tournament and I love how the conference tournaments are just an extension of that.

(03-05-2012 09:14 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(03-05-2012 09:05 AM)bearcatalyst Wrote:  Right, I am sure you would look upon all of the CUSA championship banners with pride if all we had to show for them were a number of NIT appearances.

Are conference tournaments exciting? Hell yes. Much more exciting than my proposition. However, the notion that NCAAB is pure and that the BCS is not because you get to decide it on the court just isn't true. The best teams don't go to the NCAA tournament to play for the title and a lot of that is due to these conference tournaments.

Championship week is a boatload of fun to watch. You know what else is? Watching every game your team plays in conference as do or die for 14-18 games rather than not giving a damn at all because if you go unbeaten in the MAAC and lose in round one, you go to the NIT.

Conference tournaments ARE NOT do or die basketball for everyone. 10 Big East teams will probably get in. So 9 can die without consequence. The BE is obviously a much, much, much better league than these one bid leagues. But don't act like everyone is playing with the same amount of pressure. There is not an iota of pressure on Syracuse. However, some 27 win team that smoked their conference will fall and be left out for a team that has play all year like they don't belong in the NCAA tournament. And the don't belong to play for it. At all.

The NCAA tournament wouldn't have the "best" teams going to the tournament to play for the title unless you went with the Jay Bilas approach and got rid of automatic bids. Many of the conference champions (tournament or regular season) from smaller conferences are inevitably not going to be among the best 68 teams. The NCAA tournament does not pretend to have the 68 best teams, so I am not sure where your "lack of purity" argument comes from.

The NCAA tournament claims to have the best 37 at large bids and then the conference champions (as defined by the conferences). I think that is incredibly pure. You get the entire regular season to be one of the best 37 at large bids, and if you do not earn that you get seeded in your conference tournament based on your conference performance. The top team often gets home court advantage, byes to the 2nd or 3rd round and gets the most favorable draw. Then you get to play do or die basketball to earn your automatic bid. Seems very pure to me. It is survive an advance. That is the essence of the NCAA tournament and I love how the conference tournaments are just an extension of that.

Jay Bilas also has that right. I don't understand why we give the smaller conferences a bid for a team undeserving of a 23rd seed a bid at all. But as long as these rules are around, you might as well take the most deserving teams. You think it is pure to say 30 games don't matter but their final 3 do? Ok, and that is fine. I just don't buy it.

The conference tournaments for the low majors are incredibly fun for fans. Just not for fans of the teams that are actually in them. It's a joke that teams that dominate their leagues don't get into the tournament because they slip up in one game.

In a vacuum, I find them extremely entertaining. However, after the first month of the regular season, all mid majors know if they have a chance at an at large bid. The rest of their season becomes about winning out and maybe getting on the bubble with 28 wins. And every other team from a mid or low major level conference is going through the motions. The regular season is a total waste of time to watch essentially outside of your own team because you love them. Especially from a low level conference. Duke playing Carolina as #1 vs #2 every year? Who cares. They are both in the tournament. Michigan State against OSU? Doesn't matter. Both will be highly seeded. Why watch? NCAAB is borderline unwatchable once you realize that all that is going to matter is tournament week.

If you're a basketball junkie, you will enjoy watching the matchups I described above. And I am. (and do)

But if you are a lower level team the games you play are meaningless except for the last week of the year. That isn't pure in any sense. If, however, every game they played from January to March actually mattered to their NCAA hopes, they would play with that same fire you see this week all year long. It means more meaningful and better played basketball. And you could televise the late season matchups that become the championship games (in the regular season) and play them up on TV even more than they do now. Hell, you could have essentially 3 weeks of HUGE games from ALL of these conferences once the better and NCAA deserving teams have separated themselves from their conference foes.

Speaking of dominant teams losing early, Middle Tennessee State was upset in the Sun Belt tournament by Arkansas State. They still have a chance for an at large.

(03-05-2012 09:55 AM)Bearcat_Bounce Wrote:  Speaking of dominant teams losing early, Middle Tennessee State was upset in the Sun Belt tournament by Arkansas State. They still have a chance for an at large.

Their problem is their conference is full of 200+ RPI teams and they don't really have a signature win in the non-conference. They really could have used a Vanderbilt win a few weeks ago.

Middle Tennessee State has 3 top 100 wins and none in the top 50. Plus, as Coop said, they have some bad losses. Their season came down to a few games. Shame.

I can argue either way here, but the conference tournaments would not be the same without an automatic bid. When teams realize they can get a trip to the big dance, everyone leaves it all on the floor. If they were not playing for this, you may see some of the teams that already believe to have their ticket punched take it a little easier and those that are only playing for pride to not keep picking themselves up and fighting.

It is a great week and I'm sure teams from the lesser conferences celebrate and would probably rather win a regular season title than a conference championship, even if it meant NIT instead of NCAA. Those teams all realize they really have no chance to win the NCAA, though maybe they have a little shot at an NIT run. Plus winning a conference regular season title indicates a great season, not just a hot week.

If it was made that the regular season and conference tourney winners made it, I would not be surprised to see a ton of upsets to allow many leagues to get 2 teams in, which would really dilute the NCAA tourney. I like the setup and it should be up to each league to decide how they give out their one, and only one, automatic bid.