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(02-26-2012 03:07 PM)rebounder2u Wrote:  Cam's blocks and rebounding are defensive stats, even if you have offensive rebounds, the stat is still a defensive stat.

Bartons stats are some what similar to Cams in that his stats are offensive, scoring and assists, where Cams are defensive, rebounding and blocks. They both score, they both rebounds, one blocks shots the other hands out assists.

I believe the POY is a MVP award based on which player impacts the play of his team and the league. Which player the team could not afford to lose.

Memphis could survive losing Barton just like they are doing now with out the injured 5 star player, who name I can't recall now.

So what is the difference between the two players I believe it depends on whether you like offensive or defensive basketball, but also what is the ratio difference between Cams assist stats and Bartons blocks stats.

I would vote for Cam, he scores, rebounds, blocks shots, assist, screens, and demand a double team in most games.

Do he make his team and the league better, I believe so. could the team afford to lose his play and still be successful ( even at 13-14 ) NO!

As the PPOY has Cam lived up to the preseason opinions of the 12 Coaches in CUSA, and here is the big one, with Memphis, UCF, SMU and Houston headed to the Little east, are there 8 coaches in CUSA, who will vote for Barton.

Cam CUSA POY he makes his team better.

What would Rice be without this guy?
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketba...lan-kazemi

I think most teams could make an argument that they'd be significantly worse without their best player.

This is not an MVP award. It's a player of the year. It doesn't matter how good Cam makes his team or how valuable he is to his team. It's the best player in the conference.

The best player in the conference may be a freshmen right now, what do you think the POY award is if not an MVP. Based on what you said, AJ wasn't the players of the year, he wasn't the best player in the league, but he was the best player at his position in the league, he wasn't a scorer, rebounder, or shot blocker, he was an assist machine and could take a game over by sheer will.
So yes in college POY is the same as MVP and No not all teams can survive losing a 15 point a game scorer, but also see Memphis for a team that was able to survive.

I think it depends on how you define best player. You could have made an argument that AJ was the best player in the conference last year. You could make that argument for a lot of guys, and since it is a subjective subject, you aren't necessarily wrong. I think more along the lines of MB when it comes to this award.

(02-26-2012 12:09 AM)WesternBlazer Wrote:  

(02-26-2012 12:07 AM)Memphis Blazer Wrote:  Cam's been putting up amazing numbers but I think UAB's record is going to hurt him. Barton is the best player on the best team and will win POY hands down I believe.

Yep!

+1...But have there ever been co-POY's in the Conference? Could be a great time to do this since Conference USA as we know it, is going away. Maybe a strong showing in the Conference tournament (like winning it) will steer the majority vote in Cam's direction. Both are deserving, that's for certain.

winner is announced before the tournament starts.

I'm really big on Cameron Moore, and I've said several times I wish he was a Tiger. That said, Barton has been extremely consistent this year, and Moore has disappeared in several games. Barton probably has it locked up.

Please define several games. I posted some of Barton's poorer performances earlier in this thread. I don't think Cam has disappeared much this year, and one of those games was when MD decided Cam was going to lead of back from the bench.

(02-29-2012 12:59 PM)blazers9911 Wrote:  Please define several games. I posted some of Barton's poorer performances earlier in this thread. I don't think Cam has disappeared much this year, and one of those games was when MD decided Cam was going to lead of back from the bench.

Michigan and Tennessee are both quality teams and much tougher than anyone UAB has played out of conference with the possible exception of Murray State, who Memphis also played. Barton has put up good numbers on better opponents consistently. Moore is a good player, but Barton will win the award going away. I honestly believe the only reason Moore was selected Preseason POY was because Tarik and Barton split the vote.

You're right, Florida is not good. Wichita State and Creighton also suck. And Georgetown may have been the best team Memphis played. What was I thinking pointing out Barton struggled against 2 teams? Also, he still had those games against mediocre C-USA opponents.

Don't forget that we also played Creighton (RPI: 24) and Wichita State (RPI:11) early in the season, in addition to MTSU, VCU, and Florida. Our strength of schedule actually derailed us having a decent rebuilding year in my opinion...but suddenly there's some hope of salvaging a good ending.

(02-29-2012 02:41 PM)Tampa Bay Tiger Wrote:  

(02-29-2012 12:59 PM)blazers9911 Wrote:  Please define several games. I posted some of Barton's poorer performances earlier in this thread. I don't think Cam has disappeared much this year, and one of those games was when MD decided Cam was going to lead of back from the bench.

Michigan and Tennessee are both quality teams and much tougher than anyone UAB has played out of conference with the possible exception of Murray State, who Memphis also played. Barton has put up good numbers on better opponents consistently. Moore is a good player, but Barton will win the award going away. I honestly believe the only reason Moore was selected Preseason POY was because Tarik and Barton split the vote.

Tennessee is 15-13 with a 93 RPI. Are you sure you want to compare them to UAB's non-conference slate?

Memphis' RPI average of the non-conference opponents is 99 in 14 games. UAB's non-conference opponents RPI average is 141 in 13 games. Memphis basically played 2 less patsies than UAB did. Of course our guys managed to lose to one of these patsies

(02-29-2012 02:47 PM)blazers9911 Wrote:  You're right, Florida is not good. Wichita State and Creighton also suck. And Georgetown may have been the best team Memphis played. What was I thinking pointing out Barton struggled against 2 teams? Also, he still had those games against mediocre C-USA opponents.

Forida isn't good. Tennessee beat them twice.
Barton's better games:
Belmont: 23 and 5
Tennessee: 25 and 11
Georgetown: 22 and 4
Murray State: 27 and 5
@Miami: 27 and 14
@Louisville: 28 and 16
@Georgetown: 12 and 11
Marshall: 29 and 8
@Marshall: 24 and 6

Overall, he's averaging a little over 18 and 8 for the season as a guard. He'll win this award by a mile.

Memphis has the 17th strongest schedule in the country according to Warran Nolan. The RPI doesn't determine how good a team is either. USM is nowhere near a top 15 team and never has been.

They are close wrt statistics. Both are in the top 15 of most CUSA categories.


SCORING Cl GP FG 3FG FT Points Avg/G
1. BARTON, Will-MEM SO 30 201 30 118 550 18.3
3. MOORE, Cameron-UAB SR 27 176 5 82 439 16.3

REBOUNDING Cl GP Off Def Total Avg/G
1. MOORE, Cameron-UAB SR 27 74 211 285 10.6
7. BARTON, Will-MEM SO 30 63 180 243 8.1

FIELD GOAL PCT Cl GP FG FGA Pct
9. BARTON, Will-MEM SO 30 201 389 .517
11. MOORE, Cameron-UAB SR 27 176 353 .499

ASSISTS Cl GP No. Avg/G
13. BARTON, Will-MEM SO 30 87 2.9
MOORE, not listed

FREE THROW PCT Cl GP FT FTA Pct
14. BARTON, Will-MEM SO 30 118 161 .733
MOORE, not listed

STEALS Cl GP No. Avg/G
4. BARTON, Will-MEM SO 30 45 1.5
MOORE, not listed

3-POINT FG PCT Cl GP 3FG 3FGA Pct
3-POINT FG MADE Cl GP 3FG Avg/G
Neither player listed

BLOCKED SHOTS Cl GP No. Avg/G
1. MOORE, Cameron-UAB SR 27 69 2.6
BARTON, not listed

OFFENSIVE REBOUNDS Cl GP No. Avg/G
9. MOORE, Cameron-UAB SR 27 74 2.7
13. BARTON, Will-MEM SO 30 63 2.1

DEFENSIVE REBOUNDS Cl GP No. Avg/G
1. MOORE, Cameron-UAB SR 27 211 7.8
4. BARTON, Will-MEM SO 30 180 6.0

MINUTES PLAYED Cl GP Minutes Avg/G
3. MOORE, Cameron-UAB SR 27 976 36.1
4. BARTON, Will-MEM SO 30 1062 35.4

(02-29-2012 03:03 PM)Tampa Bay Tiger Wrote:  

(02-29-2012 02:47 PM)blazers9911 Wrote:  You're right, Florida is not good. Wichita State and Creighton also suck. And Georgetown may have been the best team Memphis played. What was I thinking pointing out Barton struggled against 2 teams? Also, he still had those games against mediocre C-USA opponents.

Forida isn't good. Tennessee beat them twice.
Barton's better games:
Belmont: 23 and 5
Tennessee: 25 and 11
Georgetown: 22 and 4
Murray State: 27 and 5
@Miami: 27 and 14
@Louisville: 28 and 16
@Georgetown: 12 and 11
Marshall: 29 and 8
@Marshall: 24 and 6

Overall, he's averaging a little over 18 and 8 for the season as a guard. He'll win this award by a mile.

So, using this stupidass logic Memphis is no good because UTEP beat them? Come on, every team has an opponent they struggle against.

And I wasn't necessarily arguing Barton hasn't been consistent, I was just pointing out that if you were going to say Cam didn't show up in several games, it's hard not to say the same thing about Barton.

So it comes down to stats neither player excells in, for Barton blocks and for Cam assists, so to be picky, I see where Barton is the number 1 scorer in the league and Cam is the number 3 scorer, I dont see much difference in those numbers.

Now here is where the rubber meets the road. Cam is the number 3 scorer, the number 1 rebounder and the number 1 shot blocker in the league, to me I believe ( as well as opposing coaches ) Cam is dominating his position and is worthy of POY honors.

POY should dominate position, demand double teams, should be the focus of their teams offense and the other teams defense.

Both players are good, but only Cam dominates position and demands double teams.

Ask yourselves this, is Memphis with Cam and without Barton still a good team? proably yes. Now is UAB without Cam and with Barton a better team? the answer is No.
I will stick with Cam over Barton for POY.

UAB also plays a much slower game than Memphis. If UAB had an extra 5-10 possessions a game, Cam would probably have a higher scoring average.

All 13 ESPN "experts" in this article picked Barton to win POY. Eustachy beats out Pastner 10-3 in COY votes.

My opinion: The two candidates are very even. Team success will be the deciding factor, and I agree with that.

In my opinion, there is no question. Barton gets POY.