As long as none of them are football-only and the exit fees are sufficient, I'd have no problem with adding the 3 mentioned Eastern schools, if we have to, to get even divisions in football. I'd rather just have 14 teams if we can manage that. I don't know how long the Eastern schools would hang around, I'm sure before long they'd have designs on creating their own Eastern FBS conference.

(02-26-2012 07:09 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  As long as none of them are football-only and the exit fees are sufficient, I'd have no problem with adding the 3 mentioned Eastern schools, if we have to, to get even divisions in football. I'd rather just have 14 teams if we can manage that. I don't know how long the Eastern schools would hang around, I'm sure before long they'd have designs on creating their own Eastern FBS conference.

That's the reason why it's a bad idea. We don't need another Temple/UMass fiasco.

(02-26-2012 08:48 PM)huskiebob Wrote:  

(02-26-2012 07:09 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  As long as none of them are football-only and the exit fees are sufficient, I'd have no problem with adding the 3 mentioned Eastern schools, if we have to, to get even divisions in football. I'd rather just have 14 teams if we can manage that. I don't know how long the Eastern schools would hang around, I'm sure before long they'd have designs on creating their own Eastern FBS conference.

That's the reason why it's a bad idea. We don't need another Temple/UMass fiasco.

A "conference split" scenario would be farther away than you might think.

If the MAC were to add the three schools I mentioned ( JMU, UD, and ODU), I seriously doubt any one of them would make a break for another conference. JMU's leadership are extremely cautious and doesn't like to make quick decsions, neither does UD (as many of you already know), ODU, not 100%, but I would think they would be a little reserved about moving without one of their rivals. Secondly, JMU is quite comparable to Miami (OH) and Ohio University. With UD the MAC will have Delaware and the Philadelphia market if Temple were to leave. With ODU, you will garner the Norfolk/VA Beach area, and with JMU you will have the DC market (JMU has 20,000 plus alumni in DC) and Richmond, along with the Valley. As many of you know, JMU will be playing WVU at FedEx on September 15.

I am okay with coming in all sports with the MAC and I know others are as well. I like the MAC to be honest and think it would be a good fit of JMU and the other two schools. But like I said earlier, I think for it to work well for the MAC and the schools being upgraded, the MAC would need to invite at least two of the three schools to help maintain the rivalries and traditions. BTW, went to the ODU/JMU football game in Norfolk last year and I can tell you that this rivalry has the potential and will probably be a Michigan/Ohio State type rivalry. Anyway, the MAC needs to do what is right for them and if that is getting rid of one school to get to 12 or adding different schools to promote their conference, then that is what they should do. Good luck to the MAC, really enjoyed watching some of your football games last year.

(02-27-2012 10:16 PM)jmufan Wrote:  If the MAC were to add the three schools I mentioned ( JMU, UD, and ODU), I seriously doubt any one of them would make a break for another conference. JMU's leadership are extremely cautious and doesn't like to make quick decsions, neither does UD (as many of you already know), ODU, not 100%, but I would think they would be a little reserved about moving without one of their rivals. Secondly, JMU is quite comparable to Miami (OH) and Ohio University. With UD the MAC will have Delaware and the Philadelphia market if Temple were to leave. With ODU, you will garner the Norfolk/VA Beach area, and with JMU you will have the DC market (JMU has 20,000 plus alumni in DC) and Richmond, along with the Valley. As many of you know, JMU will be playing WVU at FedEx on September 15.

I am okay with coming in all sports with the MAC and I know others are as well. I like the MAC to be honest and think it would be a good fit of JMU and the other two schools. But like I said earlier, I think for it to work well for the MAC and the schools being upgraded, the MAC would need to invite at least two of the three schools to help maintain the rivalries and traditions. BTW, went to the ODU/JMU football game in Norfolk last year and I can tell you that this rivalry has the potential and will probably be a Michigan/Ohio State type rivalry. Anyway, the MAC needs to do what is right for them and if that is getting rid of one school to get to 12 or adding different schools to promote their conference, then that is what they should do. Good luck to the MAC, really enjoyed watching some of your football games last year.

JMU is a solid university. Still, I think the MAC is at its threshold. If changes are to come, then I believe the conference should split and form new alignments.

I really think it would be huge for the MAC if they could get those 3 to come all sports, especially if that would be enough for UMASS all sports. This would be good for Buffalo and good for recruiting for the whole conference. Also, we need more help in basketball than football so this is the sort of negotiations the MAC should be working on. In this case (if those schools would actually want to join), you'd be adding good basketball programs but taking FCS football programs in exchange. Both parties win. Not like in the past where we take the worst part of a team and let them keep the good outside. This is something that I'd be excited about and I'm sure that it would make the Buffalo, Kent State, and Akron fans happy too. And if we couldn't get UMASS to join if this scenario would ever actually play out, I'd be interested in offering the same invite to Charlotte instead.

Somebody please send this thread to the MAC office. :-)

(02-28-2012 01:11 AM)Beckman4President Wrote:  Somebody please send this thread to the MAC office. :-)

I don't have a fax machine so I can't do it.

(02-28-2012 08:07 AM)BarnardHall211 Wrote:  

(02-28-2012 01:11 AM)Beckman4President Wrote:  Somebody please send this thread to the MAC office. :-)

I don't have a fax machine so I can't do it.

Zing!

Everyone needs to stop acting like we (the MAC schools) are desperate to add more members. The schools you are talking about have zero options other than the MAC if they want to join FBS in football.

You do realize UMASS followed Temple into our conference for football only because they have aspirations of joining the Big East. It may be farfetched or closer to reality than we think, but that's their dream.

I'm sorry fellas, but there isn't a school in the country that is thinking, "hey, let's move up to FBS and join the MAC as an all sports member."

Did it ever occur to anyone that we hold the cards in any scenerio that involves a non-FBS school located from the Dakotas to the East Coast and north of Tennessee?

Why don't we focus on our 12 existing full time members and let schools approach us for membership? The scenerios being mentioned have potential for disaster. I'm not interested in being the senior in high school that asks a freshman to prom...AND GETS TURNED DOWN! As it sits right now, we aren't very attractive unless we are talking about FBS football. We need to get better before we talk about expansion.

Of course it's nonsense that people are talking of the MAC demanding only full members. But it's silly to chide posters with your posts and new threads. Everyone can freely imagine, it's healthy chatter and means nothing. Except for when the MAC offered full-membership to UCF, they have not for other associate members. Duh, because UCF was looking to get their other sports out of the A-Sun. It was worth a shot to try for them.

MAC has wanted and wants to expand its FB brand. It's prudent. Football/markets/institutional profiles are what has driven the MAC's expansion and much of FBS reallignment, while basketball is a distant 4th. Who could ever see Syracuse/Georgetown or the Border War disappearing? But they will. It's tough seeing JMU leave their Virgina CAA rivals, but it's not out of the realm of posibility that JMU would want to speak to the MAC eventually. FBS inclusion matters that much. And, there definately are schools who would love becoming all-sports in the MAC (for example, Stony Brook, NDSU, or Liberty) who wouldn't mind leaving their all-sports leagues (AE, Summit, Big South).

But for right now, the easiest invites to expand the football footprint would only be to Army, Charlotte, or Stony Brook, since they are the only ones who are FBS or have talked of going FBS, who could come in FB-only with no all-sport invite needed. Army wouldn't likely go for it, but it's not likely the other 2 would be attractive in football to be poached by another league for year and years.

Nothing is out of the realm of possibility. But we need to examine the idea of whether these scenerios are "likely" or "unlikely."

As it sits right now, all of them are pretty unlikely.

Now, I don't like where our conference sits on the totem pole. And I definately don't like it when FCS football schools look down on our bball and potentially other sports. Point being, joining the MAC should be an upgrade for any team that wants FBS football. As it sits right now, the teams mentioned don't view it that way. We need to reverse that trend, otherwise the end result will not be what we want.

All this expansion talk is fueled by the desire for our schools to gain more exposure and money...which will lead to being more competitive down the road. This is an outstanding concept but I would argue that it cannot be accomplished under our current state of affairs. Get our men's bball programs back to a 2 bid league and schools will start knocking on our door.

But, who cares what other schools' fans believe about our basketball? For now with the MAC only looking at associate members, basketball doesn't matter much in this equation other than scheduling deals with associate members. If the time ever came where the MAC were searching for full-members, grabbing CAA/MVC schools is entirely possible. Just see how San Diego St and Hawaii didn't flinch about moving their sports and leaving rivalries to move to the lesser Big West, because the opportunities presented to them for better (and geographically crazy) football leagues were too good to pass up. That's now the precedent in college football today.

That some of their football fans usually view their programs highy, poo-poo-ing the MAC for dreams of the BE/Alliance, is their delusion. Marshall, a pereanial 1-AA power, came our way. UCF, one of the largest schools out there and now bound for the BE, chose us over the new SBC configuration. Temple wasn't too proud to join. Suddely, some MVFC and CAA fans see themselves as 'too good' for us, and claim moving to the MAC would be a lateral move? Good for them.

(02-27-2012 10:16 PM)jmufan Wrote:  If the MAC were to add the three schools I mentioned ( JMU, UD, and ODU), I seriously doubt any one of them would make a break for another conference. JMU's leadership are extremely cautious and doesn't like to make quick decsions, neither does UD (as many of you already know), ODU, not 100%, but I would think they would be a little reserved about moving without one of their rivals. Secondly, JMU is quite comparable to Miami (OH) and Ohio University. With UD the MAC will have Delaware and the Philadelphia market if Temple were to leave. With ODU, you will garner the Norfolk/VA Beach area, and with JMU you will have the DC market (JMU has 20,000 plus alumni in DC) and Richmond, along with the Valley. As many of you know, JMU will be playing WVU at FedEx on September 15.

I am okay with coming in all sports with the MAC and I know others are as well. I like the MAC to be honest and think it would be a good fit of JMU and the other two schools. But like I said earlier, I think for it to work well for the MAC and the schools being upgraded, the MAC would need to invite at least two of the three schools to help maintain the rivalries and traditions. BTW, went to the ODU/JMU football game in Norfolk last year and I can tell you that this rivalry has the potential and will probably be a Michigan/Ohio State type rivalry. Anyway, the MAC needs to do what is right for them and if that is getting rid of one school to get to 12 or adding different schools to promote their conference, then that is what they should do. Good luck to the MAC, really enjoyed watching some of your football games last year.

But they would move to another conference as a bloc, just like they would be doing when joining the MAC if they ever did.

(02-28-2012 04:06 PM)EA3 Wrote:  And I definately don't like it when FCS football schools look down on our bball and potentially other sports. Point being, joining the MAC should be an upgrade for any team that wants FBS football. As it sits right now, the teams mentioned don't view it that way. We need to reverse that trend, otherwise the end result will not be what we want.

Any school in the FCS that think poorly of an FBS league in my opinion is stupid. Yeah, you'll have your occasional FCS over FBS upset, but the fact is, the MAC has something that FCS schools want, so to think lowly of a conference that has a higher label is just plain dumb.

(02-28-2012 04:50 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(02-27-2012 10:16 PM)jmufan Wrote:  [b]If the MAC were to add the three schools I mentioned ( JMU, UD, and ODU), I seriously doubt any one of them would make a break for another conference. JMU's leadership are extremely cautious and doesn't like to make quick decsions, neither does UD (as many of you already know), ODU, not 100%, but I would think they would be a little reserved about moving without one of their rivals.

But they would move to another conference as a bloc, just like they would be doing when joining the MAC if they ever did.

Moving as a block is a crap-shoot, historically. CUSA teams have moved in blocs to the BE twice now of recent, and so far none have gone further (pending if the Big12 goes for Louisville). 3 Texas Southland teams are moving to the WAC, but so far none are being seriously talked about for the Alliance. Neither ODU, UD, JMU have the markets the nBE would likely care about so the only real chance of them leaving in a bloc would likely be with some MAC East program to form a new league....unlikely with current confernce formation rules. Then again, it seems some West fans wouldn't seem to mind seeing their league shrink to 8-9 and back to a true Mid-Western configuration.

(02-28-2012 06:04 PM)RecoveringHillbilly Wrote:  

(02-28-2012 04:50 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(02-27-2012 10:16 PM)jmufan Wrote:  [b]If the MAC were to add the three schools I mentioned ( JMU, UD, and ODU), I seriously doubt any one of them would make a break for another conference. JMU's leadership are extremely cautious and doesn't like to make quick decsions, neither does UD (as many of you already know), ODU, not 100%, but I would think they would be a little reserved about moving without one of their rivals.

But they would move to another conference as a bloc, just like they would be doing when joining the MAC if they ever did.

Moving as a block is a crap-shoot, historically. CUSA teams have moved in blocs to the BE twice now of recent, and so far none have gone further (pending if the Big12 goes for Louisville). 3 Texas Southland teams are moving to the WAC, but so far none are being seriously talked about for the Alliance. Neither ODU, UD, JMU have the markets the nBE would likely care about so the only real chance of them leaving in a bloc would likely be with some MAC East program to form a new league....unlikely with current confernce formation rules. Then again, it seems some West fans wouldn't seem to mind seeing their league shrink to 8-9 and back to a true Mid-Western configuration.

It may be a crapshoot, but that doesn't mean they won't try it.

(02-28-2012 06:03 PM)jmufan Wrote:  

(02-28-2012 04:06 PM)EA3 Wrote:  And I definately don't like it when FCS football schools look down on our bball and potentially other sports. Point being, joining the MAC should be an upgrade for any team that wants FBS football. As it sits right now, the teams mentioned don't view it that way. We need to reverse that trend, otherwise the end result will not be what we want.

Any school in the FCS that think poorly of an FBS league in my opinion is stupid. Yeah, you'll have your occasional FCS over FBS upset, but the fact is, the MAC has something that FCS schools want, so to think lowly of a conference that has a higher label is just plain dumb.

Certainly it is good to hear from a JMU fan. Unfortunately I think you are in the minority. Every FCS member I've heard from looks down on the MAC, mainly because of bball.

(02-28-2012 09:18 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  It may be a crapshoot, but that doesn't mean they won't try it.

What is 'it'? What league out there would those schools move to? A MAC split is more likely to occur.

(02-28-2012 10:18 PM)RecoveringHillbilly Wrote:  

(02-28-2012 09:18 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  It may be a crapshoot, but that doesn't mean they won't try it.

What is 'it'? What league out there would those schools move to? A MAC split is more likely to occur.

I was including a MAC split in the possibilities. If any more FCS teams moved up the FBS (to any conference), they'd be likely candidates to join in the split.