(02-18-2012 05:47 PM)Usajags Wrote:  For that I am glad, I wouldn't want to be in that disaster of a conference.

Good. Then get out of here. Nobody wants you in our conference anyway.

(02-18-2012 12:54 PM)HappyAppy Wrote:  They also have a ton more potential than Marshall does, correct?

Im old enough to know that if the right people are put in place at those 2 schools the sky is probably the limit for them. Ive been in Green and White all of my life and I know I will never see my university in what is considered a power conference and Im fine with that.

But atleast I will never see my school play a conferece game in a 5,000 seat stadium like Appy will this year.

(02-18-2012 04:25 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  This discussion isn't about the SoCon's TV revenue, but I know you guys will take any opportunity to try and convince yourselves how big time Marshall is. I could care less who is or isn't talking about ASU and especially that some yahoo from Marshall thinks ODU and Charlotte have more potential than ASU.

The thought was sent out that we would go broke by an Appy fan. I was just compairing the TV money Marshall brought in to the money Appy broght in. I didn't even bring up that the SoCon had to pay Sports South to air SoCon games the previous years.

If you don't want to accept it, thats fine you will soon find out that ODU and Charlotte will be in a better place than Little Appy in 10 years. Both of those schools have more upside than Appy.

Appy just better pray that the alliance takes more than just 1 school. And that the new commish of the Sun Belt is willing to take you. My guess is you don't get in there either since he will most likely take a WAC school instead. You will still be playing the Elon and Samford's of the world in 5 years.

Its funny that all these Marshall fans keep harping on potential. Even playing the Samfords and the Elons, in our pitiful little division in our pitiful little stadium, we bring in more fans then you. You've had a 15 year head start on the FBS, which is long enough that you should be drawing more fans then is, yet not long enough for you to have this misplaced arrogance towards us. I'll be the first to admit that a school like Charlotte has more potential than us. If everything goes right, they could blow up and be a huge success. Still doesn't mean they will. Houston and SMU have more potential than ECU. Call me those schools draw anywhere close to what ECU does.

I'm sorry that we are not mentioned on a message board or in an espn blogpost by Andy Katz. Oh no, well will never go FBS now!!

At the end of the day, I think there is more potential for a FCS school in a small market that is bringing in 29,000 for regular season games (even against those little teams like Samford and Elon) over a FBS school in a small market that is bringing in thousands less per game over the last few years (like Marshall).

I do find it funny that Marshall fans want to bring in a school with "potential" aka they are in a large market. This hasn't worked out very well for them in the past. That team with a bigger market eventually passing them and they then get the invite to a better conference. Someone is playing checkers in the game of chess.

You know I could almost understand if it came from fans of a legit school, but Marshall? Seriously? Let's explore this market size stuff a little more. According to 2010 population numbers over 70,000 more people live in Watauga and surrounding counties (50 miles) than in Cabell and those surrounding Huntington. Including Wayne County and the state capital of Charleston.

(02-18-2012 11:33 PM)HappyAppy Wrote:  Its funny that all these Marshall fans keep harping on potential. Even playing the Samfords and the Elons, in our pitiful little division in our pitiful little stadium, we bring in more fans then you. You've had a 15 year head start on the FBS, which is long enough that you should be drawing more fans then is, yet not long enough for you to have this misplaced arrogance towards us. I'll be the first to admit that a school like Charlotte has more potential than us. If everything goes right, they could blow up and be a huge success. Still doesn't mean they will. Houston and SMU have more potential than ECU. Call me those schools draw anywhere close to what ECU does.

I'm sorry that we are not mentioned on a message board or in an espn blogpost by Andy Katz. Oh no, well will never go FBS now!!

At the end of the day, I think there is more potential for a FCS school in a small market that is bringing in 29,000 for regular season games (even against those little teams like Samford and Elon) over a FBS school in a small market that is bringing in thousands less per game over the last few years (like Marshall).

Technically we are not in what I would call a "small market". Its not a huge market like by no means but we are middle of the pack in 60 range of TV rankings.

In football we've been down in recent years so obviously the fan support will be a little lower than what it will be once we get back to winning consistently again. Another thing you don't mention is ticket prices and ticket giveaways. We don't give tickets away like you guys do and some of our tickets are in the $50 dollar range.

The bottom line is that App State doesn't have the budget, fan support in basketball, TV Market or a location that is easily accessible for other teams flying in. For those reasons, you guys will not be a candidate for this conference.

Sunbelt? I think there is a chance. You budget does fit those schools and geographically speaking you might get a look.

(02-19-2012 10:22 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  You know I could almost understand if it came from fans of a legit school, but Marshall? Seriously? Let's explore this market size stuff a little more. According to 2010 population numbers over 70,000 more people live in Watauga and surrounding counties (50 miles) than in Cabell and those surrounding Huntington. Including Wayne County and the state capital of Charleston.

Yeah, lets explore the market stuff a little more.....65th ranking nationally.

http://www.tvb.org/media/file/TVB_Market..._RANKS.pdf

(02-18-2012 10:45 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  Appy just better pray that the alliance takes more than just 1 school. And that the new commish of the Sun Belt is willing to take you. My guess is you don't get in there either since he will most likely take a WAC school instead. You will still be playing the Elon and Samford's of the world in 5 years.

Highly unlikely, in my opinion. Our best bet for getting an FBS invite is via the Sun Belt and although it may not be immediate, I think it will happen sooner rather than later. Our budget and attendance is right on par with most of those schools, and higher than a handful of them.

Between the possibility of FIU/FAU leaving the conference and their commissioner's desire to expand, there will be spots opening up in that conference and we are certainly on their radar. You are correct about the ceiling for ODU, Charlotte, GA State, etc. being higher than ASU because of their markets. However, of the FCS schools looking to move up, we are the most prepared to do so at this point.

(02-18-2012 05:03 PM)Usajags Wrote:  The people saying it won't cost much more have no idea what travel actually cost. Trust me, I work in the travel industry, airplanes are expensive, jet fuel is expensive, so unless you plan on putting these kids on buses you're travel cost will go up. No longer are you going to Memphis, now you are going to Wyoming, no longer are you going to Houston, you are going to UNLV, no longer are you going to Orlando, you are going to Hawaii.

What part of "limited cross divisional travel" don't you understand? With two eight team divisions you play your seven division rivals and two cross division games, one of which is a home game. If you have two nine team divisions you play your eight division games and either one cross division game or you can skip them entirely. Neither scenario requires considerably more travel than C-USA and the MWC already have.

Now go back the Sun Belt board and stop spamming every thread here with your rubbish. No one wants you and no one cares what you think.

(02-19-2012 10:28 AM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  

(02-18-2012 11:33 PM)HappyAppy Wrote:  Its funny that all these Marshall fans keep harping on potential. Even playing the Samfords and the Elons, in our pitiful little division in our pitiful little stadium, we bring in more fans then you. You've had a 15 year head start on the FBS, which is long enough that you should be drawing more fans then is, yet not long enough for you to have this misplaced arrogance towards us. I'll be the first to admit that a school like Charlotte has more potential than us. If everything goes right, they could blow up and be a huge success. Still doesn't mean they will. Houston and SMU have more potential than ECU. Call me those schools draw anywhere close to what ECU does.

I'm sorry that we are not mentioned on a message board or in an espn blogpost by Andy Katz. Oh no, well will never go FBS now!!

At the end of the day, I think there is more potential for a FCS school in a small market that is bringing in 29,000 for regular season games (even against those little teams like Samford and Elon) over a FBS school in a small market that is bringing in thousands less per game over the last few years (like Marshall).

Technically we are not in what I would call a "small market". Its not a huge market like by no means but we are middle of the pack in 60 range of TV rankings.

In football we've been down in recent years so obviously the fan support will be a little lower than what it will be once we get back to winning consistently again. Another thing you don't mention is ticket prices and ticket giveaways. We don't give tickets away like you guys do and some of our tickets are in the $50 dollar range.

The bottom line is that App State doesn't have the budget, fan support in basketball, TV Market or a location that is easily accessible for other teams flying in. For those reasons, you guys will not be a candidate for this conference.

Sunbelt? I think there is a chance. You budget does fit those schools and geographically speaking you might get a look.

The budget issue is a moot point. Our budget is smaller now because we are playing in the FCS and we don't need a bigger budget. Cobb has already said the budget would go to 21 million, and that was when he was basing it off a current budget of 15 million. Doing the math from our current FCS budget (I believe it's around 17 million), our athletIc budget in FBS will be atleast 23 million. That would not be the top of CUSA but it would not be the bottom either.

As far as travel, I think you are really overestimating how big of a deal it is to ride a bus 2 hours from the airport as opposed to half an hour or one hour.

(02-19-2012 10:31 AM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  

(02-19-2012 10:22 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  You know I could almost understand if it came from fans of a legit school, but Marshall? Seriously? Let's explore this market size stuff a little more. According to 2010 population numbers over 70,000 more people live in Watauga and surrounding counties (50 miles) than in Cabell and those surrounding Huntington. Including Wayne County and the state capital of Charleston.

Yeah, lets explore the market stuff a little more.....65th ranking nationally.

http://www.tvb.org/media/file/TVB_Market..._RANKS.pdf

ASU is covered by #25 and #46. USM, #167.

(02-19-2012 10:28 AM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  

(02-18-2012 11:33 PM)HappyAppy Wrote:  Its funny that all these Marshall fans keep harping on potential. Even playing the Samfords and the Elons, in our pitiful little division in our pitiful little stadium, we bring in more fans then you. You've had a 15 year head start on the FBS, which is long enough that you should be drawing more fans then is, yet not long enough for you to have this misplaced arrogance towards us. I'll be the first to admit that a school like Charlotte has more potential than us. If everything goes right, they could blow up and be a huge success. Still doesn't mean they will. Houston and SMU have more potential than ECU. Call me those schools draw anywhere close to what ECU does.

I'm sorry that we are not mentioned on a message board or in an espn blogpost by Andy Katz. Oh no, well will never go FBS now!!

At the end of the day, I think there is more potential for a FCS school in a small market that is bringing in 29,000 for regular season games (even against those little teams like Samford and Elon) over a FBS school in a small market that is bringing in thousands less per game over the last few years (like Marshall).

Technically we are not in what I would call a "small market". Its not a huge market like by no means but we are middle of the pack in 60 range of TV rankings.

In football we've been down in recent years so obviously the fan support will be a little lower than what it will be once we get back to winning consistently again. Another thing you don't mention is ticket prices and ticket giveaways. We don't give tickets away like you guys do and some of our tickets are in the $50 dollar range.

The bottom line is that App State doesn't have the budget, fan support in basketball, TV Market or a location that is easily accessible for other teams flying in. For those reasons, you guys will not be a candidate for this conference.

Sunbelt? I think there is a chance. You budget does fit those schools and geographically speaking you might get a look.

You are comparing ASU's FCS budget to those in FBS? That's pretty sharp. For comparison I would like to see what MU's budget was when they were in the SoCon and the MAC. Marshall increased ticket prices for the Va Tech game to $50, but otherwise they are between $47 & $30. At ASU prices are $32 & $27 while club seating is $50. Not to shabby for a little FCS program.

(02-19-2012 01:38 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(02-19-2012 10:28 AM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  

(02-18-2012 11:33 PM)HappyAppy Wrote:  Its funny that all these Marshall fans keep harping on potential. Even playing the Samfords and the Elons, in our pitiful little division in our pitiful little stadium, we bring in more fans then you. You've had a 15 year head start on the FBS, which is long enough that you should be drawing more fans then is, yet not long enough for you to have this misplaced arrogance towards us. I'll be the first to admit that a school like Charlotte has more potential than us. If everything goes right, they could blow up and be a huge success. Still doesn't mean they will. Houston and SMU have more potential than ECU. Call me those schools draw anywhere close to what ECU does.

I'm sorry that we are not mentioned on a message board or in an espn blogpost by Andy Katz. Oh no, well will never go FBS now!!

At the end of the day, I think there is more potential for a FCS school in a small market that is bringing in 29,000 for regular season games (even against those little teams like Samford and Elon) over a FBS school in a small market that is bringing in thousands less per game over the last few years (like Marshall).

Technically we are not in what I would call a "small market". Its not a huge market like by no means but we are middle of the pack in 60 range of TV rankings.

In football we've been down in recent years so obviously the fan support will be a little lower than what it will be once we get back to winning consistently again. Another thing you don't mention is ticket prices and ticket giveaways. We don't give tickets away like you guys do and some of our tickets are in the $50 dollar range.

The bottom line is that App State doesn't have the budget, fan support in basketball, TV Market or a location that is easily accessible for other teams flying in. For those reasons, you guys will not be a candidate for this conference.

Sunbelt? I think there is a chance. You budget does fit those schools and geographically speaking you might get a look.

You are comparing ASU's FCS budget to those in FBS? That's pretty sharp. For comparison I would like to see what MU's budget was when they were in the SoCon and the MAC. Marshall increased ticket prices for the Va Tech game to $50, but otherwise they are between $47 & $30. At ASU prices are $32 & $27 while club seating is $50. Not to shabby for a little FCS program.

The Gold Seats are $50/game ($300 a season), but the club seats are $500 a year or $83/game. All 700 were sold out as soon as it opened. My wife gets on me every year about not signing up when we had the chance, now we're on the waiting list (unfortunately pretty far down it). If they build stands in the North endzones they could sell 500 club seats next year the demand is so high for those things.

I hear a lot about programs with potential, but I don't hear many that average just under 30k that sell out 700 club seats and 18 suites at $25k a piece playing an FCS schedule no less.

(02-19-2012 12:38 PM)HappyAppy Wrote:  

(02-19-2012 10:28 AM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  

(02-18-2012 11:33 PM)HappyAppy Wrote:  Its funny that all these Marshall fans keep harping on potential. Even playing the Samfords and the Elons, in our pitiful little division in our pitiful little stadium, we bring in more fans then you. You've had a 15 year head start on the FBS, which is long enough that you should be drawing more fans then is, yet not long enough for you to have this misplaced arrogance towards us. I'll be the first to admit that a school like Charlotte has more potential than us. If everything goes right, they could blow up and be a huge success. Still doesn't mean they will. Houston and SMU have more potential than ECU. Call me those schools draw anywhere close to what ECU does.

I'm sorry that we are not mentioned on a message board or in an espn blogpost by Andy Katz. Oh no, well will never go FBS now!!

At the end of the day, I think there is more potential for a FCS school in a small market that is bringing in 29,000 for regular season games (even against those little teams like Samford and Elon) over a FBS school in a small market that is bringing in thousands less per game over the last few years (like Marshall).

Technically we are not in what I would call a "small market". Its not a huge market like by no means but we are middle of the pack in 60 range of TV rankings.

In football we've been down in recent years so obviously the fan support will be a little lower than what it will be once we get back to winning consistently again. Another thing you don't mention is ticket prices and ticket giveaways. We don't give tickets away like you guys do and some of our tickets are in the $50 dollar range.

The bottom line is that App State doesn't have the budget, fan support in basketball, TV Market or a location that is easily accessible for other teams flying in. For those reasons, you guys will not be a candidate for this conference.

Sunbelt? I think there is a chance. You budget does fit those schools and geographically speaking you might get a look.

The budget issue is a moot point. Our budget is smaller now because we are playing in the FCS and we don't need a bigger budget. Cobb has already said the budget would go to 21 million, and that was when he was basing it off a current budget of 15 million. Doing the math from our current FCS budget (I believe it's around 17 million), our athletIc budget in FBS will be atleast 23 million. That would not be the top of CUSA but it would not be the bottom either.

As far as travel, I think you are really overestimating how big of a deal it is to ride a bus 2 hours from the airport as opposed to half an hour or one hour.

That's simply not true. Budget size does matter and don't say your budget is a result of being FCS level ball.

Just for comparison sake, Old Dominion and James Madison both of which are FCS have a budget of around 30 Million dollars. That's nearly double of what your current budget is which as of 2010 was only 16 Million.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/n...nances.htm

(02-19-2012 01:08 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(02-19-2012 10:31 AM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  

(02-19-2012 10:22 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  You know I could almost understand if it came from fans of a legit school, but Marshall? Seriously? Let's explore this market size stuff a little more. According to 2010 population numbers over 70,000 more people live in Watauga and surrounding counties (50 miles) than in Cabell and those surrounding Huntington. Including Wayne County and the state capital of Charleston.

Yeah, lets explore the market stuff a little more.....65th ranking nationally.

http://www.tvb.org/media/file/TVB_Market..._RANKS.pdf

ASU is covered by #25 and #46. USM, #167.

You don't carry the Charlotte market. There is a reason why sources are telling ESPN that the University of Charlotte is being considered over App State. If you guys truly carried the Charlotte market it might be a different story. Truth is that it takes over 2 hrs to get to Charlotte from Boone, NC.

(02-19-2012 03:51 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  

(02-19-2012 01:38 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(02-19-2012 10:28 AM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  

(02-18-2012 11:33 PM)HappyAppy Wrote:  Its funny that all these Marshall fans keep harping on potential. Even playing the Samfords and the Elons, in our pitiful little division in our pitiful little stadium, we bring in more fans then you. You've had a 15 year head start on the FBS, which is long enough that you should be drawing more fans then is, yet not long enough for you to have this misplaced arrogance towards us. I'll be the first to admit that a school like Charlotte has more potential than us. If everything goes right, they could blow up and be a huge success. Still doesn't mean they will. Houston and SMU have more potential than ECU. Call me those schools draw anywhere close to what ECU does.

I'm sorry that we are not mentioned on a message board or in an espn blogpost by Andy Katz. Oh no, well will never go FBS now!!

At the end of the day, I think there is more potential for a FCS school in a small market that is bringing in 29,000 for regular season games (even against those little teams like Samford and Elon) over a FBS school in a small market that is bringing in thousands less per game over the last few years (like Marshall).

Technically we are not in what I would call a "small market". Its not a huge market like by no means but we are middle of the pack in 60 range of TV rankings.

In football we've been down in recent years so obviously the fan support will be a little lower than what it will be once we get back to winning consistently again. Another thing you don't mention is ticket prices and ticket giveaways. We don't give tickets away like you guys do and some of our tickets are in the $50 dollar range.

The bottom line is that App State doesn't have the budget, fan support in basketball, TV Market or a location that is easily accessible for other teams flying in. For those reasons, you guys will not be a candidate for this conference.

Sunbelt? I think there is a chance. You budget does fit those schools and geographically speaking you might get a look.

You are comparing ASU's FCS budget to those in FBS? That's pretty sharp. For comparison I would like to see what MU's budget was when they were in the SoCon and the MAC. Marshall increased ticket prices for the Va Tech game to $50, but otherwise they are between $47 & $30. At ASU prices are $32 & $27 while club seating is $50. Not to shabby for a little FCS program.

The Gold Seats are $50/game ($300 a season), but the club seats are $500 a year or $83/game. All 700 were sold out as soon as it opened. My wife gets on me every year about not signing up when we had the chance, now we're on the waiting list (unfortunately pretty far down it). If they build stands in the North endzones they could sell 500 club seats next year the demand is so high for those things.

I hear a lot about programs with potential, but I don't hear many that average just under 30k that sell out 700 club seats and 18 suites at $25k a piece playing an FCS schedule no less.

Saint, I've never said that your attendance isn't impressive for an FCS school. I think it is impressive. But what you guys have to understand is that the conferences don't care as much about attendance as you may think. Take a look at ECU for example.....if it was all about attendance then ECU would have been the first school taken for expansion to the Big East and not Boise State followed by the others.

The bottom line is that TV market ranking, location, facilities, budget, and national appeal are now the driving force for a school getting picked for expansion purposes.

I live in south Charlotte and can get to ASU in an hour and 45 minutes, it is only 100 miles.

UNCC doesn't carry Charlotte, but none of the CUSA members really "carry" their markets they claim. They are 2nd or in most cases 3rd in those markets.

As for budgets, JMU has twice the budget ASU does true, but two counterpoints. JMU isn't as successful on the field as ASU even with twice the cash, and ASU's giving and revenue generation is higher than JMUs.

ASU is like the Southern Miss. of the FCS they get more out of their budget than most. Spending money does not equal success, just look at the federal government.

Southern Miss spend about 10M less than the average CUSA program yet finishes in the top 3 in football, basketball, and baseball regularly. Throwing out budget numbers like that makes you sound like Georgia St. fans, those numbers mean something but you need to look at where the money comes from and what the programs do with it as well.

Here's the truth no one outside of BCS conferences really carries their respective "markets".

Facilities - check

Market - we "carry" as much of the NC market (if not more) than UNCC does west of Raleigh.

Budget - not a problem, see previous post

National Appeal - I'd say we have as much appeal as many of the current members and definitely the potential candidates

Location - this hurts us more than any mentioned, but it isn't that hard to get to, there are two airports teams fly into within an hour driving distance

We're not as bad of an option as the Marshall fans would make us out to be.

This Budget thing has been beat to death in the past. Saw a thread somewhere a couple of months ago that explained the differences.
Appalachian State does not charge their students that much in student fees for athletics. Those other schools mentioned JMU, ODU etc are charging about four or more times as App State does in student athletic fees. Think about it. App has about 30,000 attendance at football games and makes a lot more than any of these other schools. They do not make anymore on TV money, zero, than they do, so when someone looked in to it that was the difference. All Appy has to do is raise those fees to students if they want or need to do so.