(01-24-2012 02:12 PM)BucNut22 Wrote:  

(01-24-2012 10:56 AM)slappywhite Wrote:  

(01-24-2012 10:51 AM)LetsgoBucs Wrote:  For what it's worth, according to the computer rankings the ASun is clearly a superior league to the SoCon, Big South, and OVC this year. In a down year Pitt.

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_...e-rankings

thats not going to sit well....silly facts.

i have never had a particular problem with the asun sports per se. its more the logistics, fan support (or lack of) from the member schools fan bases, and the fact that many of the members still think and act small time.

Facts???

An ESPN power ranking counts as facts? The sports world truly has become enslaved to the WWL.

Do tell, who has consistently finished ahead in RPI? Who has received more favorable NCAA seeds? Who has NCAA tournament wins? Who has top 25 rankings (coaches and media)?

A discussion about facts.........no I think not. You don't want to have THAT discussion.

i see your points as well, i just dont disagree as strongly as you do on the timeline.

so tell me 22, does building a football stadium jump the need for an arena?

to the "facts" issue, im not gonna fuss over this, but let me ask you, besides logistics and unstable stability, what makes the other conferences more appealing?

(01-24-2012 02:36 PM)etsuBucsFan1988 Wrote:  

(01-24-2012 02:07 PM)BucNut22 Wrote:  A tennis facility is being built before a basketball arena or practice facility.

A softball facility was built before a basketball arena or practice facility.

A baseball facility is being built before a basketball arena or practice facility.

A golf facility was built before a basketball arena or practice facility.

A soccer facility was built before a basketball arena or practice facility.

And from the looks of things, an outdoor track facility will be built before a basketball arena or practice facility.

ETSU's basketball budget is behind peer institutions while other sports are on par or ahead of their peers.


So remind me again, what is it that drives athletics at ETSU?

And yet there are those talking about where to put a brand new football stadium. So a new arena (or completely updated basketball friendly dome) does not seem to be on the radar I am imaging.

But I see your points, and I don't really have a problem with philosophy of starting with the small facilities and working your way up to the mega-dollar facilities. I guess it's the Dave Ramsey school of thought if you will.

No you build the arena first and then use the revnue it could generate (concerts, rodeos, tractor pulls are whatever the hell else you can rent it out for) to help pay for the other projects. Of all those facities none have the potential to actually MAKE money, a basketball arena would. See Northern Kentucky as an example.

(01-24-2012 02:07 PM)BucNut22 Wrote:  

(01-24-2012 12:39 PM)LetsgoBucs Wrote:  

(01-24-2012 11:53 AM)PittsburghBucs Wrote:  

(01-24-2012 10:48 AM)LetsgoBucs Wrote:  

(01-23-2012 10:43 PM)PittsburghBucs Wrote:  Let's face facts. The overwhelming reason why ETSU went to the Atlantic Sun and not the Big South or the OVC is so the football issue would not be prominent.

Secondary, when the two most powerful people in the program are the golf coach and the old tennis coach, a Florida conference is more desirable than a midwestern one like the OVC or one with the locations the Big South provides.

This makes no sense. Tennis and golf both go to Florida one time each this year. Every other sport makes two trips to Florida (other than track I'd guess). our reasoning of tennis and golf preferring a Florida conference is completely unfounded.

Completely unfounded? Do you know what the ETSU sports hiarchy is?

If you really think that a golf or tennis coach wouldn't be happy about a Florida trip(s) as compared to the trips he or she would have to take in the OVC or Big South?

You east Tennesseans who can't see the forest for the trees . . . .

For the record, I'm not an east Tennessean, but I'm not even sure that matters.

The sports hierarchy at ETSU is basketball first. Period. No questions, No debate. Look at the budget. Where the money is, is where the priorities lie. Men's and women's basketball basketball make up roughly 20% of the entire athletic budget. That ends that question.

Tennis has a higher level of importance at ETSU than at most peer schools, but it no way does it drive decision making. If you believe that, you are simply a fool Pitt. Golf in no way drives the decision making either. If tennis ruled the roost, don't you think a tennis facility would have been built by now? Before soccer, softball, and baseball? There is no question that tennis is Mullins favorite sport and he loves their success. To suggest that all decisions made are based on golf and tennis are simply making up something that isn't there. Look at spending, look at resources, look at energy of the athletic dept. Those sports don't get anywhere close to the lion's share.

Conference affiliation doesn't affect the scheduling of tennis and golf. I tried to point that out to you, by showing you that they both only make one trip to the state of Florida each, but you are choosing to ignore that. For out of conference trips tennis is going to Iowa, Nebraska, Georgia, and Kentucky. Your argument that they would dislike midwest travel is nonsense. Zaatini is going where the quality competition is. Again, look at the schedule. Golf goes to Florida once, South Carolina three times, and Puerto Rico. Your statement again is pure nonsense. Look at the schedule.

The real truth is Pitt, you need ETSU failure. It drives you and you thrive on complaining. You are the Rush Limbaugh of this board. Negativity is your forte and you will always be negative. It's clear through your postings. You remind me of Colin Cowherd (not a compliment). You aren't here to be right, you're here to stir up conversation. Except you think you're always right. You are overly positive in your rememberance of past ETSU success and overly negative at the current state of ETSU athletics.

A tennis facility is being built before a basketball arena or practice facility.

A softball facility was built before a basketball arena or practice facility.

A baseball facility is being built before a basketball arena or practice facility.

A golf facility was built before a basketball arena or practice facility.

A soccer facility was built before a basketball arena or practice facility.

And from the looks of things, an outdoor track facility will be built before a basketball arena or practice facility.

ETSU's basketball budget is behind peer institutions while other sports are on par or ahead of their peers.


So remind me again, what is it that drives athletics at ETSU?

You can disagree with me if you choose, but I think the lack of a new arena has more to do with Mullins confidence and competence as a fundraiser than it is about priorities. I personally don't think he believes he can raise the money for an arena and is scared to try. I think that's why he is looking at building an arena inside the Dome. The price tag of the other new facilities are not as scary to him.

Again, basketball is the driving force in ETSU athletics. A budget behind peer institutions doesn't indicate priority. The amount of money ETSU currently has in its budget, and the allocation to basketball of that money is the biggest indicator of priorities to me. The most significant allocation to any area in the athletics department is to basketball.

Yes, the basketball budget needs to be increased. Yes, they desperately need a new arena. Personally I think they need a new coach if they are going to become a significant mid-major program. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the state of the basketball program is the most pressing need for ETSU athletics, not football. It is simply not good enough. That is more about Mullins abilities as an administrator and again not an indicator of priorities in my opinion.

The basketball team is still eating steak at ETSU while the other sports are eating hamburger, comparatively. I'm not saying basketball is good enough, it's simply what Mullins cares about the most. Like I said, feel free to disagree, that's simply my take.

(01-24-2012 02:12 PM)BucNut22 Wrote:  

(01-24-2012 10:56 AM)slappywhite Wrote:  

(01-24-2012 10:51 AM)LetsgoBucs Wrote:  For what it's worth, according to the computer rankings the ASun is clearly a superior league to the SoCon, Big South, and OVC this year. In a down year Pitt.

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_...e-rankings

thats not going to sit well....silly facts.

i have never had a particular problem with the asun sports per se. its more the logistics, fan support (or lack of) from the member schools fan bases, and the fact that many of the members still think and act small time.

Facts???

An ESPN power ranking counts as facts? The sports world truly has become enslaved to the WWL.

Do tell, who has consistently finished ahead in RPI? Who has received more favorable NCAA seeds? Who has NCAA tournament wins? Who has top 25 rankings (coaches and media)?

A discussion about facts.........no I think not. You don't want to have THAT discussion.

The ESPN rankings are not an indicator of historical strength. I posted that simply as a measure of right now. In the present, the 2011-2012 season, the ASun is the best of the above mentioned conferences. That's all I suggested, nothing more.


And you discount the ESPN computer rankings, but put your full confidence behind the RPI, a measure every coach and analyst believe is flawed and is rarely used in determining NCAA seeds? I find that inconsistent.

(01-24-2012 02:55 PM)RodShaw2 Wrote:  

(01-24-2012 02:36 PM)etsuBucsFan1988 Wrote:  

(01-24-2012 02:07 PM)BucNut22 Wrote:  A tennis facility is being built before a basketball arena or practice facility.

A softball facility was built before a basketball arena or practice facility.

A baseball facility is being built before a basketball arena or practice facility.

A golf facility was built before a basketball arena or practice facility.

A soccer facility was built before a basketball arena or practice facility.

And from the looks of things, an outdoor track facility will be built before a basketball arena or practice facility.

ETSU's basketball budget is behind peer institutions while other sports are on par or ahead of their peers.


So remind me again, what is it that drives athletics at ETSU?

And yet there are those talking about where to put a brand new football stadium. So a new arena (or completely updated basketball friendly dome) does not seem to be on the radar I am imaging.

But I see your points, and I don't really have a problem with philosophy of starting with the small facilities and working your way up to the mega-dollar facilities. I guess it's the Dave Ramsey school of thought if you will.

No you build the arena first and then use the revnue it could generate (concerts, rodeos, tractor pulls are whatever the hell else you can rent it out for) to help pay for the other projects. Of all those facities none have the potential to actually MAKE money, a basketball arena would. See Northern Kentucky as an example.

THIS! THIS! THIS!

Why is this so difficult to understand?

(01-24-2012 02:41 PM)slappywhite Wrote:  

(01-24-2012 02:12 PM)BucNut22 Wrote:  

(01-24-2012 10:56 AM)slappywhite Wrote:  

(01-24-2012 10:51 AM)LetsgoBucs Wrote:  For what it's worth, according to the computer rankings the ASun is clearly a superior league to the SoCon, Big South, and OVC this year. In a down year Pitt.

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_...e-rankings

thats not going to sit well....silly facts.

i have never had a particular problem with the asun sports per se. its more the logistics, fan support (or lack of) from the member schools fan bases, and the fact that many of the members still think and act small time.

Facts???

An ESPN power ranking counts as facts? The sports world truly has become enslaved to the WWL.

Do tell, who has consistently finished ahead in RPI? Who has received more favorable NCAA seeds? Who has NCAA tournament wins? Who has top 25 rankings (coaches and media)?

A discussion about facts.........no I think not. You don't want to have THAT discussion.

i see your points as well, i just dont disagree as strongly as you do on the timeline.

so tell me 22, does building a football stadium jump the need for an arena?

to the "facts" issue, im not gonna fuss over this, but let me ask you, besides logistics and unstable stability, what makes the other conferences more appealing?

Football has the ability to help basketball so........yes a football facility would take priority were a decision make to restart the football program. Fund raising and building should have started on a new basketball arena years ago, something which would have made this entire conversation moot. And the basketball arena could be helping to fund any and all future endeavors (including football). Just like the creation of the soccer team and Summer Taylor stadium should have also come with an outdoor track thereby increasing the bang for buck. Sadly ETSU does not think in these terms however.

For the SOCON the major appeal is both the rivalries and the higher prestige conference. We`ll never get 8,000 butts in the seats for even the "biggest" A-Sun game. The SOCON has a lot more teams that people actually want to watch the Bucs plays. The SOCON also has the means to facilitate Buccaneer football.

The OVC is much the same, though it lacks the historic rivalries. Murry, Morehead, Austin Peay, have all made the NCAA's within the last 4 years, add in Belmont and you have a nice mix of teams.

(01-24-2012 06:14 PM)BucNut22 Wrote:  

(01-24-2012 02:55 PM)RodShaw2 Wrote:  

(01-24-2012 02:36 PM)etsuBucsFan1988 Wrote:  

(01-24-2012 02:07 PM)BucNut22 Wrote:  A tennis facility is being built before a basketball arena or practice facility.

A softball facility was built before a basketball arena or practice facility.

A baseball facility is being built before a basketball arena or practice facility.

A golf facility was built before a basketball arena or practice facility.

A soccer facility was built before a basketball arena or practice facility.

And from the looks of things, an outdoor track facility will be built before a basketball arena or practice facility.

ETSU's basketball budget is behind peer institutions while other sports are on par or ahead of their peers.


So remind me again, what is it that drives athletics at ETSU?

And yet there are those talking about where to put a brand new football stadium. So a new arena (or completely updated basketball friendly dome) does not seem to be on the radar I am imaging.

But I see your points, and I don't really have a problem with philosophy of starting with the small facilities and working your way up to the mega-dollar facilities. I guess it's the Dave Ramsey school of thought if you will.

No you build the arena first and then use the revnue it could generate (concerts, rodeos, tractor pulls are whatever the hell else you can rent it out for) to help pay for the other projects. Of all those facities none have the potential to actually MAKE money, a basketball arena would. See Northern Kentucky as an example.

THIS! THIS! THIS!

Why is this so difficult to understand?

i dont know that arenas make that much money...do they?

(01-24-2012 06:32 PM)slappywhite Wrote:  

(01-24-2012 06:14 PM)BucNut22 Wrote:  

(01-24-2012 02:55 PM)RodShaw2 Wrote:  

(01-24-2012 02:36 PM)etsuBucsFan1988 Wrote:  

(01-24-2012 02:07 PM)BucNut22 Wrote:  A tennis facility is being built before a basketball arena or practice facility.

A softball facility was built before a basketball arena or practice facility.

A baseball facility is being built before a basketball arena or practice facility.

A golf facility was built before a basketball arena or practice facility.

A soccer facility was built before a basketball arena or practice facility.

And from the looks of things, an outdoor track facility will be built before a basketball arena or practice facility.

ETSU's basketball budget is behind peer institutions while other sports are on par or ahead of their peers.


So remind me again, what is it that drives athletics at ETSU?

And yet there are those talking about where to put a brand new football stadium. So a new arena (or completely updated basketball friendly dome) does not seem to be on the radar I am imaging.

But I see your points, and I don't really have a problem with philosophy of starting with the small facilities and working your way up to the mega-dollar facilities. I guess it's the Dave Ramsey school of thought if you will.

No you build the arena first and then use the revnue it could generate (concerts, rodeos, tractor pulls are whatever the hell else you can rent it out for) to help pay for the other projects. Of all those facities none have the potential to actually MAKE money, a basketball arena would. See Northern Kentucky as an example.

THIS! THIS! THIS!

Why is this so difficult to understand?

i dont know that arenas make that much money...do they?

How much do you figure the Roundhouse in Chatt pulls in from concerts and other events?

Living Christmas Tree plays and s**t

I don't expect it to fully fund athletics, we have student fees for that, but it can pull in revenue.

How much do arenas make? Bridgestone Arena's revenue kept NHL hockey in Nashville, period. The Predators would be the Winnipeg Jets, possibly the Quebec Nordiques or some other team had it not been for the efforts made here.
The concerts, rodeos, OVC Tournament, SEC Women's and Men's tournaments, etc... go towards funding the franchise.
The right kind of arena in Johnson City would attract some pretty solid acts musically. Until ETSU and JC are ready to figure it out though, nothing will change.

Wouldn't it be nice for big name concerts to come to Johnson City again?

Wouldn't it be nice to have minor pro sports?

When Freedom Hall was built, it enabled ETSU to actually host North Carolina for a basketball game. If and when Mister Jennings Arena is ever constructed, it would be a jewel that ETSU athletics could move to a better conference from and get those bigger name out-of-conference opponents to visit as well.

Why wasn't this deemed more important than a softball field to sell tickets to 20 parents and boyfriends?

You must mean mullns hut. It will seat an impressive five thousand fans and comes complete with special donor tiki bar.

(01-23-2012 07:49 AM)etsubuc Wrote:  I honestly cant believe that we are having this discussion. I certainly do want to move up to a conference that has some competition. If we cannot compete with Murray St. or Belmont, that is a us problem. I cant believe many people would want us to stay in a crappy conference just so we can win all the time. We see what that has gotten us in the ASUN.

Belmont has built momentum as a mid-major because they routinely winning their conference tournament and going to the national tournament. They have the perfect formula for a mid-major: an excellent coach and a crappy conference. The same formula worked for Murray State (and to a lesser extent Gonzaga) in basketball and Boise State in football. That consistent success propelled those teams to new heights and, in Boise's case, gave them the momentum to break into a major conference for their primary money-maker.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see ETSU in the A-10. It's a great conference. I'm just not convinced that we can consistently field competitive teams in all (or any) sports in that conference because of our budget constraints as a mid-sized public school in a relatively poor region. The A-10 is also sitting at 14 full members, meaning someone probably has to leave for us to go in. We have to actually build some momentum before we can make a move like that, the same way Boise State did before moving into the Big East, and we don't have anything close to that.

I'm not saying the SoCon should definitely be a final resting place for ETSU (and if it is, we could do a whole lot worse), but we're at square one. The university has little in the way of national prestige and needs to find a way to build that prestige. That means we have to be the biggest fish in a small pond for a while so we can go to the Big Dance. The SoCon is a step up in prestige from the Atlantic Sun, so if we can get in, we should do it. It's a conference where we have a chance at every championship every year with even, beatable competition at the top. With the exception of Samford, it's entirely in the Eastern Time Zone, and you don't have to fly anywhere unless you want to fly to Statesboro. If we're going to turn ETSU into a successful mid-major, that starts with success in conference. That's a big part of the overhaul of the athletics program that people on this board keep clamoring for.

There's a pattern in how good mid-majors emerge from the pack of mediorce schools that populate Division I. We have to follow that pattern if we expect to go anywhere. There is no way we could go to the A-10 or the CAA or the Sun Belt right now and expect them to take us seriously as a possible member with our awful basketball facilities, our detached athletic administration, and our total or near-total lack of name recognition.

For the love of the Christ child!

ETSU is not a Catholic or Northeastern school!

They got a better chance of getting into the freakin' SEC than the Atlantic 10!

(01-26-2012 05:58 AM)PittsburghBucs Wrote:  ETSU is not a Catholic or Northeastern school!
They got a better chance of getting into the freakin' SEC than the Atlantic 10!

Hyperbole aside, we are in complete agreement on this.

ETSU will never be an option for the A-10. And honestly, the A-10 shouldn't be an option for ETSU. Think travel is an issue in the A-Sun...what about those awesome road trips to Missouri, New York, Massachusetts, and Rhode Island?! (Speaking of that, why is SLU in the ATLANTIC-anything?)

For that matter, travel in the CAA is not great, but certainly better than the A-10.

The Sun Belt will have a spot opening next season with the departure of Denver, which should open the door for Jacksonville State to move up and another slot to open in the OVC. That or the SoCon should be the focus of the administration going forward. The Big South is a geographic fit, but I'm not sold on the quality of the league.

Forgive me for thinking bigger.

(01-26-2012 09:09 AM)etsuBucsFan1988 Wrote:  Forgive me for thinking bigger.

Sorry if it sounded like I was trying to put down any bigger conference ideas, far from it. By all means think big!!!

I wish ETSU was in the position to go after that spot in the Sun Belt itself rather than pencil Jax State in there. We SHOULD and CAN be on the level with MTSU and WKU or even better.

I agree with Mister. If we are going to move up to a higher level conference, we have to dominate our current conference. We've never done that in any conference. Not the SoCon, not the ASun. If we're talking about our current level, the SoCon makes more sense because of geography. If we want to move to a higher level than this, we have to have football. Not for revenue reasons, but because there aren't any higher level conferences in the East that are going to have a non-football school. The only conference that is high level without football is the A10, which I agree we won't get into. So we need football as a vehicle. However, I don't see a Sun Belt or a conference like that being a possibility for a long time. We simply aren't good enough at basketball. We have to dominate in basketball without football, or we have to have football and then consistently be the best in whatever conference we would be in. Not just have football, have winning football. That is a long way off. That will require a significant increase in money.

(01-26-2012 11:30 AM)LetsgoBucs Wrote:  I agree with Mister. If we are going to move up to a higher level conference, we have to dominate our current conference. We've never done that in any conference. Not the SoCon, not the ASun. If we're talking about our current level, the SoCon makes more sense because of geography. If we want to move to a higher level than this, we have to have football. Not for revenue reasons, but because there aren't any higher level conferences in the East that are going to have a non-football school. The only conference that is high level without football is the A10, which I agree we won't get into. So we need football as a vehicle. However, I don't see a Sun Belt or a conference like that being a possibility for a long time. We simply aren't good enough at basketball. We have to dominate in basketball without football, or we have to have football and then consistently be the best in whatever conference we would be in. Not just have football, have winning football. That is a long way off. That will require a significant increase in money.

Had Dechellis stayed and we not gotten the boot, that probably happens in the SOCON.

(01-26-2012 09:33 AM)TheShadow Wrote:  

(01-26-2012 09:09 AM)etsuBucsFan1988 Wrote:  Forgive me for thinking bigger.

Sorry if it sounded like I was trying to put down any bigger conference ideas, far from it. By all means think big!!!

I wish ETSU was in the position to go after that spot in the Sun Belt itself rather than pencil Jax State in there. We SHOULD and CAN be on the level with MTSU and WKU or even better.

(01-26-2012 11:39 AM)BucNut22 Wrote:  

(01-26-2012 11:30 AM)LetsgoBucs Wrote:  I agree with Mister. If we are going to move up to a higher level conference, we have to dominate our current conference. We've never done that in any conference. Not the SoCon, not the ASun. If we're talking about our current level, the SoCon makes more sense because of geography. If we want to move to a higher level than this, we have to have football. Not for revenue reasons, but because there aren't any higher level conferences in the East that are going to have a non-football school. The only conference that is high level without football is the A10, which I agree we won't get into. So we need football as a vehicle. However, I don't see a Sun Belt or a conference like that being a possibility for a long time. We simply aren't good enough at basketball. We have to dominate in basketball without football, or we have to have football and then consistently be the best in whatever conference we would be in. Not just have football, have winning football. That is a long way off. That will require a significant increase in money.

Had Dechellis stayed and we not gotten the boot, that probably happens in the SOCON.

That would have required a significant increase in money for BASKETBALL.

The money required to attract and keep a high profile basketball coach has never been there. It certainly won't be there if there is a football program that limps along sucking every penny away from everything else.

Having a crappy underfunded football program does nothing, well nothing but make everything else crappy.

(01-26-2012 07:21 PM)BuccTiger Wrote:  

(01-26-2012 09:33 AM)TheShadow Wrote:  

(01-26-2012 09:09 AM)etsuBucsFan1988 Wrote:  Forgive me for thinking bigger.

Sorry if it sounded like I was trying to put down any bigger conference ideas, far from it. By all means think big!!!

I wish ETSU was in the position to go after that spot in the Sun Belt itself rather than pencil Jax State in there. We SHOULD and CAN be on the level with MTSU and WKU or even better.

(01-26-2012 11:39 AM)BucNut22 Wrote:  

(01-26-2012 11:30 AM)LetsgoBucs Wrote:  I agree with Mister. If we are going to move up to a higher level conference, we have to dominate our current conference. We've never done that in any conference. Not the SoCon, not the ASun. If we're talking about our current level, the SoCon makes more sense because of geography. If we want to move to a higher level than this, we have to have football. Not for revenue reasons, but because there aren't any higher level conferences in the East that are going to have a non-football school. The only conference that is high level without football is the A10, which I agree we won't get into. So we need football as a vehicle. However, I don't see a Sun Belt or a conference like that being a possibility for a long time. We simply aren't good enough at basketball. We have to dominate in basketball without football, or we have to have football and then consistently be the best in whatever conference we would be in. Not just have football, have winning football. That is a long way off. That will require a significant increase in money.

Had Dechellis stayed and we not gotten the boot, that probably happens in the SOCON.

That would have required a significant increase in money for BASKETBALL.

The money required to attract and keep a high profile basketball coach has never been there. It certainly won't be there if there is a football program that limps along sucking every penny away from everything else.

Having a crappy underfunded football program does nothing, well nothing but make everything else crappy.

Silly rabbit