(01-10-2012 04:27 PM)k5james Wrote:  

(01-10-2012 04:19 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  

(01-10-2012 03:17 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Not really, Wilkie. It's based on speed. Deception allows that speed to overcome their other disadvantages...

Speed is a given, all defense are based on speed and agility.

Not to the degree it is valued in the 3-3-5. More often than not teams running a 3-3-5 will take a 260 lb DL over a 300+lb DL unless he's an absolute freak of nature.

If I was running a 3-3-5 I'd treat the NG position the same as in the 3-4, have a big dude that can swallow up the run. A 300+ lbs NG is a necessity with just three down linemen, IMO.

(01-10-2012 04:28 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  So I missed it by 5, cinbin. Minor details...

Haha classic answer. But seriously, if Jeff Casteel can take that damn defense out of the Big East, it'll be music to my ears.

(01-10-2012 04:40 PM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote:  

(01-10-2012 04:27 PM)k5james Wrote:  

(01-10-2012 04:19 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  

(01-10-2012 03:17 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Not really, Wilkie. It's based on speed. Deception allows that speed to overcome their other disadvantages...

Speed is a given, all defense are based on speed and agility.

Not to the degree it is valued in the 3-3-5. More often than not teams running a 3-3-5 will take a 260 lb DL over a 300+lb DL unless he's an absolute freak of nature.

If I was running a 3-3-5 I'd treat the NG position the same as in the 3-4, have a big dude that can swallow up the run. A 300+ lbs NG is a necessity with just three down linemen, IMO.

That's why the 3-3-5 was invented. It's not a necessity in the defense. If those kinds of players were easy to find there wouldn't be a need for the defense.

(01-10-2012 04:40 PM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote:  

(01-10-2012 04:27 PM)k5james Wrote:  

(01-10-2012 04:19 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  

(01-10-2012 03:17 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Not really, Wilkie. It's based on speed. Deception allows that speed to overcome their other disadvantages...

Speed is a given, all defense are based on speed and agility.

Not to the degree it is valued in the 3-3-5. More often than not teams running a 3-3-5 will take a 260 lb DL over a 300+lb DL unless he's an absolute freak of nature.

If I was running a 3-3-5 I'd treat the NG position the same as in the 3-4, have a big dude that can swallow up the run. A 300+ lbs NG is a necessity with just three down linemen, IMO.

Agree, you need that big NG/NT, plus two other large DTs, and two man cover corner-backs. The other six can be large Safety or smaller LB types. These eight guys have to very fast and can handle man cover in the pass defense.

(01-10-2012 04:51 PM)k5james Wrote:  

(01-10-2012 04:40 PM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote:  

(01-10-2012 04:27 PM)k5james Wrote:  

(01-10-2012 04:19 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  

(01-10-2012 03:17 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Not really, Wilkie. It's based on speed. Deception allows that speed to overcome their other disadvantages...

Speed is a given, all defense are based on speed and agility.

Not to the degree it is valued in the 3-3-5. More often than not teams running a 3-3-5 will take a 260 lb DL over a 300+lb DL unless he's an absolute freak of nature.

If I was running a 3-3-5 I'd treat the NG position the same as in the 3-4, have a big dude that can swallow up the run. A 300+ lbs NG is a necessity with just three down linemen, IMO.

That's why the 3-3-5 was invented. It's not a necessity in the defense. If those kinds of players were easy to find there wouldn't be a need for the defense.

Agree

(01-10-2012 04:51 PM)k5james Wrote:  

(01-10-2012 04:40 PM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote:  

(01-10-2012 04:27 PM)k5james Wrote:  

(01-10-2012 04:19 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  

(01-10-2012 03:17 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Not really, Wilkie. It's based on speed. Deception allows that speed to overcome their other disadvantages...

Speed is a given, all defense are based on speed and agility.

Not to the degree it is valued in the 3-3-5. More often than not teams running a 3-3-5 will take a 260 lb DL over a 300+lb DL unless he's an absolute freak of nature.

If I was running a 3-3-5 I'd treat the NG position the same as in the 3-4, have a big dude that can swallow up the run. A 300+ lbs NG is a necessity with just three down linemen, IMO.

That's why the 3-3-5 was invented. It's not a necessity in the defense. If those kinds of players were easy to find there wouldn't be a need for the defense.

This absolutely true as long as the linebackers are fast enough to cover the run and make up for the smaller size, as you said.

(01-10-2012 05:04 PM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote:  

(01-10-2012 04:51 PM)k5james Wrote:  

(01-10-2012 04:40 PM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote:  

(01-10-2012 04:27 PM)k5james Wrote:  

(01-10-2012 04:19 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  Speed is a given, all defense are based on speed and agility.

Not to the degree it is valued in the 3-3-5. More often than not teams running a 3-3-5 will take a 260 lb DL over a 300+lb DL unless he's an absolute freak of nature.

If I was running a 3-3-5 I'd treat the NG position the same as in the 3-4, have a big dude that can swallow up the run. A 300+ lbs NG is a necessity with just three down linemen, IMO.

That's why the 3-3-5 was invented. It's not a necessity in the defense. If those kinds of players were easy to find there wouldn't be a need for the defense.

This absolutely true as long as the linebackers are fast enough to cover the run and make up for the smaller size, as you said.

Yep, run stunts, gap blitzes, etc and speed at ALL positions, including DL, are what allow the 3-3-5 to be effective against power running teams.

(01-10-2012 01:29 PM)k5james Wrote:  Do any of you guys have any idea where he picked up the 3-3-5? While checking out his bio, I didn't see anywhere where he might have crossed paths with Joe Lee Dunn or Rocky Long.

I believe he learned it from Todd Graham in 2002 when they were co-coordinators. Looks like Casteel, CB coach Lockwood, and DL coach Kirlav are all gone to Arizona. Safety coach Dunlap might be staying. Brian Stewart coming from Houston to be DC.

The most important position in the 3-3-5 defense is NG. Chris Neild is what made last year's defense great for WVU. With him in the middle, occupying 2 or 3 blockers, the other defensive players were free to do whatever...

(01-10-2012 04:05 PM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote:  

(01-10-2012 03:07 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  It's especially effective against running teams. I don't think any school running the 3-3-5 has finished outside the top 50 rush defenses ever...

Haha I hate to be THAT guy, bit but..

http://www.cfbstats.com/2011/leader/nati...ort01.html

How about that, 3 Big East teams in the top 10 for rush defense...

(01-10-2012 07:48 PM)bearcat PACO Wrote:  

(01-10-2012 04:05 PM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote:  

(01-10-2012 03:07 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  It's especially effective against running teams. I don't think any school running the 3-3-5 has finished outside the top 50 rush defenses ever...

Haha I hate to be THAT guy, bit but..

http://www.cfbstats.com/2011/leader/nati...ort01.html

How about that, 3 Big East teams in the top 10 for rush defense...

Probably has something to do with the fact that BE teams didn't run the ball all that well this year. SDSU would have led the conference in rushing...

http://www.cfbstats.com/2011/leader/nati...ort01.html

There have been a lot of BEast teams among the better defenses in the country for some time now...

Well, according to multiple reports, both inside and outside WVU circles, it appears that Jeff Casteel, Bill Kirelawich, and David Lockwood will be leaving WVU to join RR in Arizona. The same sources say the replacements have already been selected, and all recruits are aware of the changes...

However, WVU still has their offensive coaching staff intact, and now Holgorsen can pick his own defensive coaches. Time marches on. The only constant truth is change. It can't be stopped, no matter how much we may wish otherwise...

(01-10-2012 08:02 PM)k5james Wrote:  

(01-10-2012 07:48 PM)bearcat PACO Wrote:  

(01-10-2012 04:05 PM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote:  

(01-10-2012 03:07 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  It's especially effective against running teams. I don't think any school running the 3-3-5 has finished outside the top 50 rush defenses ever...

Haha I hate to be THAT guy, bit but..

http://www.cfbstats.com/2011/leader/nati...ort01.html

How about that, 3 Big East teams in the top 10 for rush defense...

Probably has something to do with the fact that BE teams didn't run the ball all that well this year. SDSU would have led the conference in rushing...

http://www.cfbstats.com/2011/leader/nati...ort01.html

I highly doubt that. There are some very good defenses in the BE. Next year will be the same.

(01-10-2012 08:22 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Well, according to multiple reports, both inside and outside WVU circles, it appears that Jeff Casteel, Bill Kirelawich, and David Lockwood will be leaving WVU to join RR in Arizona. The same sources say the replacements have already been selected, and all recruits are aware of the changes...

However, WVU still has their offensive coaching staff intact, and now Holgorsen can pick his own defensive coaches. Time marches on. The only constant truth is change. It can't be stopped, no matter how much we may wish otherwise...

Sucks for WVU. Casteel is a very good defensive coach.

I think Holgorsen will be able to find a decent replacement. According to all reports, he has. But who hasn't been named yet. The official word on all this is supposed to break tomorrow...

Perhaps the EerInsdier website was right. The folks I knew weren't sure, since it's kind of an obscure blog for most WVU fans...

I'm actually surprised Casteel hasn't taken a head coaching gig by now. His 3-3-5 defenses have been among the best the nation let-alone the Big East and he's obviously a great coach. I wonder how West Virginia has been able to hang on to him this long.

(01-10-2012 08:58 PM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote:  I'm actually surprised Casteel hasn't taken a head coaching gig by now. His 3-3-5 defenses have been among the best the nation let-alone the Big East and he's obviously a great coach. I wonder how West Virginia has been able to hang on to him this long.

It's not from a lack of trying on his part.

I think the fact that WVU picked Holgorsen, without even considering him for the job, was the determining factor in his decision to leave. But I know he was upset at not being considered when Stew was picked as well...

(01-10-2012 10:08 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  I think the fact that WVU picked Holgorsen, without even considering him for the job, was the determining factor in his decision to leave. But I know he was upset at not being considered when Stew was picked as well...

That might have been a small part of it but the straw that broke the camels back was DL coach Bill Kirelawich. Dana wanted him gone regardless of what Jeff did and Jeff wanted to keep him. Dana and Bill have some issues with each other.

The guy who said Casteel picked up the 3-3-5 working with Todd Graham is correct. Might wanna trace his roots with that defense.

Edit to add: Looks like both Locks and Coach K were fired regardless. I loved both of these guys and its a shame to see them go.