(12-13-2011 03:27 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(12-13-2011 03:25 PM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  OK, that's fair. The government creates laws outside of the constitution that limit your exercise of constitutional rights in order to protect us.

Your lack of understanding on what the Bill of rights actually says is rivaled only by your lack of understanding on what the Bible actually says.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/area-ma...es-c,2849/

Guess the same holds true for the Bible

(12-13-2011 03:22 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(12-13-2011 03:18 PM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  Constitutional Right / Limitation
Free Speech / Can't yell fire
Bear Arms / only if you're not a felon, mental health check, waiting period, etc
Vote / only if you can produce an approved piece of paper with your picture on it

None of those limitations are in the Constitution, they're rules created by the government to preserve the greater good.

These are limits to protect the individual rights of others *not* to preserve 'the greater good'.. There is a huge difference there

1) Yell fire in a crowded theater and you have used your speech to endanger my life

2) Felons lose all kind of rights including to vote, to own weapons, ....

3) So that someone does not vote illegally and harm the measure of my legal vote.

A felon, or anyone can buy a gun at a gun show or from a private individual. No id is even necessary. But you are right, felons still cannot vote.

(12-13-2011 07:36 PM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  

Quote:From what I have read most voter fraud is through absentee ballots. How does this fix that problem.

Then why do you care?

Quote:Cases of voter fraud at the polls have been rare. So other than to try and disenfranchise voters, what purpose does this serve? The right seems to have to always call on the boogie man to make their case.

Just because its not reported doesn't mean it doesn't happen. If I don't vote but someone uses my information I would never know and wouldn't report anything.

Quote:The same people demanding to make the voting process more complicated are the same ones complaining about to many laws and regulations already. They are also the same ones restriciting early voting to surpress the turnout. The right must hate this country.

How is showing a DL complicated?

I don't have a problem with early voting.

The right wants to protect the integrity of the vote.

No, I care about fraud. I just do not see the ID as a way to prevent it. Anyone can get a fake ID. In fact I would guess that most illegals have one or more, while many americans may have none.

I am questioning the potential disenfranchising of millions in order to prevent a couple of fradulent votes. And even with an ID law, I can have fradulent votes

(12-13-2011 07:40 PM)dcCid Wrote:  

(12-13-2011 03:27 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(12-13-2011 03:25 PM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  OK, that's fair. The government creates laws outside of the constitution that limit your exercise of constitutional rights in order to protect us.

Your lack of understanding on what the Bill of rights actually says is rivaled only by your lack of understanding on what the Bible actually says.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/area-ma...es-c,2849/

Guess the same holds true for the Bible

How precious. Another leftest confused by reality and fantasy.

I think a much bigger issue for vote fraud is being registered in multiple places, either on purpose or because you move.Especially if accross state lines.

Can still have an unexpired ID form my previous place and also an ID showing my current place. Or a fake ID.

I think most people on this board are probably avid voters. I rarely miss an election (general, primary, special, whatever). I vote in the lobby of the Reeves Center, which is a DC Gov building. They added metal detectors a few years ago. Adds a lot of time to go vote, but still do it. Although we are still complaining about it.

I think we all value the integrity of the vote. Maybe it is just the how and at what cost. Maybe a national voter databse is the answer.

(12-13-2011 07:59 PM)Paul M Wrote:  

(12-13-2011 07:40 PM)dcCid Wrote:  

(12-13-2011 03:27 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(12-13-2011 03:25 PM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  OK, that's fair. The government creates laws outside of the constitution that limit your exercise of constitutional rights in order to protect us.

Your lack of understanding on what the Bill of rights actually says is rivaled only by your lack of understanding on what the Bible actually says.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/area-ma...es-c,2849/

Guess the same holds true for the Bible

How precious. Another leftest confused by reality and fantasy.

I would say the Onion article is reality. Everyone filters information through their paradigm.

Feel a little bad for the Village "Leader" but my mother never had a birth certificate, but had the common sense to know she needed to be able to prove her citizenship way back in the 1970's getting this if you don't wait till you 80 isn't that hard. A few documents signed by relatives and neighbhors who were adults when you were born and you good to go. More concering is someone who can't prove they are a US citizen getting Social Security and Medicare benefits.

As for the "black precincts" being hit hard because minority voters are many times more likely to NOT have proper documentation, so irresponsibility is a reason NOT to have laws?

The US Constitution does define voter requirements and the MAJOR one is being a US citizen. Technology and the population changed a bit since the original defintion. People no longer know every one in their precinct and voters can register on line with no personal verification of who they are. Requiring a STATE ISSUED Photo ID makes everyone be a little more personally responsible and personally accountable. These laws are needed and are a great thing.

(12-13-2011 07:50 PM)dcCid Wrote:  

(12-13-2011 03:22 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(12-13-2011 03:18 PM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  Constitutional Right / Limitation
Free Speech / Can't yell fire
Bear Arms / only if you're not a felon, mental health check, waiting period, etc
Vote / only if you can produce an approved piece of paper with your picture on it

None of those limitations are in the Constitution, they're rules created by the government to preserve the greater good.

These are limits to protect the individual rights of others *not* to preserve 'the greater good'.. There is a huge difference there

1) Yell fire in a crowded theater and you have used your speech to endanger my life

2) Felons lose all kind of rights including to vote, to own weapons, ....

3) So that someone does not vote illegally and harm the measure of my legal vote.

A felon, or anyone can buy a gun at a gun show or from a private individual. No id is even necessary. But you are right, felons still cannot vote.

A felon can not legally buy a gun at a gun show. Buying one there is no more legal than robbing one from a WalMart. Thanks for playing.

Quote:No, I care about fraud. I just do not see the ID as a way to prevent it. Anyone can get a fake ID. In fact I would guess that most illegals have one or more, while many americans may have none.

Voter ID won't prevent it...just slow it down.

Quote:I am questioning the potential disenfranchising of millions in order to prevent a couple of fradulent votes. And even with an ID law, I can have fradulent votes

I don't think the people who don't have ID's vote. I don't think there are millions of people who wouldn't vote because of an ID law. In states where it has been implemented voter turnout has actually increased. Agree to disagree about how many fraudulent votes are cast. I don't see why this is a problem. As long as an ID is made easy to get as long as you provide proof of citizenship who cares. I know who cares...Lib's. They're worried this will hurt their vote.

(12-13-2011 04:53 PM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  

(12-13-2011 04:46 PM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  

(12-13-2011 01:50 PM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  are voting requirements outlined in the Constitution?

Don't you have to be a citizen to vote? Does our constitution protect the rights of non citizens and guarantee them the right to participate in our elections?

How can we prove citizenship?

National ID Card?

Don't need a national ID as A) state IDs are sufficient and B) there is no right to vote in a federal election.

(12-13-2011 07:18 PM)dcCid Wrote:  

(12-13-2011 02:16 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(12-13-2011 01:46 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Study: South Carolina voter ID law hit black precincts hardest

(12-13-2011 01:52 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  As Many As 5 Million Voters Disenfranchised By Voter ID Laws

Assume for the sake of argument (but only for that purpose and none other) that these stories are true. From a public policy standpoint, which is more important--preventing voter fraud or reducing incidents like these? Where in your mind do you draw the line to balance the competing equities appropriately?

Exactly how big a problem is voter fraud?

http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=AkFR...=yfp-t-372

You tell me.

(12-14-2011 09:08 AM)Rebel Wrote:  

(12-13-2011 07:18 PM)dcCid Wrote:  

(12-13-2011 02:16 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(12-13-2011 01:46 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Study: South Carolina voter ID law hit black precincts hardest

(12-13-2011 01:52 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  As Many As 5 Million Voters Disenfranchised By Voter ID Laws

Assume for the sake of argument (but only for that purpose and none other) that these stories are true. From a public policy standpoint, which is more important--preventing voter fraud or reducing incidents like these? Where in your mind do you draw the line to balance the competing equities appropriately?

Exactly how big a problem is voter fraud?

http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=AkFR...=yfp-t-372

You tell me.

C'mon Rebel, you should know this. That is voter REGISTRATION fraud. And you shoud also know that the law requires the registrations to be turned in. I'm sure you don't want people going through the registrations and determining what they think is fake do you? If someone shows up and says they are Mickey Mouse when they aren't and then votes, that is voter fraud.

(12-14-2011 09:53 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(12-14-2011 09:08 AM)Rebel Wrote:  

(12-13-2011 07:18 PM)dcCid Wrote:  

(12-13-2011 02:16 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(12-13-2011 01:46 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Study: South Carolina voter ID law hit black precincts hardest

(12-13-2011 01:52 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  As Many As 5 Million Voters Disenfranchised By Voter ID Laws

Assume for the sake of argument (but only for that purpose and none other) that these stories are true. From a public policy standpoint, which is more important--preventing voter fraud or reducing incidents like these? Where in your mind do you draw the line to balance the competing equities appropriately?

Exactly how big a problem is voter fraud?

http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=AkFR...=yfp-t-372

You tell me.

C'mon Rebel, you should know this. That is voter REGISTRATION fraud. And you shoud also know that the law requires the registrations to be turned in. I'm sure you don't want people going through the registrations and determining what they think is fake do you? If someone shows up and says they are Mickey Mouse when they aren't and then votes, that is voter fraud.

Registration ≠ Voting

Yes, voter registration fraud is shady, but it's not voter fraud.

(12-14-2011 09:53 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(12-14-2011 09:08 AM)Rebel Wrote:  

(12-13-2011 07:18 PM)dcCid Wrote:  

(12-13-2011 02:16 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(12-13-2011 01:46 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Study: South Carolina voter ID law hit black precincts hardest

(12-13-2011 01:52 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  As Many As 5 Million Voters Disenfranchised By Voter ID Laws

Assume for the sake of argument (but only for that purpose and none other) that these stories are true. From a public policy standpoint, which is more important--preventing voter fraud or reducing incidents like these? Where in your mind do you draw the line to balance the competing equities appropriately?

Exactly how big a problem is voter fraud?

http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=AkFR...=yfp-t-372

You tell me.

C'mon Rebel, you should know this. That is voter REGISTRATION fraud. And you shoud also know that the law requires the registrations to be turned in. I'm sure you don't want people going through the registrations and determining what they think is fake do you? If someone shows up and says they are Mickey Mouse when they aren't and then votes, that is voter fraud.

Ask Dino Rossi about voter fraud.

...or Nixon circa 1960.

...or anyone in or around Chicago during the Daley years.

(12-14-2011 10:03 AM)Rebel Wrote:  

(12-14-2011 09:53 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(12-14-2011 09:08 AM)Rebel Wrote:  

(12-13-2011 07:18 PM)dcCid Wrote:  

(12-13-2011 02:16 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Assume for the sake of argument (but only for that purpose and none other) that these stories are true. From a public policy standpoint, which is more important--preventing voter fraud or reducing incidents like these? Where in your mind do you draw the line to balance the competing equities appropriately?

Exactly how big a problem is voter fraud?

http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=AkFR...=yfp-t-372

You tell me.

C'mon Rebel, you should know this. That is voter REGISTRATION fraud. And you shoud also know that the law requires the registrations to be turned in. I'm sure you don't want people going through the registrations and determining what they think is fake do you? If someone shows up and says they are Mickey Mouse when they aren't and then votes, that is voter fraud.

Ask Dino Rossi about voter fraud.

Of course there is no proof of that is there...
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/po...atter.html

And if the 2004 race was truly stolen, it wasn't voter fraud but misconduct by election officials which would in no way be fixed by any sort of voter ID.

No evidence my ass. That election was straight out of the Farley movie "Black Sheep". It's why dry Washington is trying to break apart from the insane moonbats in wet Washington.

(12-14-2011 11:21 AM)Rebel Wrote:  No evidence my ass. That election was straight out of the Farley movie "Black Sheep". It's why dry Washington is trying to break apart from the insane moonbats in wet Washington.

Then where is it? Where is the investigation at?

You can kick and spit all you want Rebel, but the facts just aren't there that voter fraud is a wide-spread epidemic in need of government regulation. Period!