Because you won't invite them. As long as they have a BCS spot they won't split all that money another way. If the did expand, it wouldn't be Memphis, they'll stay in the northeast or fla. Actually, Toledo would have a better shot than Memphis.

Quote:Unless I'm mistaken, the Gator & Tire Bowls have very good attendance. Why would they look for other conferences?

Because they know that the ACC/Big East matchup has only sold out the stadium twice at it's new configuration (73,000 seats....2004 and 2003) while the ACC/SEC matchup in the Peach Bowl has sold out 8 straight times and 12 times in the past 14 years. Granted, it has a lot to do with the Peach Bowl being one of the most competitive bowl games overall (average margin of victory the past 10 years has been 10 points) whereas the Gator is usually a blowout (average margin of victory the past 10 years has been 21 points) The Gator Bowl officials also see that of the BE/ACC matchups that have made the Top 25 in Gator Bowl attendance at current capacity(6), Va Tech accounted for two of those games, with WVU and Notre Dame accounting for the rest. That's 1/3rd of the Big East's best attended Gator Bowls now residing in the ACC.

One thing we do not have is a shortage of bowls.

TopCoog Wrote:adding Memphis is not a remote possibility...

I have to agree on Coog on this.

Maize Wrote:

TopCoog Wrote:adding Memphis is not a remote possibility...

I have to agree on Coog on this.

Yeah, haven't you heard?

Louisville's internet fans will block our entry. :laugh:

Bambu Wrote:

Maize Wrote:

TopCoog Wrote:adding Memphis is not a remote possibility...

I have to agree on Coog on this.

Yeah, haven't you heard?

Louisville's internet fans will block our entry. :laugh:

:D :laugh:

You won't get invited Tiger...its the big EAST.....not the Big mid south. There has never been a scrap of evidence that the Big East is looking at Memphis.

if we do we do, if we dont, their loss.

Quote:There has never been a scrap of evidence that the Big East is looking at Memphis.

I also agree with TopCoog on this. It was pretty clearly stated that Memphis was 'Dismissed' in the Big East minutes. I see no reason why that would have changed since then.

nflsucks Wrote:

Quote:There has never been a scrap of evidence that the Big East is looking at Memphis.

I also agree with TopCoog on this. It was pretty clearly stated that Memphis was 'Dismissed' in the Big East minutes. I see no reason why that would have changed since then.

Never say never. If the BE expands to 12 teams in a few years Memphis will definitely be a candidate.

IMHO, the only expansion in the next year or two would be to add ECU for FB only or Villanova announcing they are going Div 1A in football.

I have read numerous times from fans of Big East schools about the possibility of expanding to 12 teams. But, if you have a BCS autobid, why on earth would you dilute each school's share 50%? There is no way that there are 4 teams out there who would add anything close to the value necessary to financially justify their invite. The revenue sharing would go down significantly per team in football, which is 2/3 of the revenue pie.

Which schools in this supposed new conference (not the fans, who often speak out of emotion, but the administrations), are going to vote to reduce their shares of conference revenue sharing by 1/3 or more, just for the sake of adding 4 teams?

I am simply asking out of interest, a desire to understand. I asked in the past about the economics of adding just one team, i.e. with BCS revenue at $17 million for one game, a 1/9 share is almost $2m per year, who was worth $2m per year. The answers weren't very good. It would be 4 times as bad with 4 invites.

Quote:-- Not trying to pick on you Omnicarrier...but I think this statement is very repesentative of the difference between the urban/northeastern college football fan and the rural southern/mid western one....you guys are there if the program is winning but if there are struggles/coaching problems you tend to stay away...in the rural south/midwest going to college football games is almost like a ritual that we have done every year since our youth and will continue to do for the rest of our lives...I personally can't imagine "going on strike"on the Mountaineers

Jackson, don't know who you are trying to fool, but it sure isn't me.

If the fans' perception of the program being a winner/loser doesn't impact EERs fans then why did you send 40,000 to the Tire Bowl and almost half that many (approx 25,000 was what I remember reading) to the Gator?

Even though the Gator is the more prestigious bowl?

Is it because the perception of the club in the first instance was that it was 'on the winning track' and that it had a great chance of beating Virginia whereas in the second it was perceived to be a disappointing season since BCS Bowl was the expectation and the feeling was there was no way WVU was going to beat FSU?

Also, I challenge you to name a southern/mid-western private school not named Notre Dame that travels as well or supports its teams better than SU.


Cheers,
Neil

The tire bowl is in Charlotte. Once we become bowl eligible why wouldnt the tire bowl want us against an ACC team? Its guaranteed to sell out. When we played in the Peach bowl it was estimated that we brought well over 30,000. We could easily bring more than that to a bowl against an ACC team. The pirate family is large and even if we played in a bowl game up north we would still bring fans because we have a large contingent of alum in the Northeast.

Quote:I asked in the past about the economics of adding just one team, i.e. with BCS revenue at $17 million for one game, a 1/9 share is almost $2m per year, who was worth $2m per year. The answers weren't very good.

There is more to a 9th member than money. A 9th team would allow a 4/4 home away conference schedule in football as well as a 16 game round robin basketball conference schedule (one of the elements that made the old ACC so great). The scheduling ease alone makes a 9th member worth looking into, especially with the 12 game season coming up. Finding 5 1-A OOC games a year doesn't sound very easy.

As for adding 2 million dollars, I don't know enough about TV contracts to make any concrete statements, but I'd imagine the Orlando or Philadelphia market would be very valuable if a decent team resided in those cities. Obviously that's not the case with UCF and/or Temple at the moment, but UCF is making great strides with their facilities and coaches.

UCF could also potentially help the Big East get ties to the Champs Sports Bowl. They would also allow every Big East team a road trip into the Sunshine State (alternating USF/UCF) for recruiting purposes.

Temple has history with the Big East and has traditionally been a good basketball school. Huge market in the league's footprint. I don't think they will ever make the commitment to major football though, but who knows what will happen 5 years down the road?

I won't defend the 12 team suggestion because I simply don't think it will ever happen.

Quote:Jackson, don't know who you are trying to fool, but it sure isn't me.

If the fans' perception of the program being a winner/loser doesn't impact EERs fans then why did you send 40,000 to the Tire Bowl and almost half that many (approx 25,000 was what I remember reading) to the Gator?

Even though the Gator is the more prestigious bowl?

Is it because the perception of the club in the first instance was that it was 'on the winning track' and that it had a great chance of beating Virginia whereas in the second it was perceived to be a disappointing season since BCS Bowl was the expectation and the feeling was there was no way WVU was going to beat FSU?

-- Of course winning and losing affects attendnace #s....but what I am trying to do is illustriate a difference between urban schools/rural schools...Penn St hasn't had a winning record in a few yrs and they are still drawing 80,000 people to happy valley.... ECU has been one of the worst programs in the nation and they are still drawing 30,000 per..Sryacuse is the BEs co champs and there fans are going on strike....I would say there is some kind of cultural difference wouldn't you? And this certinaly just isn't SU....but could apply to BC, Pitt, UC, USF as well....Personally I think that is one of the weaknesses of the football league is that we have too many urban schools... this why I consider Virginia Tech a much bigger loss then BC and why I advocate ECUs entry....to much emphasis is placed on TV markets and not enough on the fan bases schools posses

Quote:Also, I challenge you to name a southern/mid-western private school not named Notre Dame that travels as well or supports its teams better than SU.

-- Purdue

Jackson

Quote:-- Of course winning and losing affects attendnace #s....but what I am trying to do is illustriate a difference between urban schools/rural schools...Penn St hasn't had a winning record in a few yrs and they are still drawing 80,000 people to happy valley.... ECU has been one of the worst programs in the nation and they are still drawing 30,000 per..Sryacuse is the BEs co champs and there fans are going on strike....I would say there is some kind of cultural difference wouldn't you? And this certinaly just isn't SU....but could apply to BC, Pitt, UC, USF as well....Personally I think that is one of the weaknesses of the football league is that we have too many urban schools... this why I consider Virginia Tech a much bigger loss then BC and why I advocate ECUs entry....to much emphasis is placed on TV markets and not enough on the fan bases schools posses

Not to keep picking on you Jackson, but...

PSU is drawing around 100,000, down from around 107,000 as a result of its losing ways. ECU, when it was winning was averaging 41,000 and now its down to 31,000. SU when it was winning was averaging about 47,000 and now its down to 37,000. Seems evident to me that winning and losing obviously has an impact, which you now admit. But interesting that the small private school SU whether winning or losing surpasses small (by public standards) ECU in attendance figures. Perhaps your theory regarding northeastern urban vs. southern/midwestern rural needs to be rethought?

As for ECU's traveling fanbase. Not sure where it got its reputation.

It's Peach Bowl attendance was the 2nd lowest of the 90s and its two consecutive Liberty Bowl appearances (first against Stanford, then against Illinois) drew less than the Liberty Bowl game that immediately followed them - which coincidentally enough featured SU against Houston. And its not as though Houston is considered to have a good traveling fanbase.

Lastly, I consider BC's loss far worse than VT's. Mainly because if there is ever going to be a chance to persuade an ND or a PSU to join a newly created Eastern Conference, they would much prefer a league with BC in it to one with VT. And while I can envision a day where the current bowl system is replaced by a true playoff, I can never envision a day where Blacksburg is more important in terms of viewers and marketability than the city of Boston.

Quote:

Quote: 
Also, I challenge you to name a southern/mid-western private school not named Notre Dame that travels as well or supports its teams better than SU.

-- Purdue

Purdue is a very large public institution with an annual enrollment of over 40,000.


Cheers,
Neil

Quote:PSU is drawing around 100,000, down from around 107,000 as a result of its losing ways. ECU, when it was winning was averaging 41,000 and now its down to 31,000. SU when it was winning was averaging about 47,000 and now its down to 37,000. Seems evident to me that winning and losing obviously has an impact, which you now admit. But interesting that the small private school SU whether winning or losing surpasses small (by public standards) ECU in attendance figures. Perhaps your theory regarding northeastern urban vs. southern/midwestern rural needs to be rethought?

--- I didn't know SU wasn't winning....sure they are down from where they were in the mid 90s...but they are certianly a competive program....what do you think SUs attendance would be it they had 3 straight very bad yrs like ECU has had....if you are BE co champs and only taking in 37,000....what are those #s going to look like if you were 2-9 like ECU?

-- The mere fact that there is only a 6,000 people per game difference between a 2-9 school and the BE co champs should signal some warning bells....If ECU were given BCS access I believe that they will have a VT esque rise in terms of quality of play and attendnace....but that is a topic for another thread

-- As for attendance...sure winning matters...but rural schools usually have a fan base that will stick with them no matter what...for example...I could proably count on two hands all the times in the last 10 yrs a WVU home game dipped below 50,000....inculding some 3-8 and 4-7 yrs

-- And really...its not like Syracuse doesn't have some natural advantages...the Orange are the only major D1 football program in the state if Ny and have a tremondous football history...its seems almost impossbile for this country boy to imagine with all the people in NY state that the Orange only draw 37,000 per....and little old WV with its total population of about a million can usually give WVU about 55,000 per

-- As for student population...Su has about 10,000 undergrads...correct? I will grant you that is low...but one of the advantages to rural schools is they have appeal to people that do not attend the university in question....a very lare % of those who attend WVU games have never stepped foot into a WVU classroom in Morgantown...again SU being the only D1 program in Ny should have a similar appeal but just doesn't

Quote:Lastly, I consider BC's loss far worse than VT's. Mainly because if there is ever going to be a chance to persuade an ND or a PSU to join a newly created Eastern Conference, they would much prefer a league with BC in it to one with VT. And while I can envision a day where the current bowl system is replaced by a true playoff, I can never envision a day where Blacksburg is more important in terms of viewers and marketability than the city of Boston.

-- and in contrast....I can't envison a day when the BC football program will ever be superior to the Hokies...or when college football is more popular in Boston then it is in western Virginia...or BC ever taking more fans on a road/bowl game then VT does

-- Again...in my opinion...if VT were still in the league...we would not be having the probelms with the Gator bowl that we now have and there really wouldn't be any questions about the BCS and if the BE was deserving

-- and just off the top of my head...I would argue that Virginia Tech was probably on TV a fair amount more then Boston College was while in the BE

Quote:Purdue is a very large public institution with an annual enrollment of over 40,000.

-- Ok...how about the Miami Hurricanes

Jackson

omnicarrier,

If you want to look at ECU's Liberty Bowl #'s as to why there were more the year after we went back to back trips even though Illinois beat us bad in 94 but we beat Stanford in 95?
You need to look at the Liberty's #'s the years before ECU went and guess what, ECU helped re-energized the Liberty Bowl to some extent by starting the upward climb in their attendance.

They love ECU in Memphis due to the crowd ECU brings. It would be nice to see ECU back there for the Liberty to prove the above statement. The bars and hotels would love it.

As for the Peach, that was as close to sold out as you can get at the old Fulton County Stadium a few years before moving to the dome AND, it was 3/4 Pirate Purple that day ECU beat NC State. That might explain a difference in #'s compaired to the dome.

I was at all 3 games also to verify that.

I know the Ga Dome was used for the Peach in 94 for sure b/c NC State played Miss State there and I think the dome might have been used in 93 after old Fulton County but not sure.

ECU's Peach Bowl win was Jan1st of 92 at Fulton County not The Dome to explain the lower #'s.

<a href='http://www.peachbowl.com/historymain.shtml#' target='_blank'>http://www.peachbowl.com/historymain.shtml#</a>

Open the above link and it says it was played before the largest crowd in Peach Bowl history at that time and before the Ga Dome which opened the following year so this was the last and largest in Fulton County Stadium.

It was Jan 1st 1992 for the 1991 season with an 11-1 record 9th in the nation.