L-yes Wrote:

Wilkie01 Wrote:I read that, too. But then where would his pay check come from? I think, he was just posturing!

MT is a biytch who placates the basketball schools and his own ego at the expense of football playing programs. I really cant take much more of this clown.

Just remember, it's the presidents/chancellors who have the final decision on conference matters, not the commish. The blame should be spread around accordingly.

Good point.

Quote:Just remember, it's the presidents/chancellors who have the final decision on conference matters, not the commish. The blame should be spread around accordingly.

-- Exactly right...really there should have been a split when during the first BE crisis when the football league formed but the bball onlys fought against taking in the football members who were not already apart of the bball league (WVU, Rutgers, VT and Temple)...the football presidents should have had a you take all of us or were gone stance...but BC and Syracuse weren't ready to take the plunge and leave at that point

-- I am starting to have concerns about whether the current football presidents are on board for the split...the way Omnicarrier described how Uconn and Syracuse were convinced by Tranghese to give the 16 team league a try bothers me....Hopefully the Huskies and Orange can be concinced to leave there BE roots by 2010....One of the nice things about the football league is that UL, UC, USF, WVU and Rutgers don't have much of a BE history so for them leaving won't be a big deal...Pitt has been in the league awhile but is still a football first school..so the Panthers will proably dow what is in the best interst of there football program...again convincing Uconn/Syracuse will proably be the issue

Jackson

Jackson, since that vote has taken place there has been a change at both the President and the AD at Syracuse. I'm not saying that the vote would have been different, but now that there is change who knows.

Quote:-- I am starting to have concerns about whether the current football presidents are on board for the split...the way Omnicarrier described how Uconn and Syracuse were convinced by Tranghese to give the 16 team league a try bothers me....Hopefully the Huskies and Orange can be concinced to leave there BE roots by 2010

Those two schools had the most NCAA units ($$$ to lose by leaving the Big East back then. The money would have gone to the conference (BE) which those two schools would have already left behind, which meant they would have thrown away everything they earned in the tournament. Remember, those two schools have 3 national championships between them and the money from the NCAA units sometimes doesn't come til years later, the way the NCAA has it set up.

I have no doubt that UConn and Syracuse have made sure that an equitable financial arrangement regarding this matter has already been tossed around with the conference as a whole once a split becomes a possiblity in 2010.

Quote:Those two schools had the most NCAA units ($$$ to lose by leaving the Big East back then. The money would have gone to the conference (BE) which those two schools would have already left behind, which meant they would have thrown away everything they earned in the tournament. Remember, those two schools have 3 national championships between them and the money from the NCAA units sometimes doesn't come til years later, the way the NCAA has it set up.

-- That makes a lot of sense...but you must admit the football side of things is going to suffer untill 2010....our TV contract could go down by as much as 1/2....a lot of our bowls are looking elsewhere and if the 12 game season passes that will probably mean 1AA teams appearing on our home schedules which of course will hurt attendance...Uconn and Su will get there units but how much money is that costing everyone else because of the football issues mentioned above?....there has to come a time when football becomes the priority

Jackson

Quote:Jackson1011 Posted on Apr 10 2005, 07:17 PM
-- I am starting to have concerns about whether the current football presidents are on board for the split...the way Omnicarrier described how Uconn and Syracuse were convinced by Tranghese to give the 16 team league a try bothers me....Hopefully the Huskies and Orange can be concinced to leave there BE roots by 2010....One of the nice things about the football league is that UL, UC, USF, WVU and Rutgers don't have much of a BE history so for them leaving won't be a big deal...Pitt has been in the league awhile but is still a football first school..so the Panthers will proably dow what is in the best interst of there football program...again convincing Uconn/Syracuse will proably be the issue

But it wasn't just the bb units. Had the football schools chosen to split there was a real chance that they would have lost the BCS auto-bid immediately. The conference is a signatory on the BCS contract. Mikey T signed it on behalf of the BE conference. The BE without any 1-A football schools would no longer have any legal rights to the privileges granted in the contract.

So, in essence, MT used 'fair play'; bb units; and BCS auto-bid to force Gavitt's 16-team plan for at least a 5-year span. The league will know after three of those years whether or not it is working or if there should be a split. There will be an honest effort to make it work through the 2007-08 season. Come the Spring of 2008, a decision will likely be made.

If it doesn't work, at least the foundation has been established for what should be a reasonably amicable split, not like the Black Weekend when 8 teams bolted from the 16-team WAC to form the Mountain West.

Cheers,
Neil

Quote:But it wasn't just the bb units. Had the football schools chosen to split there was a real chance that they would have lost the BCS auto-bid immediately. The conference is a signatory on the BCS contract. Mikey T signed it on behalf of the BE conference. The BE without any 1-A football schools would no longer have any legal rights to the privileges granted in the contract.

-- I'm not questioning your information...but if that was the case why was there such a strong movement for an all sports league before BC left? I would think some BE football rep would have gotten assurances from someone that the BCS bid would be safe before the 6-0 vote in favor of splitting took place on July 9, 2003 in NJ

-- Again...I totally understand Uconn/Su wanting to stick around to collect there cash.....but as a Eastern/Big East football fan it is very frustrating to see the league office seemingly put football on the backburner once again...thus my desire to see WVU leave the 16 BE alignment as soon as possible...I wouldn't know what to do if West Virginia was actually in a league were football was the #1 priority


Jackson

Quote:-- I'm not questioning your information...but if that was the case why was there such a strong movement for an all sports league before BC left? I would think some BE football rep would have gotten assurances from someone that the BCS bid would be safe before the 6-0 vote in favor of splitting took place on July 9, 2003 in NJ

From the minutes, which I know you have:

"A long discussion ensues about the nature of the BCS, the current contract, the rules regarding our retention of the automatic berth, the anti-trust issue, whether or not a strong basketball conference helps the maintenance of that berth, etc."

In the summation part of those July minutes after they have voted 6-0 for the split, as part of the actions to be taken, they talk about finding out how this action (the split) will affect the BCS automatic berth.

The specific action mentioned later is that Mike T. was to confer with the BCS about the name issue. This indicates that they were concerned if they split and lost the BE name that they would lose the auto berth for the rest of the current contract.

So no, they didn't have any assurances they would keep the BCS automatic bid when they voted 6-0 for the split. In actuality, they thought without Miami they were going to lose it. Remember, this is what the lawsuit is about.

So when Mikey T came back from 'confering' with the BCS he either learned the split would cost the BE its auto berth or he received private assurances the BE would keep its auto berth for the moment but subject to a review after the expansion issues settled down.

In either case, why rush to split if the BCS monies were going to be there for three to five more years? Why not try the 16-team league and not lose any revenue to see what happens? I'm sure this is how Mikey T approached it with UConn. And keep in mind that UConn has invested a lot of $$$ into going 1A so any loss of income is something they need to think on long and hard.

Again, once MT won UConn over, they got Shaw on board (remember he was the one who asked if there were any support for the 16 team league in July) and the rest resulted in what the BE will be starting in 2005-06.



Cheers,
Neil

Quote:From the minutes, which I know you have:

"A long discussion ensues about the nature of the BCS, the current contract, the rules regarding our retention of the automatic berth, the anti-trust issue, whether or not a strong basketball conference helps the maintenance of that berth, etc."

In the summation part of those July minutes after they have voted 6-0 for the split, as part of the actions to be taken, they talk about finding out how this action (the split) will affect the BCS automatic berth.

The specific action mentioned later is that Mike T. was to confer with the BCS about the name issue. This indicates that they were concerned if they split and lost the BE name that they would lose the auto berth for the rest of the current contract.

So no, they didn't have any assurances they would keep the BCS automatic bid when they voted 6-0 for the split. In actuality, they thought without Miami they were going to lose it. Remember, this is what the lawsuit is about.

So when Mikey T came back from 'confering' with the BCS he either learned the split would cost the BE its auto berth or he received private assurances the BE would keep its auto berth for the moment but subject to a review after the expansion issues settled down.

-- Thanks for clearing that up...but let me take this question one step further...if the football schools were worried about there claim to the BCS without the BE name in 2003....how is the BABE going to have claim to it in 2010....we probably won't have the BE name in 2010 either...so how would we retain the BCS when the end of the decade rolls around? Are we hoping that our qualty of football play would impove to such a level where it would be impossible to keep us out? I hate to say it.....but I don't think i would count on that to happen so quickly

Quote:In either case, why rush to split if the BCS monies were going to be there for three to five more years? Why not try the 16-team league and not lose any revenue to see what happens? I'm sure this is how Mikey T approached it with UConn. And keep in mind that UConn has invested a lot of $$$ into going 1A so any loss of income is something they need to think on long and hard.

-- Well if the BCS depended upon staying then we really didn't have any choice...but leaving that issue aside for a moment...This whole situation is very frustrating because its seems like the same song and dance eastern football has been doing for 20 yrs....1980s PSU wants to form an all sports league, BC and Syracuse decline which costs us Penn St...1991-1992..bball onlys don't want to accept all the football memebers into the league, there is talk of the football schools seperating, BC and Syracuse decling which costs us Miami, Virginia tech and Boston College in the long run....again it seems like the same old song and dance with Uconn taking BCs role..I'm just worried that this delay is going to cost us another school

-- And of course it would be nice to have enough football schools in the league to be able to fill out a 12 game football schedule without having to play 1AA teams...but that is a topic for another thread...perhaps some kind of scheduling agreement can be worked out the the academies

Jackson

Quote:- Thanks for clearing that up...but let me take this question one step further...if the football schools were worried about there claim to the BCS without the BE name in 2003....how is the BABE going to have claim to it in 2010....we probably won't have the BE name in 2010 either...so how would we retain the BCS when the end of the decade rolls around? Are we hoping that our qualty of football play would impove to such a level where it would be impossible to keep us out? I hate to say it.....but I don't think i would count on that to happen so quickly

There are no assurances. What happened in 2003 is rather than risk losing the BCS right away, they stayed together in the hopes that they would be part of the next contract. And, since a split is a possibility I am sure the 1A presidents have instructed Mikey T to attempt to have the language of the new contract worded in such a way as they could not remove them from it on the basis of a new name.

One way they could achieve this is by establishing a formula for being eligible for an auto berth so regardless of a name change or your conference not being a signatory on the contract, if your conference meets the formula you get the bid.

As for the frustration you are feeling, as a northeastern college football fan, I do sympathize. But I am able to recognize why certain things never came about.

I am also able to recognize that certain conditions that have prevented an eastern all-sports league from happening to this point are 'in flux' and if certain things start falling into place, one well-motivated individual (a Roy Kramer/Dave Gavitt type) who has JoePa's dream (but excellent people and negotiation skills as well) may be able to bring about the end to our frustration somewhere between 2010-2012.

Who that individual will be is anyone's guess, but the foundations are being laid right now to provide that person.

And if it doesn't come about. Oh well, I can always pine away for further ACC expansion and you can dream of possible SEC expansion.

Cheers,
Neil

Quote:As for the frustration you are feeling, as a northeastern college football fan, I do sympathize. But I am able to recognize why certain things never came about.

I am also able to recognize that certain conditions that have prevented an eastern all-sports league from happening to this point are 'in flux' and if certain things start falling into place, one well-motivated individual (a Roy Kramer/Dave Gavitt type) who has JoePa's dream (but excellent people and negotiation skills as well) may be able to bring about the end to our frustration somewhere between 2010-2012.

-- Its good to hear that the conditions you mentioned are in flux...now if by some miracle we can get Penn St back to be our #9....

Quote:And if it doesn't come about. Oh well, I can always pine away for further ACC expansion and you can dream of possible SEC expansion.

-- Amen to that...although to be fair West Virginia fans have wanted in the SEC a lot longer then SU has wanted in the ACC...so we should get the nod first

Jackson

Cat's_Claw Wrote:If the 12 game season occurs, which is likely, then we're talking about Big East members having to fill FOUR OOC games and that is going to be super tough. Now, you add a football-only member then you only have to fill out 3 OOC games, which is what we have to do now, and that is much easier, especially since the majority of Big East schools have at least one built-in annual OOC rival every year.

Uh, actually that would be a shift from the current four OOC games to five. 8 members in conference = 7 conference games. Same point though, just more severe.