Gray Avenger,Apr 23 2005, 10:01 AM Wrote:[QUOTE=HiddenDragon,Apr 23 2005, 01:10 AM] ....... CUSA is perceived to be a very weak conference......

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Somebody is badly mistaken. The new C-USA, a geographically-sensible, 12-school all-sports conference comprised of a blend of institutions having class, tradition, academic excellence, large media markets and championship potential in every sport will vastly improve perceptions in the next few years.

Let's talk academic excellence shall we. Here's the US News and World Report numbers on the CUSA Schools:
East Carolina - Tier 3
Marshall - not rated (unsure as to why)
Memphis - Tier 4
Southern Miss - Tier 4
Alabama - Birmingham - Tier 3
Central Florida - Tier 4
Houston - Tier 4
Rice - #17 (Tier 1)
Southern Methodist - #71 (Tier 2)
Texas - El Paso - Tier 4
Tulane - # 43 (Tier 1)
Tulsa - # 90 (Tier 2)

Average Ranking is Tier 3 at best for all schools. Average ranking for the 4 Tier 1 & 2 schools: 55.25

Here's the numbers on the Big East Schools:
Rutgers - # 58 (Tier 1)
Villanova - not rated (unsure as to why)
Pitt - # 66 (Tier 2)
Syracuse - # 52 (Tier 1)
Notre Dame - # 18 (Tier 1)
Georgetown - # 25 (Tier 1)
Seton Hall - # 120 (Tier 2)
St. John's - Tier 3
Providence - not rated (unsure as to why)
Connecticut - #66 (Tier 2)
West Virginia - Tier 3
Louisville - Tier 3
Cincinnati - Tier 3
Marquette - # 90 (Tier 2)
DePaul - Tier 3
South Florida - Tier 3

Average Ranking for all 16 schools around Tier 2. Average ranking for the 8 Tier 1 & 2 schools: 61.875

Yes a better average for CUSA for the Average ranking of its Tier 1 & 2 schools by the very skewed US News and World Report numbers. (most people aren't a fan of their rankings because they fail to account for many areas of a school that tend to be more important than SATs and such) However, they have half as many schools in the Tier 1 & 2 rankings as the Big East. Going back to skewed numbers I've seen other listings such as one organization's Top 500 schools in the world where Rutgers is the highest rated Big East school at 44 with Pitt following at 48. The US News and World Report rankings for instance grossly overrate the SEC schools sans for Vanderbilt. I also tend to feel that Rutgers and Pitt are underrated on the list. Rutgers should likely be up about 10 spots while Pitt should be up about 15 spots. Also for some reason Villanova wasn't rated which boggles me because Villanova is a bonafide Tier 1, Top 40 school. I'm also pretty sure that Providence is Tier 2 quality. However, those Tier 3's better get cracking and start moving into Tier 2 territory. It should also be noted that the Big East has no Tier 4s while CUSA has 5 Tier 4s.

Academic excellence as a conference the CUSA definitely doesn't represent that, a handful of your schools do. Academic excellence as a conference in the Big East, the conference has been known for that for sometime and will continue to do so as our Tier 3s aggresively push upward.

Here's a link to the first 100 of the Top 500 list, it should be noted no NCUSA school is ahead of the Big East schools. Personally as a country the Pac 10, Ivy, Big Ten, and Big East schools tend to dominate it. Several high quality ACC schools are on the list as well. It should be noted that none of the departed Big East schools make this section of the list. I'll be the first to admit I'm an elitist about Rutgers perception in the world but I'm from Jersey I know how much people look down on the #44 University in the world here, because they don't care to learn about a place that by far I've been the happiest in my entire life. As for Cincinnati, UC is ranked between 151-203 in the world and between 77 and 101 in the country, so again that says somethng about Cincy not being that weak academically.
<a href='http://ed.sjtu.edu.cn/rank/2004/top500(1-100).htm' target='_blank'>Top 100 universities in the world</a>

cuseroc Wrote:If what you say is correct Catsclaw, its interesting to see the only 2 CUSA schools to beat a BE team in recent years  are both coming to the BE.   I know that USF has also beaten at least 1 BE school too.  If that trend holds, then ECU might be coming to the BE as well since they have beaten a couple BE teams , even though  it hasnt been as recent as Cincy and Louisville and USF. thats a good sign for ECU fans :)

I did some digging, South Florida won @Pitt, they beat UConn, though that was while they were independent (like when UC played them). I agree, that shows that these schools are ready to compete at high level. Cincinnati has played well against Big East and Big Ten schools over the last 10 years or so beating schools like Temple (home and away), Syracuse, @West Virginia, @Virginia Tech, @Boston College, #8 Wisconsin and putting scares in Ohio States and Wisconsin (took them to overtime at their place when they were ranked #17), losing to #24 Purdue by a touchdown, West Virginia by 3, and Syracuse in a close game this year. And we're perceived as the WEAKEST of the 3 incoming schools, so that speaks volumes of the quality coming in.

BCS officials to mull new poll proposals
Web Posted: 04/23/2005 12:00 AM CDT

Tim Griffin
Express-News Staff Writer

Bowl Championship Series officials are weighing offers from several groups to provide rankings that would serve as a new component for the formula that determines which teams play for college football's national championship.

BCS coordinator and Big 12 commissioner Kevin Weiberg said proposals are expected from the National Football Foundation and College Hall of Fame as well as the National Association of Collegiate Directors of Athletics when the BCS meetings begin Monday in Phoenix.

The BCS is looking for a replacement in its championship formula after the Associated Press — whose top 25 was one-third of last season's formula — announced in December that its poll could no longer be used.

The National Football Foundation and College Hall of Fame recently came under the direction of former Big 12 commissioner Steve Hatchell, who has proposed using some 70 former coaches and athletic administrators as pollsters. Hatchell also said that his poll, unlike the AP, would not begin until October.

The National Association of Collegiate Directors has similarly proposed using former athletic administrators as voters. Those would be used along with six current computer polls that help make up the BCS poll.

Weiberg said that replacing the AP poll with a similar ranking system would prove easier than developing a committee structure similar to one used for the NCAA men's and women's basketball tournament.

"I think the options are fairly clear-cut," Weiberg said. "There will be questions of who will vote and what level of credibility is there. I'm not sure any option is a leading candidate at this point until we talk and hear from all the groups."

The commissioners of Division I-A's 11 major conferences and Notre Dame athletic director Kevin White also will discuss new criteria under which league champions automatically qualify when the BCS expands from eight to 10 teams beginning in 2006.

<a href='http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/stories/MYSA042305.8C.FBCbcs.2043d3e03.html' target='_blank'>BCS officials to mull new poll proposals</a>

HiddenDragon Wrote:

cuseroc Wrote:

HiddenDragon Wrote:

TexanMark Wrote:However weak the current NBE is--it is still stronger than the MWC and CUSA.&nbsp; The Big East has more upside than CUSA ever will.&nbsp; Will the Big East within the next five years be in the top 5 conferences in Football?&nbsp; No, but they could&nbsp; get close to #5.&nbsp; In ten years? who knows but

Syracuse, WVU and Pitt are traditonal powers and with Louisville added in will mean one of these schools should emerge as a consistant top 10-15 team.&nbsp; CUSA can develop one hit wonders through fortuitous scheduling and lucky breaks but you will not sustain a top 10-15 team.

This is your own personal opinion and beliefs about your conference. The NBE football has yet to prove they will be better than NCUSA or the NMWC. No one has proven anything yet. It's all hypothetical at the moment. Lets wait until the 2005 season is over to say who's better. Matter of fact, lets wait until the NBE goes to 12 teams before comparing them to CUSA.

Talk is one thing. Playing it on the field is where it matters.

The NBE has already proven its better than CUSA this past year. CUSA was the 9th rated conference last year. And thats with Louisville in CUSA. Why dont you take a look at CUSA's record against the BE last year. You won 0 games. The only folks that think that CUSA is going to even be in the same hemisphere with the BE is fans of CUSA teams. There is noone credible who would be crazy enough to think that except CUSA fans.

U'r incorrect but it really doesn't matter. I don't think UL, UC or USF played in the BE last year and to pull their numbers from a CUSA schedule already dictates a flaw in your opinion.

Again, lets see what happens after the 2005 season is over to see who is better. Right now any talk is just bragging.

And Cat there are advantages and disadvatages to having 8 teams in your conference. In reality, no you can't compare the BE to a conference with 12 teams. It's not even close to being fair.

I'm not dogging the BE. But you guys get really sensitive if you even remotely think someone is.

Don't get so defensive guys. We're just talking.

And again note that I have not once said that I think CUSA is better the BE in this thread.

Am I really incorrect? Did you see the numbers that SQ#1 Posted comparing the conferences? Obviously you did not. Like I said before, CUSA is not even in the same hemisphere as the BE with Louiseville and Cincy, It will be a whole world away when these 2 schools are gone and they will be with the BE. Stop being so delusional. You are like many CUSA fans. You never let facts get in your way. As you can see below, with or without the Ville, Cincy and USF in the BE, there is a huge difference between the BE and CUSA. Like I said before no credible source would ever think that CUSA is better than the BE. Numbers dont lie.

2004 Average BCS
1) B12________39.1
2) ACC (11) __ 39.5
3) PAC-10____46.8
4) B10 _______47.4
5) SEC _______49.8
6) BE (7) _____51.0
7) MWC (8) ___59.0
8) WAC (10) ___59.0
9) C-USA (11) __68.5
10) Sun Belt (9) __91.0
11) MAC (14) ____91.5
Conferences average BCS

Modified for 2005 realignment
2004 Average BCS
1) ACC (12) _______37.92
2) B12____________39.10
3) PAC-10________46.80
4) B10 ___________47.40
5) SEC __________49.80
6) BE (8)_________47.88
7) MWC (9) ______60.56
8) WAC (9) ______69.44
9) C-USA (12) ____78.00
10) Sun Belt (8)____88.33 (only 6 BCS ranking)
11) MAC (12)______92.08


Thanks SQ#1. I am surprised to see the Mac so low.
I think CUSA will continue to be the best non bcs fb playing conference after the MWC.

HiddenDragon Wrote:Again one of many flaws with the BCS.&nbsp; My point is UL, USF, and UC played a CUSA schedule last year.&nbsp; Since CUSA is perceived to be a very weak conference lets see if these schools can put up better numbers in the BE.&nbsp; Other than that, people are boasting about UL, UC and USF numbers that were put up in a weak CUSA football league.

I just showed you that UC and Louisville have competed well against Big East schools in years past and beat them. UC has beaten quality departed Big East schools in recent years (Boston College, and a Virginia Tech squad that went to the Sugar Bowl the year that UC beat them). Louisville goes without saying, and South Florida has shown they can compete, even beat, the big boys.

Wilkie01 Wrote:

knight_01 Wrote:

TexanMark Wrote:

UABGrad Wrote:

cuseroc Wrote:The history of the BE shows that the schools who are in the BE this season have always finished with a couple of teams ranked.

I don't think that statement is accurate for the new line up.

Omni can check the site he has access to and verify or correct me, but the Rich Tell site has for the last 4 years the following teams in the last regular season BCS ratings.

2001 - 17. Syracuse
2002 - 16. WVU 24. USF
2003 - none
2004 - 10. UL

Ok you have to change your paradigm my UAB friend

Miami, VT and BC are all gone

UL, Cinci and USF are in

It will be much easier for Pitt, WVU, UL or Syracuse to go 8-3 or 9-2 (good enough records in the Big East to be ranked) than when they had an auto loss with Miami and two fairly tough games against VT and BC.

If I'm a jerk, shoot me. But the argument you just posted is why people feel the BE doesn't deserve an auto bid. Kind of self defeating isn't it?

Louisville owns BC and So. Miss in recent years!

1998 Louisville 52 Boston College 28

2002 Louisville 20 Southern Miss 17
2001 Louisville 24 Southern Miss 14
2000 Louisville 48 Southern Miss 28

UC hasn't been that bad either, destroying Virginia Tech on their home field 16-0 in 1995, the same year Virginia Tech went to the Sugar Bowl. Cincinnati also beat Boston College on their home field a few years later. And I would have loved to have had Coach Dantonio a few years ago and see what his record would have been against Southern Miss overall. Because he took a UC squad and they went into Hattiesburg like a pack of wild dogs and destroyed Southern Miss, who was ranked #24 at the time I believe. Dantonio's squad also destroyed Miami-OH last year, so it would have been interesting to see Dantonio for more then one year in C-USA. I'm not complaining though! :D

Cat's_Claw Wrote:

HiddenDragon Wrote:Again one of many flaws with the BCS.  My point is UL, USF, and UC played a CUSA schedule last year.  Since CUSA is perceived to be a very weak conference lets see if these schools can put up better numbers in the BE.  Other than that, people are boasting about UL, UC and USF numbers that were put up in a weak CUSA football league.

I just showed you that UC and Louisville have competed well against Big East schools in years past and beat them. UC has beaten quality departed Big East schools in recent years (Boston College, and a Virginia Tech squad that went to the Sugar Bowl the year that UC beat them). Louisville goes without saying, and South Florida has shown they can compete, even beat, the big boys.

And again you didn't play 8 games in the BE last year either.

If the BE is much tougher than CUSA then I would think UC and USF would have some problems adjusting to a tougher conference and playing a full BE schedule. I'm sure you guys welcome the challenge and the BCS money however.