TampaKnight
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It is time: non-AQ, Big East, and lower AQ schools must defect, REFUSE to schedule AQ
This is a wild fantasy, I know.
But anyone who is currently either:
A. in a non-AQ conference,
B. in the Big East, or
C. in an AQ conference, but never wins the conference championships
They need to defect and create a playoff system under the NCAA. There are a couple things people will gripe about on the surface of this...
- It would essentially create three divisions in D-I: FCS-B, FCS-A, and FBS
- No affiliation with the 'big-time' schools
- Risking revenue for fairness
But this would also require that these schools REFUSE, all of them, to schedule these clowns in games. All of those teams would essentially beat up on each other for a bowl game.
I'm REALLY not sure how popular college football truly will be under a defected division. Probably wouldn't change much, maybe it would. Thoughts?
(This post was last modified: 11-18-2011 07:48 AM by TampaKnight.)
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11-18-2011 07:48 AM |
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Jugnaut
Heisman
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RE: It is time: non-AQ, Big East, and lower AQ schools must defect, REFUSE to schedule AQ
(11-18-2011 07:48 AM)TampaKnight Wrote: This is a wild fantasy, I know.
But anyone who is currently either:
A. in a non-AQ conference,
B. in the Big East, or
C. in an AQ conference, but never wins the conference championships
They need to defect and create a playoff system under the NCAA. There are a couple things people will gripe about on the surface of this...
- It would essentially create three divisions in D-I: FCS-B, FCS-A, and FBS
- No affiliation with the 'big-time' schools
- Risking revenue for fairness
But this would also require that these schools REFUSE, all of them, to schedule these clowns in games. All of those teams would essentially beat up on each other for a bowl game.
I'm REALLY not sure how popular college football truly will be under a defected division. Probably wouldn't change much, maybe it would. Thoughts?
In reality, it would be awful. All non-aq teams would instantly become I-AA and be largely forgotten about. =(
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11-18-2011 08:17 AM |
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Captain Bearcat
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RE: It is time: non-AQ, Big East, and lower AQ schools must defect, REFUSE to schedule AQ
I've been thinking for awhile that there's too many teams in D-1A. The MAC, WAC, and Sun Belt need to move down, and the Big Sky and CAA need to move up to create a 3rd division. For that matter, there's WAY too many teams in D-1 basketball.
I think the solution is to increase the required number of sports a school must sponsor to compete at the highest level. It's currently 14; it should be 30. This will make D-1 too expensive for the lower teams to manage, and they will be forced to drop down. In addition, it will have the added benefit of siphoning off some of the football revenue to non-football sports, making college sports as a whole more healthy.
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11-18-2011 08:29 AM |
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ECUPirated
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RE: It is time: non-AQ, Big East, and lower AQ schools must defect, REFUSE to schedule AQ
I posted the same thing a few months back
I am sure if the BCS/NCAA sat down together and really thought things out that there could be a system that is equitable to all teams and still allows for the bowls to be distributed among separate divisions with playoffs included.
(This post was last modified: 11-18-2011 08:38 AM by ECUPirated.)
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11-18-2011 08:36 AM |
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goodknightfl
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RE: It is time: non-AQ, Big East, and lower AQ schools must defect, REFUSE to schedule AQ
They already have a 1aa. No need for 2 of them.
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11-18-2011 08:43 AM |
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Rebel
Unregistered
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RE: It is time: non-AQ, Big East, and lower AQ schools must defect, REFUSE to schedule AQ
Why would the Big East? They have an AQ.
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11-18-2011 08:44 AM |
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b0ndsj0ns
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RE: It is time: non-AQ, Big East, and lower AQ schools must defect, REFUSE to schedule AQ
(11-18-2011 08:29 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote: I've been thinking for awhile that there's too many teams in D-1A. The MAC, WAC, and Sun Belt need to move down, and the Big Sky and CAA need to move up to create a 3rd division. For that matter, there's WAY too many teams in D-1 basketball.
I think the solution is to increase the required number of sports a school must sponsor to compete at the highest level. It's currently 14; it should be 30. This will make D-1 too expensive for the lower teams to manage, and they will be forced to drop down. In addition, it will have the added benefit of siphoning off some of the football revenue to non-football sports, making college sports as a whole more healthy.
The solution is to increase the attendance requirement to remain FBS and actually enforce it. If you can't average over 20k per game of "real" attendance you don't deserve to be at this level.
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11-18-2011 09:38 AM |
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HuskiemobileMan
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RE: It is time: non-AQ, Big East, and lower AQ schools must defect, REFUSE to schedule AQ
(11-18-2011 09:38 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote: (11-18-2011 08:29 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote: I've been thinking for awhile that there's too many teams in D-1A. The MAC, WAC, and Sun Belt need to move down, and the Big Sky and CAA need to move up to create a 3rd division. For that matter, there's WAY too many teams in D-1 basketball.
I think the solution is to increase the required number of sports a school must sponsor to compete at the highest level. It's currently 14; it should be 30. This will make D-1 too expensive for the lower teams to manage, and they will be forced to drop down. In addition, it will have the added benefit of siphoning off some of the football revenue to non-football sports, making college sports as a whole more healthy.
The solution is to increase the attendance requirement to remain FBS and actually enforce it. If you can't average over 20k per game of "real" attendance you don't deserve to be at this level.
What does attendance have to do with anything? Should the NCAA do this with all sports? Think this will hold up in court as soon as the NCAA tries to kick somone out?
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11-18-2011 09:42 AM |
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b0ndsj0ns
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RE: It is time: non-AQ, Big East, and lower AQ schools must defect, REFUSE to schedule AQ
(11-18-2011 09:42 AM)HuskiemobileMan Wrote: (11-18-2011 09:38 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote: (11-18-2011 08:29 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote: I've been thinking for awhile that there's too many teams in D-1A. The MAC, WAC, and Sun Belt need to move down, and the Big Sky and CAA need to move up to create a 3rd division. For that matter, there's WAY too many teams in D-1 basketball.
I think the solution is to increase the required number of sports a school must sponsor to compete at the highest level. It's currently 14; it should be 30. This will make D-1 too expensive for the lower teams to manage, and they will be forced to drop down. In addition, it will have the added benefit of siphoning off some of the football revenue to non-football sports, making college sports as a whole more healthy.
The solution is to increase the attendance requirement to remain FBS and actually enforce it. If you can't average over 20k per game of "real" attendance you don't deserve to be at this level.
What does attendance have to do with anything? Should the NCAA do this with all sports? Think this will hold up in court as soon as the NCAA tries to kick somone out?
I think there are too many teams in FBS currently. Maybe increasing the number of sports required would be a better idea, but personally I like attendance, because its frustrating to watch teams with 5k people in the stands on a consistent basis.
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11-18-2011 10:05 AM |
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TampaKnight
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RE: It is time: non-AQ, Big East, and lower AQ schools must defect, REFUSE to schedule AQ
I am actually loving that total sports requirement. It helps spread the funding to sports and athletes that earned their spot on those teams. Football and basketball may be the most popular sports, but just like ANY sport, their importance should be eclipsed by academia because these are universities, not sports clubs.
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11-18-2011 10:07 AM |
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Frank the Tank
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RE: It is time: non-AQ, Big East, and lower AQ schools must defect, REFUSE to schedule AQ
This would be like the AQ conferences holding a straight flush in poker and then watch the non-AQ conferences go "all-in" on a pair of sixes. The OP is playing right into the hands of the power conferences - they would LOVE this! The power conferences would fall all over themselves to create a separate super-division and just play against each other in all sports (including basketball, so they have their own power school tournament that excludes all of the small schools), but they'd probably face way too much pushback politically and legally if they were the ones initiating the move. If the other conferences VOLUNTARILY split off, though? Wow! Jim Delany and Mike Slive would help the non-AQ schools pack their bags.
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11-18-2011 11:28 AM |
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b0ndsj0ns
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RE: It is time: non-AQ, Big East, and lower AQ schools must defect, REFUSE to schedule AQ
(11-18-2011 11:28 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote: This would be like the AQ conferences holding a straight flush in poker and then watch the non-AQ conferences go "all-in" on a pair of sixes. The OP is playing right into the hands of the power conferences - they would LOVE this! The power conferences would fall all over themselves to create a separate super-division and just play against each other in all sports (including basketball, so they have their own power school tournament that excludes all of the small schools), but they'd probably face way too much pushback politically and legally if they were the ones initiating the move. If the other conferences VOLUNTARILY split off, though? Wow! Jim Delany and Mike Slive would help the non-AQ schools pack their bags.
Yeah I don't really know the answer to improving our situation, but refusing to play them or splitting off certainly isn't it.
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11-18-2011 11:32 AM |
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arkstfan
Sorry folks
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RE: It is time: non-AQ, Big East, and lower AQ schools must defect, REFUSE to schedule AQ
The NCAA supports nearly 90 championships across three divisions and one sub-division and semi-regulates post-season in another sub-division.
In only one instance does the organization believe attendance is relevant, Division I football. And even then it is not the controlling factor. There are schools in FCS that meet FBS attendance standards but are FCS because they don't schedule 5 home FBS games, don't play the minimum 8 FBS games total, may not sponsor the required 16 sports or may not award the required 200 full time equivalencies.
For all I know there is a school out there averaging 12,000 a game that grosses $180,000 in ticket revenue per game while another meets the standard and grosses $80,000. Which is more fit for FBS based on revenue?
The attendance criteria is a holdover from another time. Back in 1978 when Division I was split into I-A and I-AA to be I-A you had to sponsor a minimum number of sports, however there were a handful of schools deemed deserving that did not meet the standard. So an exception was created. If you had a 30,000 seat stadium you could average 17,000 home once in four years, or 20,000 home/away once in four years or if your stadium was smaller you could average 17,000 home over four years or 20,000 home/away over four years and stay in I-A or be a member of a conference where more than half the schools met the attendance standard.
At the end of the 1981 season, schools wishing to share the NCAA TV contract with fewer schools amended the rule. What had been an exception to remain I-A, became the criteria for all of I-A.
Two years later the Supreme Court struck down the TV contract.
The attendance criteria that people believe is so important to the integrity of FBS football and is what deems schools worthy of that status was created as way for programs that weren't making the financial committment to having a broad-based athletic department to stay in despite that lack of committment if they drew crowds or at least played schedules featuring people who played before large crowds.
It was never intended to be the measure of who was worthy. The fact is that attendance is the only factor of membership that the schools have zero control over (unless they have to manipulate the numbers).
Throughout the whole of the NCAA, divisional membership is a function of what sort of program the school wants.
If they want to offer sports but not give athletic-ability based aid, they play Division III.
If they want offer sports and give a limited amount of aid to control costs, they play Division II.
To be Division I they must offer a minimum number of sports and award a minimum percentage of the maximum allowed aid.
Between FBS and FCS there are differences in minimum sport sponsorship rules and minimum scholarships awarded along with differences in the maximum amount of football aid.
The attendance criteria is an anachronism that at best only serves as a way to temper a schools ability to spend itself silly. The thing is there are institutions that play high caliber basketball that is well supported that can take the profits from basketball and fund FBS football if they so desire except for the attendance thing.
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11-18-2011 01:03 PM |
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Capital Pirate
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RE: It is time: non-AQ, Big East, and lower AQ schools must defect, REFUSE to schedule AQ
(11-18-2011 11:28 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote: This would be like the AQ conferences holding a straight flush in poker and then watch the non-AQ conferences go "all-in" on a pair of sixes. The OP is playing right into the hands of the power conferences - they would LOVE this! The power conferences would fall all over themselves to create a separate super-division and just play against each other in all sports (including basketball, so they have their own power school tournament that excludes all of the small schools), but they'd probably face way too much pushback politically and legally if they were the ones initiating the move. If the other conferences VOLUNTARILY split off, though? Wow! Jim Delany and Mike Slive would help the non-AQ schools pack their bags.
This ^^^^^
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11-18-2011 02:41 PM |
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MinerEric
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RE: It is time: non-AQ, Big East, and lower AQ schools must defect, REFUSE to schedule AQ
Too many schools.
Too much money in it.
Too many large markets.
What is the NCAA going to do without a around of 64 in basketball?
(11-18-2011 08:17 AM)Jugnaut Wrote: (11-18-2011 07:48 AM)TampaKnight Wrote: This is a wild fantasy, I know.
But anyone who is currently either:
A. in a non-AQ conference,
B. in the Big East, or
C. in an AQ conference, but never wins the conference championships
They need to defect and create a playoff system under the NCAA. There are a couple things people will gripe about on the surface of this...
- It would essentially create three divisions in D-I: FCS-B, FCS-A, and FBS
- No affiliation with the 'big-time' schools
- Risking revenue for fairness
But this would also require that these schools REFUSE, all of them, to schedule these clowns in games. All of those teams would essentially beat up on each other for a bowl game.
I'm REALLY not sure how popular college football truly will be under a defected division. Probably wouldn't change much, maybe it would. Thoughts?
In reality, it would be awful. All non-aq teams would instantly become I-AA and be largely forgotten about. =(
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11-18-2011 02:50 PM |
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ECUPirated
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RE: It is time: non-AQ, Big East, and lower AQ schools must defect, REFUSE to schedule AQ
(11-18-2011 11:28 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote: This would be like the AQ conferences holding a straight flush in poker and then watch the non-AQ conferences go "all-in" on a pair of sixes. The OP is playing right into the hands of the power conferences - they would LOVE this! The power conferences would fall all over themselves to create a separate super-division and just play against each other in all sports (including basketball, so they have their own power school tournament that excludes all of the small schools), but they'd probably face way too much pushback politically and legally if they were the ones initiating the move. If the other conferences VOLUNTARILY split off, though? Wow! Jim Delany and Mike Slive would help the non-AQ schools pack their bags.
It's happening anyway, it might as well be on our terms.
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11-18-2011 02:54 PM |
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ecuacc4ever
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RE: It is time: non-AQ, Big East, and lower AQ schools must defect, REFUSE to schedule AQ
(11-18-2011 08:29 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote: I've been thinking for awhile that there's too many teams in D-1A. The MAC, WAC, C-USA and Sun Belt need to move down, and the Big Sky, MVC, SoCon and CAA need to move up to create a 3rd division.
FTFY. Great suggestion.
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11-18-2011 03:43 PM |
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arkstfan
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RE: It is time: non-AQ, Big East, and lower AQ schools must defect, REFUSE to schedule AQ
I will disagree with Frank on this.
No. They won't love it. They will be mad as hell. Getting three or four non-conference wins by purchasing them is essential to the core business model. Ticket sales, donations, and sponsorships far outweigh television revenue. If forced into a scenario where scheduled have to be toughened and more road games have to be played they will find a solution.
The simplest solution is to go back to the 1977 and before era and just have one level of Division I football, change the scholarship requirements so that all of the high scholarship FCS schools are now BCS, amend the rules to provide that FBS schools offering fewer than 75 scholarships can have a playoff and everyone rolls along on their merry way.
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11-18-2011 03:54 PM |
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99Tiger
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RE: It is time: non-AQ, Big East, and lower AQ schools must defect, REFUSE to schedule AQ
(11-18-2011 07:48 AM)TampaKnight Wrote: This is a wild fantasy, I know.
But anyone who is currently either:
A. in a non-AQ conference,
B. in the Big East, or
C. in an AQ conference, but never wins the conference championships
They need to defect and create a playoff system under the NCAA. There are a couple things people will gripe about on the surface of this...
- It would essentially create three divisions in D-I: FCS-B, FCS-A, and FBS
- No affiliation with the 'big-time' schools
- Risking revenue for fairness
But this would also require that these schools REFUSE, all of them, to schedule these clowns in games. All of those teams would essentially beat up on each other for a bowl game.
I'm REALLY not sure how popular college football truly will be under a defected division. Probably wouldn't change much, maybe it would. Thoughts?
Sorry, you'd be giving them exactly what they want. They would get their own, highly profitable, extremely powerful subdivision WITHOUT having to break away because the schools not in the SEC, B1G, B12, PAC12, and ACC would have essentially relegated themselves to a lower subdivision.
To put it into historical context, you're suggesting Rosa Parks should have just not used the bus instead of refusing to move to the back.
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11-18-2011 04:15 PM |
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AllPtsBulletin
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RE: It is time: non-AQ, Big East, and lower AQ schools must defect, REFUSE to schedule AQ
(11-18-2011 11:28 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote: This would be like the AQ conferences holding a straight flush in poker and then watch the non-AQ conferences go "all-in" on a pair of sixes. The OP is playing right into the hands of the power conferences - they would LOVE this! The power conferences would fall all over themselves to create a separate super-division and just play against each other in all sports (including basketball, so they have their own power school tournament that excludes all of the small schools), but they'd probably face way too much pushback politically and legally if they were the ones initiating the move. If the other conferences VOLUNTARILY split off, though? Wow! Jim Delany and Mike Slive would help the non-AQ schools pack their bags.
Those other schools would be signing their death warrants doing that.
Some may look at it as "buying wins" (that is incorrect), but all those non-AQs that support their programs by taking $800,000 to get their asses kicked by visiting Ohio Stadium (see any Ohio-based MAC school) or most any Big 10 or SEC school just closed their athletics facilities if this happened.
Don't this this works out if a Sun Belt school has to make a roadie to Boone, NC.
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11-18-2011 04:19 PM |
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