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People: learn to distinguish between school prestige and getting a quality education
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miko33 Offline
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Post: #1
People: learn to distinguish between school prestige and getting a quality education
Way too many people are getting their undies tied in knots over academic rankings for schools and a person's ability to find a quality education at any post high school institution. For most people, it does not matter where you go to school. What matters is what efforts you put into school in order to maximize your learning experience. Kids have many different reasons for choosing schools, but IMO the most informed decision is going to be based on multiple factors that will be weighted according to the views of the prospective student. Geography and Cost will likely be the 2 heaviest weighted determinants for most of us and our kids when that time comes. Also, will the student do better in an urban setting or will he/she flourish in a rural setting. Does the student have a specific field of study already in mind or at least a very short list of interests or is the student still trying to figure out what he/she wants to major in? So in reality, most students will be selecting the best school that they can get into - depending on what they want to study - that the student will be able to afford and is reasonably close to home.

Let's put this into perspective. Unless you have life figured out and you realize that you MUST become an investment banker working on Wall Street, then you will be limited to going after schools like Penn's Wharton School of Business to ultimately get your MBA. Otherwise, the vast majority of us has a good bit of latitude with selecting where we go to school. The most important thing to remember: The best school for a student is the one that will inspire him/her to maximize his/her potential and to learn everything they can.

Now that is my view on individual schools from a personal standpoint. When I provide an opinion on why I think this school will or will not get into a conference or if I think academics matter in conference affiliation, it does not mean that I think your school is a POS institution that should be swallowed up into the bowels of the earth. I am only providing an opinion on what I think the university presidents and prominent boosters will want for associations with their schools. I too care about which institutions my school associates with. It's not because I think my school is better - I care only because if my school can benefit academically and athletically by associating with certain schools, then Pitt needs to shoot for that. But I have no control over what decisions my school makes or what the leadership believes are beneficial associations for my school. All I know is that based on the past 10 years, the leadership at my school has done very well with raising the overall academic quality of the institution. Therefore, I trust their judgement when it comes to conference affiliation because of all of the potential advantages it may garner by the associations.
(This post was last modified: 11-03-2011 12:51 PM by miko33.)
11-03-2011 12:47 PM
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Wilkie01 Offline
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Post: #2
RE: People: learn to distinguish between school prestige and getting a quality education
I agree Mike. I was a corporate trainer of management trainees. Ivy League, ACC and Big 10 grads never performed any better than big state or small private school students. It varied on who was the best, no school had an edge in my opinion, it was clearly on the hire, not their universities. 04-cheers
11-03-2011 01:09 PM
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liberty1959 Offline
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RE: People: learn to distinguish between school prestige and getting a quality education
:towel: My son is in his senior year in high school,and has visited Colleges from Colorado,Texas,Florida, Virginia,and North Carolina.According to Forbes,or News and World Report the rankings can vary that why it goes back to what you said the student putting in the effort!Thanks!!
11-03-2011 01:18 PM
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chrisharper80 Offline
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RE: People: learn to distinguish between school prestige and getting a quality education
Agree 100%...schools were created for different purposes. However, I have seen some very inflammatory statements made on this board. If you say another school's academics are "trash" or some other denigrating statement, then don't expect a friendly response. People understand that Boise or WVU is not Harvard, nor was it ever intended to be. But that doesn't mean some very bright and successful people did not go to school there. People need to show some class. If some of the things said on this forum were said in person, fights would break out.
11-03-2011 01:54 PM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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RE: People: learn to distinguish between school prestige and getting a quality education
Agreed, in general. But only if you're a remarkable self-motivator.

I have found that going to a *good* school (as I did for my undergraduate) challenges you to grow and improve yourself much more than going to an lower ranked school (as I did for my masters degree). Unless you're that rare person who completely ignores how those around you are doing, you're likely cheating yourself if you choose to go to a school that's *easier* than you are capable of getting into.
11-03-2011 02:21 PM
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TailGator Offline
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RE: People: learn to distinguish between school prestige and getting a quality education
Saying that a school would never go to another conference because of academics, is fightin' words. If you bash the academics of other institutions like WVU or the members of the SEC, you better be able to back it up with legitimate empirical evidence. If you're bashing these institutions, chances are that you know nothing about them or their contributions to the world.
(This post was last modified: 11-03-2011 02:27 PM by TailGator.)
11-03-2011 02:27 PM
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HP-TBDPITL Offline
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RE: People: learn to distinguish between school prestige and getting a quality education
I have two questions....Do you have to be a prestigious school to play College Football at the highest level?

And...Aren't certain schools using their "admissions standards" as a recruiting advantage over those that can't/aren't as selective even though they get kids in on special waivers?
11-03-2011 02:28 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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RE: People: learn to distinguish between school prestige and getting a quality education
(11-03-2011 02:28 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  I have two questions....Do you have to be a prestigious school to play College Football at the highest level?

Not an outright requirement, but there's a strong correlation. The most valuable schools are disproportionately public flagships, which generally speaking are more prestigious than their in-state brethren. It also depends upon the conference. The Big Ten, ACC and Pac-12 stress academic fits (or at least want to make the most money while maintaining academic fits at the same time). The Big East is simply trying to survive as an AQ conference, so their ability to be picky for academic reasons is much more limited.

Quote:And...Aren't certain schools using their "admissions standards" as a recruiting advantage over those that can't/aren't as selective even though they get kids in on special waivers?

Yes, there's no question about it. Look at UNC, for example. That's one of the toughest public schools to get into in the country. Yet, the standards are vastly different for athletes (see the football scandal this past year) even as they're recruited on getting a Carolina education. You could say the same at Michigan, USC, UCLA and Notre Dame as highly-rated schools that will still effectively take any top athlete that passes the minimum ACT/SAT requirements while also selling the prestige of their diplomas (assuming that they ever graduate).
(This post was last modified: 11-03-2011 02:49 PM by Frank the Tank.)
11-03-2011 02:47 PM
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dcCid Offline
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RE: People: learn to distinguish between school prestige and getting a quality education
(11-03-2011 02:47 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(11-03-2011 02:28 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  I have two questions....Do you have to be a prestigious school to play College Football at the highest level?

Not an outright requirement, but there's a strong correlation. The most valuable schools are disproportionately public flagships, which generally speaking are more prestigious than their in-state brethren. It also depends upon the conference. The Big Ten, ACC and Pac-12 stress academic fits (or at least want to make the most money while maintaining academic fits at the same time). The Big East is simply trying to survive as an AQ conference, so their ability to be picky for academic reasons is much more limited.

Depends on how you define prestigious. In revers you can be a prestigious school and not play college football at the highest level (IVY, Duke). But if prestigious equates to public flagship, then I agree there is a correlation.


Quote:And...Aren't certain schools using their "admissions standards" as a recruiting advantage over those that can't/aren't as selective even though they get kids in on special waivers?

Yes, there's no question about it. Look at UNC, for example. That's one of the toughest public schools to get into in the country. Yet, the standards are vastly different for athletes (see the football scandal this past year) even as they're recruited on getting a Carolina education. You could say the same at Michigan, USC, UCLA and Notre Dame as highly-rated schools that will still effectively take any top athlete that passes the minimum ACT/SAT requirements while also selling the prestige of their diplomas (assuming that they ever graduate).

Agree they do, but the NCAA has made movement to improve this in the past 20 years. I remember a NCAA Tournament game in the 80’s between Duke and nave (David Robinson era) where the TV announcer stated that this is probably the only game n the tournament where all the players can actually spell their major
11-03-2011 03:21 PM
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nuftw Offline
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RE: People: learn to distinguish between school prestige and getting a quality education
(11-03-2011 02:47 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(11-03-2011 02:28 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  I have two questions....Do you have to be a prestigious school to play College Football at the highest level?

Not an outright requirement, but there's a strong correlation. The most valuable schools are disproportionately public flagships, which generally speaking are more prestigious than their in-state brethren. It also depends upon the conference. The Big Ten, ACC and Pac-12 stress academic fits (or at least want to make the most money while maintaining academic fits at the same time). The Big East is simply trying to survive as an AQ conference, so their ability to be picky for academic reasons is much more limited.

Quote:And...Aren't certain schools using their "admissions standards" as a recruiting advantage over those that can't/aren't as selective even though they get kids in on special waivers?

Yes, there's no question about it. Look at UNC, for example. That's one of the toughest public schools to get into in the country. Yet, the standards are vastly different for athletes (see the football scandal this past year) even as they're recruited on getting a Carolina education. You could say the same at Michigan, USC, UCLA and Notre Dame as highly-rated schools that will still effectively take any top athlete that passes the minimum ACT/SAT requirements while also selling the prestige of their diplomas (assuming that they ever graduate).

I don't think Notre Dame deserves to be on that list considering their 90+% graduation rate. They clearly aren't allowing too many athletes who don't have a chance at graduating into the school. The others graduate around 70% except UCLA, which graduates ~50%.
11-03-2011 05:29 PM
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